From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #300 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, December 15 2004 Volume 04 : Number 300 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Conquest -- and Friend in Need?? [cr ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:28:28 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Conquest -- and Friend in Need?? On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:22, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: (snip) > > I think the Warrior Princess was much more self-sufficient than that, > > both when she was evil and when she reformed. My cynical view is that > > half that > > stuff she said to Gabs, she only said to keep Gabby off her back. "Yes > > dear, you're very important to me, I really do love you and by the way, > > have you seen where I left my golf clubs?" ;) > > Heh. I won't comment on that last view, as it no doubt reflects your > "reality." Arrg, don't bring that subjectivist-relativist nonsense into it. We''ve been all over that :( It reflects my _opinion_. Or maybe my wishful thinking. Not reality. Whatever..... > My own view of Gabs' importance to TPTB may be less romantic > than Gabfans', but I don't think the latter were entirely responsible for > Gabs' significance as Xena's reinforcement to stay on the right track. Agreed, they weren't entirely responsible, but I don't think we'd have got nearly so much of it without the Gabfans. > Beyond needing someone who could articulate Xena's (especially early on) > cryptic, nonverbose references to her motivations, Umm, can you give any examples of that? Because I think Lucy (aka Xena) always managed to convey her motivations quite clearly, one way or another. Not necessarily verbally. > Gabs provided someone to bounce ideas off of, Oooh, I sense a good meaty argument coming up :) As I recall, Xena didn't consult Gabs much on her plans (or anyone else). Xena decided for herself. Sometimes she told Gabs what they were, sometimes Gabs disagreed, frequently Gabs didn't do what Xena wanted - but I don't recall Xena ever asking Gabs if such-and-such was a good idea. > to offer a different perspective, to help Xena deal > with change and emotions, to give positive reinforcement to the risks Xena > took in opening herself up more. Xena was a bright woman who loved > learning and was brutally honest about her shortcomings, who strove for > excellence and improvement. She was not someone who thought or acted as if > she knew everything. Her ego was strong enough that listening to somebody > else did not diminsh it But - how often did she listen to Gabs for practical advice? Obviously, in Helicon, with disastrous consequences for the Amazons (but that's a whole other debate) - but any way, in that ep Xena was deliberately giving Gabs practice at making decisions. Most of the other occasions when Xena listened to Gabs, I think it was because Gabs was trying to restrain Xena from doing something bad - but, you know, now I mention that, I really can't bring any instances to mind. Maybe I'm just recalling all the times Xena _said_ that Gabs brought out her good side. A bit like Gabs' reputation as a bard, or as a persuader or negotiator - we heard a lot about it, but we rarely saw it in practice. (But maybe someone can produce some examples to illustrate that point and highlight my forgetfulness :) > Regardless of the importance TPTB originally saw in Gabrielle -- beyond the > need for telling Xena's internal story -- I believe they were wise enough > to allow that importance to evolve in a way that added depth and humanity > to Xena's "strong silent" character. I give TPTB a lot of credit for that, > for seeing on their own and encouraging what also resonated with many fans. > To me, it made for a much better story. It also acknowledged what most > "heroes" would say -- that they could not have achieved what they did > without someone in their lives who encouraged them, supported them, stood > by them during their darkest hours. > > I always thought it was particularly good for young people to see that Xena > had flaws and was willing to accept help in overcoming them. It provided > a model of independence that substituted growth for bull-headedness, where > both characters remained true to the best in themselves without trying to > dominate the other. Hmmm? I seem to recall a lot of occasions when the Irritating Blonde was trying to tell Xena what to do - though Xena usually ignored it. I certainly saw that as Gabs trying to 'dominate' or at least control Xena. (That was what was so Irritating, of course). > Of course it can be irritating to be challenged about > what you've become comfortable with or what's worked in the past. But I > never saw Lucy play Xena as dismissive of Gabs in the way you suggest. Heh. To really counter that, I should recruit a Paranoid Gabfundie - one of those few obsessive souls who thought they detected a conspiracy*** by TPTB to keep Gabrielle out of the limelight (or sabotage the subtext - take your choice) and lovingly collected every time Xena was 'insensitive' and didn't look up attentively when Gab spoke, or used her scrolls for loo paper, or dragged her around the scenery. :) But since I reject that point of view as out of proportion, I'll have to do some hard work and actually think of some instances myself. I'm at rather a disadvantage here - since I rarely listened to what Gabs was saying and regarded it as perfectly natural and unremarkable that Xena wouldn't either, such instances didn't stick in my memory. However, let's see - here's a few: The Debt (that one's glaringly obvious) When in Rome - Gabs didn't like the plan at all and Xena overrode her (and for once, Gabs did more or less as she was told) The Deliverer Gabrielle's Hope Gurkhan Legacy If The Shoe Fits A Day in the Life I'm sure there are many, many more if I sat and thought for a while...) (By the way, Gabs never listened to Xena either - and said so on several occasions, IIRC). (***There was no conspiracy btw - all my thousands of emails to Rob Tapert that said "Gab's a drag - lose her" went unanswered :( > I saw the normal annoyance and resistence of any relationship as close as > X&G's. But I also saw genuine respect for for Gabs' importance on all > levels -- telling the story and making believable what Xena would've been > hard pressed to do as well alone. > > -- Ife Well, I guess that's what strained my credulity in the first few eps - that Xena, Warrior Princess would tolerate a naive yet bumptious amateur who talked too much. M'Lila, now, I could credit as a sidekick. Akemi, too, because behind that mild exterior was a iron-hard sense of purpose and an ice-cool nerve as good as Xena's. Amarice, though she talked too much, knew what she was doing in a fight. But early Season 1 Gabs....? cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:35:34 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Conquest -- and Friend in Need?? Hi, cr wondered: >Well, I guess that's what strained my credulity in the first few eps - that >Xena, Warrior Princess would tolerate a naive yet bumptious amateur who >talked too much. M'Lila, now, I could credit as a sidekick. Akemi, too, >because behind that mild exterior was a iron-hard sense of purpose and an >ice-cool nerve as good as Xena's. Amarice, though she talked too much, knew >what she was doing in a fight. But early Season 1 Gabs....? Maybe Xena just thought, despite herself, that the kid was cute. She might not have realized until much later that that's why she was tolerating the irritating blonde, but deep down she just mighta had a crush on the girl. :) =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== hear at the HOMe House Concert Series http://hom.smoe.org =============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 10:51:17 -0800 From: "Julie Ruffell" Subject: [chakram-refugees] It's that time of year again! Getting stressed? Time to laugh it off with XT's Xena Solstice carols! http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome/solsticealbum.html http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome/beforesolstice.html BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 21:46:30 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Xena Commercial While watching the Daily Show I was surprised to see Xena come riding along. Yes there was a Xena commercial advertising the DVD sets. So if you haven't bought your sets yet there is a new incentive. When you buy a set keep your receipt and go to www.grabtheadventure.com and you can get a free gift. It's the sword letter opener (it also makes a great staple remover). You know it was nice to see old Xena riding around on commercial TV again. Hopefully she be back on SciFi or USA again in the near future (maybe Bravo since they love her so much). All these networks are owned by Universal who partially or wholly own Xena now - I think. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #300 **************************************