From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #197 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, August 2 2004 Volume 04 : Number 197 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] ENDGAME Again [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] The Vision: What Did Gabs Know? [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Catwoman MOSTLY OT [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Catwoman MOSTLY OT [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Eurotrip [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Catwoman MOSTLY OT [KTL ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 01:49:25 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] ENDGAME Again Finally watched my DVD of Endgame. I continue to love that scene where Xena rides up to Brutus near the end. Lucy does such a wonderful job conveying the multiple levels of the exchange with Brutus -- a touch of earned arrogance about what she'd help accomplish, a mixture of hope and skepticism about Brutus, the expectation that Caesar would prove to be the egomaniac she thought. I watched this time with Cheryl's comment in mind, about how Brutus' own reputation played into the reception he received from Caesar. Just before Xena rides up, Brutus is essentially countermanding the orders the general thought he would be following from Caesar in continuing to fight the Amazons. Brutus says no, "That's Amazon Land. We stay out." Brutus obviously believes he has the stature and relationship with Caesar to make such a decision. Xena does a wonderful job of planting doubts in Brutus -- not by focusing on Caesar as a leader, but on Caesar's behavior as a "friend." She plays on Brutus' personal motivations by subtly making him question how well someone like him would do in Caesar's version of "democracy," whether he would be his own or Caesar's "man." After saying how Caesar betrayed other "friends," she offers with a slight sneer that maybe Brutus is "special." Then she gives him Pompey's head, underscoring that no one was more "special" to Caesar than she herself, more "special" than Brutus -- capable of killing Brutus at will, letting him take credit for her superior abilities -- and yet someone Caesar betrayed and now recognized as a rare worthy opponent he obsessed about conquering. David Franklin also does a great job with his eyes of going from pure belief to a flicker of doubt. In the scene where Caesar rejects the treaty, there are senators in the background. Beyond Brutus' doubts in Caesar's motivations and judgment, I was more aware of his humiliation. Caesar has not only conveyed his lack of appreciation for Brutus' actions as Brutus' "own man," but has done so publicly, in front of other powerful people. Certainly not the behavior of a "good" friend or wise leader. I couldn't help but contrast that with Xena's determination to support Gabs as Queen -- e.g., publicly deferring to Gabs and seeking Gabs' approval, using Gabs' nonlethal approach to further their goals, reminding everyone that Gabs set the tone for how her tribe would do things, expressing genuine respect for Gabs in the conversations with Amarice. Xena's example of friendship wasn't blindly biased. She still found ways to accomplish what she thought had to be done, without undercutting Gabs, also recognizing that they could succeed only if the Amazons believed in Gabs. Under other circumstances, Xena could've started giving orders as the unquestioned military expert. But unlike Caesar, Xena showed respect for her friend, for her friend's stature and judgment, as well as for what would be best for the Amazons and the "greater good" beyond. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 01:49:28 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] The Vision: What Did Gabs Know? I read an interview with Stever Sears about Past Imperfect. He compares the vision to telling someone not to go out of the house, because they might be hit by a car -- in this case, *would* be hit by a car. Gabs understandably didn't want to live like that, preferring to take her chances or let the event happen. She also has faith that Xena will do her utmost to push her away in time. Unfortunately, Sears didn't answer a question I've always had. Did Gabs know Xena was on a cross in the vision? PI opens with Xena finally confessing about the vision. All we see is the part with Gabs in it, followed by Gabs asking something like, "Are you sure I was dying?" Later on, Gabs says she's been on a cross before and that Xena has found a way to save her. She never says, "Are you sure *we* were dying," "You've survived crosses before" or, "at least we were together." One would think Gabs would be a little upset about Xena being crucified, yet I don't ever recall her mentioning that. Now, one explanation could be that Xena herself was angsting more about Gabs, letting it affect Xena's effectiveness and treatment of Gabs. I could see where Gabs would be concerned about the former and irritated by the latter. She'd want Xena to "snap out of it," fearing the consequences of indecisiveness for Xena, knowing that Xena wouldn't care so much about dying herself, except if she believed she was taking Gabs with her. Another explanation, which I've always assumed, is that Xena didn't tell Gabs the whole story, that she didn't see dying together as a silver lining. I figured what scared the Supreme Warrior Protector most was that, if the vision were true, it was obvious she'd failed in saving Gabs, that there was nothing she could do. Xena continues to act as though her only recourse is to hope the car is really intended for her, that Gabs will be safe if she doesn't go outside or isn't standing near Xena. I don't recall Xena ever mentioning, "Well, I couldn't save you because I was obviously helpless and being put on a cross myself." There's also little to suggest that Xena talked about the other visions where only she was in danger. She tells Gabs how "real" Gabs' crucifixion seemed, that it could be "true." Why doesn't she suppot her fears by mentioning she'd just seen one vision fulfilled in her fight with Najara. That could be an oversight on the part of writing team, or maybe TPTB assumed we'd think Xena told everything. I just find it curious that we see Xena in the vision when she's talking to Najara, or thinking about it without discussing the specifics with Gabs (as in Paradise, where Gabs simply asks if Xena's thinking about "the vision"). I got the feeling Xena's version of not dwelling on the subject meant to her that she wouldn't bring it up or go into the little detail that she was in the vision too. Anybody else recall something different or have ideas about that? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 01:37:40 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Catwoman MOSTLY OT On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Meredith Tarr wrote: > Hi, > > KT posted: > > > Farscape, the actor who played B'Lanna (? Was that > > her name--the Klingon > > in Voyager), Kira in whichever Star Trek thing she > > was in > > Deep Space Nine. :) I would also add Terry Farrell > (Dax) to this list ... she could be downright scary at > times. Ah, I didn't see a lot of eps with Dax. But I really enjoyed her relationship with Cisco. That they had been close friends in the past, when she'd been male and older, I think. Intriguing concept. > > > We > > need to go put our butts in the seats and show the > > studios that stories > > about women will capture audiences. But do we have > > to go if it's crap? > > No. We have no obligation to support crap just > because it has a woman in it. Amen, sister! If we do this, then we > will give the studios the impression that we will > accept anything they want to shove down our throats, > just because it has a grrl in it. Casting our vote > for quality at the box office is the only way to show > the studios that we won't stand for crap. Precisely > as you said, we must maintain our standards. > Yup. And voting with your entrance fee is the only control you have, really. Catwoman is getting creamed by reviewers. There's complaints that there's no story, that Halle and Sharon Stone are both awful and that the director should have stuck to making MTV videos. I've seen more than one comparison to it being as monumentally bad as Showgirls. (Of course, Showgirls just came out on video, so I guess it's in people's minds.) I generally could not care less if a summer blockbuster is good or not. But what frustrates me with this situation is that I'm afraid that it might have a negative impact on the already pretty tenuous chances of a Xena movie getting made. I know that some people are going to blame the failure of the movie in part just on the fact that it has a female lead. And thus continue to boost and validate the hesitation that already exists regarding making "chick flicks" because they just don't sell. And that SUCKS! > > I just could not bring myself to go see Eurotrip, > > despite Lawless being in > > it. I just couldn't stand to support a piggy boy > > movie. > > This is precisely why I didn't go see it, either. > (Thanks for the tip about the clips on MaryD's site, > though -- I will have to check those out.) > > Meredith > You're welcome. MaryD's got a great site--she's always got something new on there. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 01:50:52 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Catwoman MOSTLY OT On Tue, 27 Jul 2004, Lee Daley wrote: > A few comments, and a lot of snippage > > At 10:47 AM 7/27/2004 -0800, you wrote: > >And boy, I have to say that I find Halle Berry totally unbelievable as a > >dangerous fighting woman. It's not just the outfit, it's her presentation > >of the "warrior". I see her portrayal of Catwoman as far more involved > >with showing the character as sexy as hell. She's playing her like a sex > >kitten, for crying out loud. > > From what I can remember, Catwoman was a "sex kitten" even in the comic > books (and I'm old enough to remember them from the original paper, > although also old enough for those memories to be clouded). I'd have to > say Ms. Berry is playing "true to the character" But the problem is she doesn't know how to act as a powerful sex kitten. I have to admit, the only Catwoman I remember was Julie Newmar in the television series. And though yes of course she was a sex kitten, she was also powerful, tricky and a worthy adversary. Watching Halle flop around, all I could think was that she had absolutely no idea what she was doing. That she was totally lost without a clue. It was downright painful to watch. > > > >The director and the actors just don't "get" it, > > They "get it". "Highlander, The Raven" got it. At least in terms of what > sells. I never saw that. I've just seen stills of the character. So I have no idea how she'd strike me. I did hear a review today that said that Catwoman was a disappointment at the box office. But then I saw that it was in like third place this week. My guess is that it'll be out on DVD pretty quickly. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 01:59:56 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Eurotrip > fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > > > I was very pleasantly surprised to see how good Lucy was in it. She > > totally cracked me up. She actually ACTED as a person who happens to work > > as a dominatrix. She didn't just posture herself with a "wink, wink, > > nudge, nudge looka me pretending to be a madam" outlook that many people > > would have used. > > > > > > I admit, I shelled out for the DVD, but only watched Lucy's parts. Uh-huh. Think that'll get you less prayer penance time in confession? ;-> I agree > with your "take." I also liked the way she took the boy's flyer and managed to > convey, "Ah, another silly boy" (sigh) and "Oooo, another silly boy" > (caCHING) at the same time. And when she whipped that robe off to get down to > business, she scared even me! > > -- Ife LOL! I alsp gpt a grin at the outtakes--when she says something like, "I pull out his pants and look in at his dick" and beings to do that and the young guy suddenly cracks up and she says, "Shh!" and when he continues to laugh, she says, "Quit it--shut up" and pushes his head back up. What a mom! KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 02:33:24 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Catwoman MOSTLY OT On Wed, 28 Jul 2004, Lee Daley wrote: > KT wrote in part: > > >>Of course, we've all been spoiled by Lucy's absolutely dead on > >>presentation of a warrior at work. > > Lucy's presentation was that of a "hero (shero?)" at work. The average > "warrior" is ill-fed, ill-rested, ill-led, ill-washed, and is mostly > motivated to keep him/herself and his/her companions alive (actually those > people that Xena kicks the stuffing out of). True---she's a mythic hero. Totally different than a serious study of soldiers at war. Though one of the things that made Lucy believable to me as a warrior was that she did get dirty. I noticed that in the Creation calendar--there was like two or three months in a row where you can see the dirt on Lucy. That's one thing I liked about Lord of the Rings--they were filthy and exhausted looking. "Band of Brothers" did a good > job of presenting this reality. "The Last Samurai" did a decent job of > showing the transition from the classical "hero" to the modern "warrior". > > I think "The Way" is indicative of Xena's feeling about being a "warrior", > it is a dirty, nasty job, you have a hard time feeling good about > yourself. Krishna's speech about "when you ride into battle...." says much > about the concept of "a just war". Yeah definitely. She's feeling dirty and unworthy because she is just a kick-ass warrior, that she's not a patient saintly type like Eli or Gabrielle. I also think the end of A Good Day shows what she thinks of going to war. How you have to lie to yourself, fool yourself into thinking "It was a good day of fighting" means anything worthwhile. (and to me is a crock of .....) It's > hard to feel good about ending a life, you do it, but you don't have to > like it, mostly you dehumanize the enemy and that lets you sleep at night > (if sheer exhaustion doesn't). > Three of my cousins went to Vietnam. One came back fine, one spent years in military hospitals and still isn't quite right and one came back in a box. Neither of the two who survived will talk about it. Ever. > Combat sucks, no two ways about it. Thank The Goddess that in this > generation the public can divorce the warriors from the war, that certainly > was not the case in my generation. My family fully supported my cousins. Of course, being blue collar folks, they all expected all our boys to go. They always had a slight contempt for the one other appropriate age cousin who went to college instead. War destroys families. Both the members who go and the members who stay behind who love them. > > We need to remember that the genera we are dealing with is > fantasy. Reality has no such fine philosophical points. > > Enough of my rant. > > > > >>However, I can use this idea for Catwoman. I could go buy a ticket for > >>that movie and then go watch another. > > Well, I'll just wait for it to show up on cable, I don't have a Nelson box > on my TV so it won't have any sociological or monetary impact. > > LeeD, Warrior Jester LOL! Well, okay then.... KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #197 **************************************