From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #306 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, December 21 2004 Volume 04 : Number 306 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Why did Xena keep Gbrielle around? [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] BIG XENA happening this January [cr her - who wasn't intimidated by her and who liked her as a person, not as a > warrior or even a beautiful woman. Maybe what drew Xena to Gabrielle was > that > the girl never afraid of her >> Yep, I'm with you there. > I also don't quit know where we get the impression Xena was some kind of > loner > who suddenly and explicably decides she needs a companion. Xena never was a > loner. She was consistently picking up lovers and companions - Caesar, > Millia, Borias, Lao Mao, Cyane, Alti, Akemi, Marcus, Draco, Thalia (Animal > Attraction), etc. Apparently Xena craved companionship even when evil. Of > course she usually sabotaged the best of these relationships or chose to > trust > the wrong people. This was not a woman who wanted to be alone in the world.> > > I have a different take on that. "Loner" to me doesn't necessarily mean not having or wanting people in their lives, but someone who doesn't need them to the point of changing who she is too much, just to accommodate others. It means someone who gets her energy from inside, rather than having to seek comfort from others, who isn't afraid of being alone in the world to the point of having others around no matter what. I didn't see Xena as craving companionship, so much as not denying herself the benefits it could bring -- physically, to meet her goals, to kick back and relax sometimes, to learn. I agree that, until her break with her army, it appears that Xena was usually in the company of others. But she did not choose to have a relationship with them in the same way as Gabs. In most cases, her initial attraction to them was because of what she could get from them (Borias, Cyane, Alti, Caesar, Akemi), because they were fighting buddies (Marcus, Draco, Thalia), or after a happenstance meeting that she did not seek (M'Lila, Lao Ma). I'm not saying she didn't love, admire or want friendship with some of them. But she did appear to be "consistently picking up" people more because the situation demanded, than because she had to have them around her on a long-term basis. to me, Herc was the first person who might've been a "mature" relationship, in that it was driven by a more positive concept of her capabilities and needs, more than by pain, ambition, or practicality. She could've partnered with him and probably trusted him with parts of herself she'd never shared (or realized she had or needed to share) with any of those mentioned above -- Lao Ma included. Yet she chose to go off on her own, no doubt committed to a life of relative solitude, once she'd left behind those from her old life. After she'd made amends with her mother, I don't think she'd have stayed around too long - -- Gabs or no Gabs. Who she was, what she had to do, was always more important than her need to be with someone. Gabs was unique in that she was not connected to Xena's warrior life as fighting buddy, mentor, hostage, etc. She did not speak the language of war or power. She required Xena to think about and sometimes alter what she was doing, to think about Gabs as a person beyond what she could give. Gabs helped draw Xena out of herself, while respecting her for herself. Gabs became a friend worth keeping, worth having along on what was otherwise a solitary internal journey. In the end, Xena still chose who she was and what she had to do, over companionship. I didn't say "over love," because I see the concept as encompassing many dimensions. I've disagreed with the notion that Xena was "always" trying to leave Gabs behind. I believe she came to see Gabs as part of her life -- her family. However, I do believe Xena could have gone on by herself -- perhaps not as happy or content -- without losing a beat. Someone who craves companionship would have a much harder time doing that. In that sense, I do think Xena was basically a loner. In her own way, I believe Gabs was too. - -- Ife > The trouble of course was that Xena was plagued by guilt over Lyceus's > death > and anger over her mother's rejection and was self destructive. Although > she > seemed be on the fast track to ruler of the world she always did manage to > screw things up. She could have ruled Chin but betrayed Lao Mao, she could > have had a place of honor with the Amazons but betrayed them, she and Borias > might have conquered Greece but she turned against him at the moment victory > was at hand. In the Norse country when might have had great power as Odin's > lover and the leader of the Valkary yet she ruined it by going after the > ring > making sure she would fail in that endeavor by sparing the one person who > had > the will and skill to stop her. Xena spent most of "evil" days failing > because she could not trust people who really cared for her. When Xena > reformed she finally did something right she trusted a chatty girl who cared > for her. Gabrielle's faith in Xena's goodness and honor made Xena become > the > person Gabrielle believed her to be - a noble hero. > > > CherylA > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 08:07:41 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] BIG XENA happening this January On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:02, Xena Torres wrote: > For which statement cr? ;) > I find we agree a lot when it comes to production value. ;) > BATTLE ON XENA! > > Xena Torres: Warrior Writer > http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome Cornball writing, too many longing gazes.... :) cr > From: cr > > >To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org > >Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] BIG XENA happening this January > >Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 09:35:25 +1300 > > > >On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 05:05, Xena Torres wrote: > > > As much as I would love a movie, I can't imagine one. Bringing Xena > > > back > > > >to > > > > > life would ruin FIN (which I love) and you can't do a Xena movie > > > without Ares. :( > > > And, frankly, while "When Fates Collide" had an interesting idea, I was > > > >not > > > > > really impressed with the episode. The writing was a little cornball, > > > >and > > > > > their was just too much longing gazes - it got a little borning (this > > > is XENA! - kick some butt!) > > > >And I thought that was just me :) > > > >cr > >... relieved to find he's not the only one.... ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 09:30:30 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Why did Xena keep Gbrielle around? On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 16:59, Cheryl Ande wrote: > It's funny that so many of us wonder why Xena keep Gabrielle with her in > the first season. Gabby was after all annoying, prone to trouble, and > overly naive. As cr keeps pointing out Milia would have been a better > fighter and Akemi had a strong will and a cunning nature so they would have > been better sidekicks than a naive chatty teenager. Well Xena didn't need > a fighting sidekick or a cunning one - she was after all more cunning and a > better warrior than any one around. What she needed was someone who had > faith in her - who wasn't intimidated by her and who liked her as a > person, not as a warrior or even a beautiful woman. Maybe what drew Xena > to Gabrielle was that the girl never afraid of her - yes she got into > trouble and talked insistently and always assumed Xena would put up with > her. To Xena that must have been refreshing - here was some one trusted > her to be tolerant and understanding and most of all kind. I'm sure it > was very much like her relationship with her adored little brother - I bet > he was annoying too but he was her one true friend. On top of this here > was a person who always assumed Xena was a good person; something Xena was > never sure of. Yet Gabrielle over the years always believed Xena's true > nature was heroic and noble and Xena tried her best to always live up to > that image. That was what Gabrielle gave Xena - the vision of herself not > as a merely a reformed villain but a genuine hero. Hmmm, now that's a new take on it. Very well put. You've almost convinced me. Almost > I also don't quit know where we get the impression Xena was some kind of > loner who suddenly and explicably decides she needs a companion. Probably from the Warrior Princess trilogy? :) (rest snipped) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #306 **************************************