From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #190 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Sunday, July 25 2004 Volume 04 : Number 190 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Endgame [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Endgame [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Minor YAXI in Endgame. [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Endgame [Sarah Anne Packard ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Endgame ["A. Reddecliffe" Anyway, I was a bit disappointed that in the interview with Steve Sears and > > Eric Gruendemann, they never mentioned Amarice. I would have been > interested to know why she was introduced. >> I think I remember reading somewhere that she was to be the "youth" appeal, since Gabs had become so mature. Somebody X&G could mentor, who presented the growing pains, youthful mistakes and humor that Gabs once did. Apparently Varia took on that role (though without Amarice's sense of humor). - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 19:30:16 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Endgame On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 18:10, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/23/2004 5:22:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > Anyway, I was a bit disappointed that in the interview with Steve Sears > > and > > > > Eric Gruendemann, they never mentioned Amarice. I would have been > > interested to know why she was introduced. >> > > I think I remember reading somewhere that she was to be the "youth" appeal, > since Gabs had become so mature. Somebody X&G could mentor, who presented > the growing pains, youthful mistakes and humor that Gabs once did. > Apparently Varia took on that role (though without Amarice's sense of > humor). > > -- Ife Hmmm. Well, Varia was only present for two (or was it three?) eps, besides she was an Amazon Queen.... too senior to really show the youthful naivete that early Gabs or Amarice did. I can't really see her filling the same role as Amarice. Besides, Amarice was fun. Varia wasn't. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2004 01:23:18 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Minor YAXI in Endgame. Discussing Endgame on another list, there's a little YAXI that's surfaced in it. Yep, we've found a new YAXI!! 8-) I was pondering whether Gabrielle's offer of a peace treaty was genuine, or a move by Xena to show Brutus how megalomaniacal Caesar was. Did she know he'd burn the treaty? Or was she having a bob each way, if he accepted it, it helped the Amazons, if he burnt it, it unsettled Brutus. (No YAXIs so far :). As it is, Caesar burnt it unopened, never realising it came from Gabrielle - (XT's transcript): BRUTUS This is a personal message from the queen of the Amazons to Caesar, ruler of all of Rome. A peace treaty. The queen of the Amazons promises to respect the territories of... (at which point Caesar burns it) Caesar never knew it was from Gabs, as evidenced by his next question: CAESAR If they're not under my control Brutus, they're a threat. There was a rumour that Xena was headed towards the Amazons. Any word of that? BRUTUS No. Not that I'm aware of. Caesar would never have accepted that answer if he'd known Gabs was Amazon Queen. But here comes the YAXI: Remember Xena tells Brutus not to let Caesar know she had a hand in the defeat of Pompey: XENA If you wanna stay alive don't mention my name to Caesar. The plan was yours. Well, she must have known the treaty signed by Gabs would be a dead giveaway. (So must Brutus if he thought about it). Caesar knows very well who Gabs is. Did Xena just forget? But she doesn't forget things like that! Or did Gabby just sign with her title, not her name? That would be a very odd way to sign a document though, normally such things would be signed with both name and title. Suggestions, anybody? ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 11:52:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Sarah Anne Packard Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Endgame > Hmmm. Well, Varia was only present for two (or was it three?) eps, besides She was in at least 4 that I can think of off the top of my head...Coming Home, Path of Vengeance, Dangerous Prey, To Helicon and Back...are you thinking of Marga maybe? > she was an Amazon Queen.... too senior to really show the youthful naivete > that early Gabs or Amarice did. She wasn't an Amazon Queen to start with (Marga was), she became one later...and I recall her "youthful naivete" getting her in quite a lot of trouble. -Sarah, aka the abbagirl- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 09:57:20 -0600 From: "abqbeach" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Endgame cr wrote: > Just got as far as Endgame in my viewing of the Season 4 DVD's. [snip] > Anyway, I was a bit disappointed that in the interview with Steve Sears and > Eric Gruendemann, they never mentioned Amarice. I would have been > interested to know why she was introduced. She was a major new character > and obviously intended as such (Jennifer Sky got star billing at the head of > the 'Guest Stars' credits). And but for her landing a lead role in Cleo > 2525, Amarice would presumably have been around much longer. I had assumed > Amarice's introduction it was to make up for Gabs's pacifism, except that > Steve Sears (or was it Eric Gruendemann) mentioned that in this ep they were > already getting Gabby ready to fall off the wagon as far as that went, > obviously the Gabspaz was already in mind. Check out Lucy and Renee's dvd commentary on Ides of March: Renee: I remember being so frustrated that I couldn't have any fights. Lucy: Oh, because you were being peaceful. Imagine how frustrated I was that you weren't doing any fights? Because you loved them, and I hated them. Lucy: Another advantage, writing wise, to have Amarice come in there is that we now, again, had a young, stupid person who needed to learn and make mistakes. The writers, producers and you [Renee] got sick of Gabrielle being that character, so she helped a lot. That was probably part of it too. You weren't ... Renee: ... the sort of fumbling idiot. It all worked out because Gabrielle had to evolve. How could she not learn things from Xena? angie in NM http://xenawp.org ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 20:24:00 +0100 From: "A. Reddecliffe" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Endgame > This episode bolsters my belief that Xena was one of the unacknowledged > forces behind the Amazon nation. (I'm looking for the right word though, > and 'force' isn't it. 'Influence' is too vague and not strong enough. > 'Creator' may be too strong and implies a positive result which, as we know > from Sin Trade flashbacks, was not always the case. Anyway, the Amazons > never fully acknowledged the major part she played in their history both for > good and evil which was, arguably, greater than that of any Amazon, even > including Alti.) How about : Power? Inspiration? Role model? Of these, I think I would choose role model. She had amazon qualities, recognised even from her first meeting with the Cyane and the Amazons in Sin Trade. Once she got through the evil phase she was the embodiment of what many Amazons would like to be. In this she was different from Gabrielle and her role with the Amazons. Gabrielle would be respected and even revered, but for different reasons. Xena would help them win the wars, Gabrille would help them prevent the wars happening in the first place. Ann ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 19:42:35 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Endgame In a message dated 7/24/2004 2:18:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, a.reddecliffe@ntlworld.com writes: > Xena would help them win the wars, Gabrille would help them prevent the > wars > happening in the first place. > Oooo, I like that! Obviously, Xena had her peace-maker moments, and Gabs had her "to the war!" moments. But overall, I think your description fits their different "ways." - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2004 19:42:37 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Minor YAXI in Endgame. In a message dated 7/24/2004 6:33:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > Caesar never knew it was from Gabs, as evidenced by his next question: > CAESAR If they're not under my control Brutus, they're a threat. There was > > a rumour that Xena was headed towards the Amazons. Any word of that? > BRUTUS No. Not that I'm aware of. > > Caesar would never have accepted that answer if he'd known Gabs was Amazon > Queen. > > But here comes the YAXI: > > Remember Xena tells Brutus not to let Caesar know she had a hand in the > defeat of Pompey: > XENA If you wanna stay alive don't mention my name to Caesar. The plan was > yours. > > Well, she must have known the treaty signed by Gabs would be a dead > giveaway. > (So must Brutus if he thought about it). Caesar knows very well who Gabs > is. > Did Xena just forget? But she doesn't forget things like that! > > Or did Gabby just sign with her title, not her name? That would be a very > odd way to sign a document though, normally such things would be signed with > > both name and title. > > Suggestions, anybody? ;) > As to Caesar, there's no reason he'd connect Gabs with "the Amazon Queen," unless Brutus had confirmed that Xena was in the area. After all, she seldom funtioned as the Queen or stayed with the Amazons. It's also possible Caesar didn't know Ephiny had been killed, so assumed she or someone else was the leader. I didn't get the impression he cared about Amazon politics anyway - only whether or not these nameless, inconvenient women stood between him and what he wanted. I think Xena/Gabs left it up to Brutus as to what or how much he would reveal. The fact that he didn't name Gabs suggested that he was heeding Xena's cautions about that, possibly harboring his own suspicions. If Gabs did sign her name, maybe Brutus wanted to see how Caesar would react, once he'd read the treaty. But Caesar was slick in burning it first. At that point, he may have been less concerned about Xena -- a known enemy -- than about whether Brutus had become a snake in Caesar's lair. Quite possibly all that was left purposely vague to set us up for future events. It left us guessing about Brutus' motivations, as well as about whether Caesar was "playing him" -- suspicious of him and/or of Xena and Gabrielle's involvement. I liked that Xena gave Brutus a "heads up," let Gabs have a chance for a peaceful resolution, yet basically figured none of that would really matter, if Caesar was determined to eliminate anyone on his path to domination. Xena's goal was pretty simple -- begin working on what she saw as Ceasar's weakest link -- Brutus. His hesitancy in telling Ceasar the truth indicates that Xena accomplished this. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #190 **************************************