From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #220 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, September 9 2004 Volume 04 : Number 220 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] European XWP Fans [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Forgiven (was Re: Testing because it is so quiet on this list) [If] Re: [chakram-refugees] Bats [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena costume [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena costume [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] European XWP Fans [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Forgiven (was Re: Testing because it is so quiet on this list) [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena Costume ["Cheryl Ande" ] [chakram-refugees] Bruce Campbell as superhero coach in "Sky High"/ Lynda Carter as principal ["Daniel T. Miller" ] [chakram-refugees] Lucy the cat and more vermin tales ["Cheryl Ande" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Paradise Found ["Mark B." ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 00:21:46 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] European XWP Fans The following question was asked on another list: << I was told that there is a European series out of Xena. It's suppose to be 8 min longer then what we get in the states for all the seasons. It's suppose to be a little racier or daring, does anyone know if this is true? >> I'd never heard this. In fact, I'd heard some folks didn't get any or some of the seasons, or that eps were often edited. Anybody with info or ideas about this question? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 00:21:51 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Forgiven (was Re: Testing because it is so quiet on this list) In a message dated 9/7/2004 1:10:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > When she grabbed the urn at the end of the ep, I think she simply wanted > the > credit for doing the 'right thing' herself. Not the most noble of motives, > > maybe, but a step up from her previous situation. >> I watched it again tonight, thanks to you. I got the impression she and Micah were going to use it for themselves, double-crossing the gang. It seemed like Micah's comment about making Xena look like a fool is what changed her mind. Up until that point, she seemed more interested in impressing Micah, proving how "really bad" she was, than doing the right thing. > > The alternative hypothesis is that she was 'planted' by the gang on Xena as > a > spy - but what could they gain from that? They had no idea Xena was on > their case. Possibly Tara, hearing the priest's appeal to Xena, figured > she could increase her standing with the gang by infiltrating Xena and Gab > and providing the gang with intelligence. >> I agree she didn't seem "planted" by the gang. But you could be right that she saw it as a way to play both ends against the middle. It seemed her main interest was Micah, who may well have figured he could use Tara and Xena to get the urn without revealing his role in the plot. He basically said he was stringing Tara along. Interesting twist, as I hadn't thought Tara might've planned on doing that from the beginning. If so, then (like many another > > wrongdoer) Tara was reformed by Xena - I don't think we should condemn her, > > unless we give her equal credit for being ready to allow Xena to 'save' her. > >> Yes, that would mean that she wasn't counting on actually partnering with Xena or perpared to actually be influenced by the two women. I'd always thought she was half-way sincere about wanting to be like Xena (in the butt-kicking aspect anyway). Even so, there was little in her experience that said it could ever be more than a silly dream. As you say, it makes her "conversion" more meaningful. > > But if that theory is correct (that she was 'planting' herself as a spy), > her behaviour is highly unlikely and high-risk - one doesn't normally > ingratiate oneself with someone by beating up their friend. >> Not necessarily. Either way, it showed a tremendous dismissal of Gabs. Gabs was sitting there talking mush, writing, not responding to insults, seemingly afraid to fight -- nothing like Tara was used to. It didn't seem to occur to her that the "sidekick" could be Xena's friend, not just some useless tagalong Xena would ditch for a good "street" fighter. The girl wasn't exactly the brightest bulb when it came to ingratiating herself with "good" people. As it is, she lucked up precisely because X&G weren't quite what she thought. > > So I think my first theory is the most likely - Tara was confused, not > feeling very happy with her life, sees Xena and Gabs, thinks "I could be her > > sidekick" and - without much more thought - sets about it in the only way > she > could think of. Which is not that different from early Gabs except that, > in Gabs' case, she didn't have any competition. > As I said above, I'm liking the second theory. I always wondered how she knew Micah would appear near their camp when he did. I didn't see any opportunity for her to contact him once she'd joined up with X&G. It did seem pre-arranged. Frankly, I hadn't been all that interested in Tara's motivations, so didn't worry about that detail. I was more focused on the dynamic it created between X&G. In retrospect, it fits with her, at minimum, keeping her options open. It also fits with her insistence on being seen as "bad" and being upset with X&G's genuine interest in her. It meant that, instead of betraying these "marks" as originally planned, she would have to betray her boy friend. Admittedly, my first reaction was that you were being much too paranoid, but now I'm thinking theory two is more complex and interesting, as well as "works" with the details we got. It gives Tara more depth than I gave her credit for. Despite negative experiences in her childhood, messages that she was "born bad" and falling in with the wrong crowd, something in her may still have yearned to be better than that. She fought to cling to her past and really did take a risk in letting it go -- for a future only X&G believed she could have. Quite a paradigm shift for her. No wonder Xena identified with her. Yes, I like! - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 00:21:48 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Bats In a message dated 9/7/2004 9:18:21 AM Pacific Daylight Time, spri0037@tc.umn.edu writes: > another note of history: some of the fear of bats, i've read, comes > from ancient history in europe, where, because people often didn't > bathe for days or weeks at a time, nor wash their hair, that bats > sometimes dove at people's hair because of all the lovely insects which > got caught in it. > > Of course, we know that's not the reason they love Cheryl so much. Right? Right?! - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 19:39:55 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena costume On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 15:06, Cheryl LaScola wrote: > Isn't that Xena's outfit from LIVIA where she fights Eve in the > coliseum?? > > Cheryl J And yes, it is indeed! I eventually found it last night, after about four false starts. I'm not a cossie expert! 'Style' is wasted on me. (cr contemplates his version of 'casual gear' and decides that, no, not much style was ever wasted on him :) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 19:35:31 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena costume On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 13:46, Mark B. > The outfit looks interesting. My first impression was that it was a > mish-mash of different outfits. For some reason the 'skirt' reminded me > of what Ares wore in the 'war's scenes of 'Bitter Suite' and the top > reminded me of what Athena wore in one of the 'twilight of the gods' > eps. Anyway, that's my two dinars at first glance. > > Mark > Actually, it's been identified (and I eventually 'got it' myself, too, late last night), after I tried Valkyries (because of the designs on the breastplate) and When Fates Collide, and When in Rome (because the skirt looks Roman) - it's from 'Livia' and it is the complete cossie. But you're right - IMO the breastplate and the skirt look like two different styles. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 20:21:50 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] European XWP Fans On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 16:21, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > The following question was asked on another list: > > << I was told that there is a European series out of Xena. It's suppose to > be 8 min longer then what we get in the states for all the seasons. It's > suppose to be a little racier or daring, does anyone know if this is > true? > > > I'd never heard this. In fact, I'd heard some folks didn't get any or some > of the seasons, or that eps were often edited. Anybody with info or ideas > about this question? > > -- Ife I haven't heard that. Other than minor cuts for censorship in different countries. I would imagine the DVD's should be the full uncensored eps. Now, the 'racier' or 'more daring' bit is easily explained - some stations in the US do cut for sex more enthusiastically than Eurpoean or UK or NZ ones, I believe. (OTOH, the BBC cuts more for violence). But that would only account for a few seconds per ep. Farscape Season 1 *did* have extra scenes for the British market, simply because the BBC (who co-financed it) insisted on their version being an 'hour' long, and a commercial 'hour' in the UK is 5 minutes longer than a commercial 'hour' in the US. (5 minutes less ads). So Season 1 Farscape has these 'Euro scenes' devoted to little bits of characterisation that don't actually move the plot along (though in one ep, DNA Mad Scientist, there's a scene that really is telling in character terms, and I was really upset when I read the transcript and found I didn't have it on tape. I had no idea why at the time, I suspected NZ TV of all sorts of hideous crimes against textual authenticity). Eventually everyone found it too hard to try and write 5 minutes that was interesting but not essential and talked the Beeb out of it. I suppose the person who started the idea that Eurpoean 'Xena' is longer than US 'Xena' may have simply heard that a European 'hour' is longer and drawn an incorrect conclusion from that. (At least I think it's incorrect. I would certainly expect the DVD's to be full-length, and I'd be amazed if nobody in the US had noticed by now if the DVD eps had 8 more minutes in them!). cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 20:10:37 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Forgiven (was Re: Testing because it is so quiet on this list) On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 16:21, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/7/2004 1:10:59 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > cr@orcon.net.nz > > writes: > > When she grabbed the urn at the end of the ep, I think she simply wanted > > the > > credit for doing the 'right thing' herself. Not the most noble of > > motives, > > > > maybe, but a step up from her previous situation. >> > > I watched it again tonight, thanks to you. I got the impression she and > Micah were going to use it for themselves, double-crossing the gang. It > seemed like Micah's comment about making Xena look like a fool is what > changed her mind. Up until that point, she seemed more interested in > impressing Micah, proving how "really bad" she was, than doing the right > thing. No, I didn't see that Micah's comment about Xena had any effect on Tara. I think Micah and Tara had agreed to pinch it for themselves (as you said) - and Micah always intended to ditch Tara and keep it for himself - while by the end of the ep, I think Tara was hoping to convince Micah to join with her in returning the urn and then they could (as she said) go to Athens and make a fresh start. > > The alternative hypothesis is that she was 'planted' by the gang on Xena > > as a > > spy - but what could they gain from that? They had no idea Xena was on > > their case. Possibly Tara, hearing the priest's appeal to Xena, > > figured she could increase her standing with the gang by infiltrating > > Xena and Gab and providing the gang with intelligence. >> > > I agree she didn't seem "planted" by the gang. But you could be right that > she saw it as a way to play both ends against the middle. It seemed her > main interest was Micah, who may well have figured he could use Tara and > Xena to get the urn without revealing his role in the plot. He basically > said he was stringing Tara along. Interesting twist, as I hadn't thought > Tara might've planned on doing that from the beginning. > If so, then (like many another > > > > wrongdoer) Tara was reformed by Xena - I don't think we should condemn > > her, > > > > unless we give her equal credit for being ready to allow Xena to 'save' > > her. > > Yes, that would mean that she wasn't counting on actually partnering with > Xena or perpared to actually be influenced by the two women. I'd always > thought she was half-way sincere about wanting to be like Xena (in the > butt-kicking aspect anyway). Even so, there was little in her experience > that said it could ever be more than a silly dream. As you say, it makes > her "conversion" more meaningful. I certainly thought that she really did want to 'be like Xena'. She wasn't entirely faking it. > > But if that theory is correct (that she was 'planting' herself as a spy), > > her behaviour is highly unlikely and high-risk - one doesn't normally > > ingratiate oneself with someone by beating up their friend. >> > > Not necessarily. Either way, it showed a tremendous dismissal of Gabs. > Gabs was sitting there talking mush, writing, not responding to insults, > seemingly afraid to fight -- nothing like Tara was used to. It didn't seem > to occur to her that the "sidekick" could be Xena's friend, not just some > useless tagalong Xena would ditch for a good "street" fighter. Hmm, good point about what Tara was 'used to'. Doubtless she assumed that the sidekick of the Warrior Princess would be a street fighter too and she could displace her by showing that she was better. > The girl > wasn't exactly the brightest bulb when it came to ingratiating herself with > "good" people. As it is, she lucked up precisely because X&G weren't quite > what she thought. > > > So I think my first theory is the most likely - Tara was confused, not > > feeling very happy with her life, sees Xena and Gabs, thinks "I could be > > her > > > > sidekick" and - without much more thought - sets about it in the only way > > she > > could think of. Which is not that different from early Gabs except > > that, in Gabs' case, she didn't have any competition. > > As I said above, I'm liking the second theory. I always wondered how she > knew Micah would appear near their camp when he did. I didn't see any > opportunity for her to contact him once she'd joined up with X&G. It did > seem pre-arranged. Frankly, I hadn't been all that interested in Tara's > motivations, so didn't worry about that detail. I was more focused on the > dynamic it created between X&G. In retrospect, it fits with her, at > minimum, keeping her options open. It also fits with her insistence on > being seen as "bad" and being upset with X&G's genuine interest in her. It > meant that, instead of betraying these "marks" as originally planned, she > would have to betray her boy friend. > > Admittedly, my first reaction was that you were being much too paranoid, > but now I'm thinking theory two is more complex and interesting, as well as > "works" with the details we got. It gives Tara more depth than I gave her > credit for. Despite negative experiences in her childhood, messages that > she was "born bad" and falling in with the wrong crowd, something in her > may still have yearned to be better than that. She fought to cling to her > past and really did take a risk in letting it go -- for a future only X&G > believed she could have. Quite a paradigm shift for her. No wonder Xena > identified with her. Yes, I like! > > -- Ife The snag with Theory Two is I don't really believe it. I can believe Tara was in the tavern by chance and overheard (well, you can see her listening in the background), and improvised from there. But I can't believe she was planted, simply because - how would the gang know the priest would appeal to Xena? How would they know Xena was going to get on their case? (She nearly didn't). Trying to plant Tara would (IMO) be a really dumb thing to do, simply because if it went wrong it would guarantee to attract Xena's attention. My preferred theory (that Tara just took a chance) does have one apparent problem in her finding Micah near their camp - and apparently he was expecting her. So, either theory has this problem of how Tara and/or the gang might have pre-arranged their movements. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 07:34:52 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena Costume It looks like the costume she was wearing in Eve when Xena fought Livia in the Roman arena. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 17:37:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "Daniel T. Miller" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Bruce Campbell as superhero coach in "Sky High"/ Lynda Carter as principal ************************************** Wonder Woman' Star Carter Flies 'High' Mon, Aug 16, 2004, 02:08 PM PT LOS ANGELES (Zap2it.com) - Even though it's been 25 years since "Wonder Woman" star Lynda Carter swung her golden lasso, she's dusting off her superhero skills for her latest film. The 53-year-old actress will play the high school principal in the superhero family comedy "Sky High," according to The Hollywood Reporter. The project is set in a world where super-powered citizens are the norm. Bruce Campbell will play Coach Boomer, whose tests determine whether students will become elite heroes or second-fiddle sidekicks. Dave Foley will play Mr. Boy, who teaches the sidekicks the skills necessary to support the heroes. Michael Angarano portrays a boy attending the high school, and Kurt Russell and Kelly Preston play his parents. The Mike Mitchell-directed project will begin shooting Tuesday (Aug. 17) in Los Angeles. Carter's filled the role and bustier of "Wonder Woman" for five years beginning in 1975. She last appeared on the big screen in a small role in 2001's comedy "Broken Lizard's Super Troopers." *************************************************** __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:29:02 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Lucy the cat and more vermin tales Lucy was named for Lucy Lawless because of her blue eyes but as I said she is more Gabrielle in personality. Now as for me being a bat. I wouldn't mind I guess as long as I stayed away from tennis rackets. I would also be protected by federal law so a bat's life isn't so bad. But right now I am at war with a chipmunk. Did you know they eat tomatoes? More precisely they take one bite out of a tomato and leave the rest on the vine. They are also very brazen. I had a box of tomatoes on my back step for canning when one of the little sobs climbed into the box and stole one and ate it right there on the step. Unfortunately chipmunks are terribly cute and I can't do much but fume at it. Now what has this do with Xena - not a thing that I can think of. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 22:15:00 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Paradise Found I just watched the commentary of Paradise Found. I thought it was interesting to see the director and writer comment on the episode. It would appear that Rob and Chris were pretty much of the same mind about the episode but they obviously had differences. I gather Chris wanted Aiden to be much more serious or at least more somber - she definitely disliked his little butterfly clap at one point. I actually thought it was a nice touch - sort of made you wonder if Aiden really was just a harmless guru and not a villain. I also thought Rob was very honest when he admitted rabbit teeth Xena was a mistake. I never saw any reason for the strange make-up in order to make Xena appear evil. Lucy is a good enough actress to convey that without extreme make-up. In the second tub scene where Xena is hallucinating about hurting Gabby - she certainly looked more scary with just her hair slicked back and the lighting emphasizing her angular features than when she was decked out in her big teeth. I also never really accepted the premises that Xena's core personality is evil. I always thought that was an extreme position. To me Xena certainly has a wild streak but I think at her core is a need for action. She is almost hyperactive - she craves adventure and confrontation. That is what often in the past led her astray. Gabrielle is her counterpart because she appreciates quiet and serenity. She is more introspective that Xena and in that way they balance each other. In Aiden's world the two women went so far into their cores that they almost imploded. Now back to the commentary. Rob told a cute story about the scene where a naked Gabrielle is hiding behind Xena after their return from Aiden's world. Ren apparently had minimal clothes on and when Lucy absentmindedly walked away and Ren was left bearing all to the world much to everyone's amusement. Rob wanted to use it on the gag reel but Lucy put her foot down - she obviously wasn't going to have Ren embarrassed. That brings up one of the most interesting points about this episode. ROC never was more beautifully shot that in this episode. Rob went out of his way to make sure she looked great. At the same time Lucy was getting less and less attractive as she descended into evil. You know I don't think there are many stars of TV series that would be content to see a second lead look so good and be given so much screen time. I think this shows how much Lucy cared about the show and how much respect she had for Ren as a colleague. Now I have a question. At one point Rob and Chris were talking about Cold Case and Kathryn Morris. Chris said something to the effect that Morris was playing character a lot like she played Najar. She then said it works and Rob agree but then said it gives hope to someone and I can't understand what he said. Does anyone know what he said? CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 21:53:32 -0500 From: "Mark B." Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Paradise Found Cheryl Ande wrote: >I just watched the commentary of Paradise Found. I thought it was interesting >to see the director and writer comment on the episode. It would appear that >Rob and Chris were pretty much of the same mind about the episode but they >obviously had differences. I gather Chris wanted Aiden to be much more >serious or at least more somber - she definitely disliked his little butterfly >clap at one point. I actually thought it was a nice touch - sort of made you >wonder if Aiden really was just a harmless guru and not a villain. > I thought the little butterfly clap and 'whooosh' sound were natural, just ... part of the show with the usual little things that make us laugh. >I also thought Rob was very honest when he admitted rabbit teeth Xena was a >mistake. I never saw any reason for the strange make-up in order to make Xena >appear evil. Lucy is a good enough actress to convey that without extreme >make-up. In the second tub scene where Xena is hallucinating about hurting >Gabby - she certainly looked more scary with just her hair slicked back and >the lighting emphasizing her angular features than when she was decked out in >her big teeth. > I thought the second hot tub scene was really eerie... with the lighting and Lucy's expressions. I haven't watched the ep in a while, but seem to recall something showing on Lucy's forehead and wondering if it was just lighting or something applied to her forehead. Mark B. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #220 **************************************