From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #187 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, July 20 2004 Volume 04 : Number 187 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] LL appearance noted on Tvguide.com [HJJH ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trades [cr ] [chakram-refugees] LL in Star ["Mark B." ] [chakram-refugees] Claire Stansfield [Sarah Anne Packard ] [chakram-refugees] Claire news ["Xena Torres" ] RE: [chakram-refugees] LL appearance noted on Tvguide.com ["bookdaft" Subject: [chakram-refugees] LL appearance noted on Tvguide.com 12:00 AM Central WB Channel Tuesday, 20 Wayne Brady 60 mins. Lucy Lawless; Sheryl Lee Ralph; Chaka Kahn; Bob Goen; volunteers Taylor and Trey DeGroat. Release Year: 2003 If this has played before, I didn't catch it. TEXena ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 01:50:07 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trades cr wrote: > I was just watching Sin Trade (on my new DVD set) and noticing again > what a magnificent (double) episode it is. As if you didn't all know what I think > ;) The rain. Good gods, that heavy, heavy rainfall, just so apparent on the DVD version. Again, I wonder why they didn't take the time to do a few snips and cut this into one connected story, instead of interrupting the story by making us go back to the menu and start part two separately. They should do this with all the double eps (triple for the Ring trilogy) if it's not too much trouble. Just a little neatening up. Of course, if they do put the trilogy together I would hope they'd take out the endless repeats of Xena as the Village Smitty. Those repeats always seemed to be pure padding to me. It's also a shame that they didn't keep the same directors for each multi-part ep. Sin Trades is so cohesive partially because TJ did both, I think. cr: > > And the background soundtrack (in this scene and right through the episode) > of spooky-sounding echoing strings that gives a haunting, remote feel to the > scene. I always think when Cold Case shows its credits that that kind of haunting wail that starts them off is pure Joe. > The fight with Alti's men when Xena finds the young dead Amazon - I really > like her moves. Snip snip snip > And it was cool the way Xena shook her hands at them (putting a hex > on them?) as they approached. I really like how Lucy portrayed the work of a shaman. It's obvious that Xena's shaking of her hands over the girl's body is part of the stylized gestures repertoire of a shamanistic ritual. It's analogous to how the priests in a Catholic ritual, when raising the host and wine up to god, all perform the sacrificial offering gesture in the same way in each mass. Ritual gestures are distinctive, very formal moves, not common actions. They're specifically geared to be outside of normal secular motions. I think that while Xena's body is responding to the danger by turning to face and acknowledge the men who are about to attack her, she is still involved mentally in the ritual she has started to perform over the girl. Her body is ready for the physical fight, her anger with the men for having killed the girl breaks through her concentration as she glares at them, but her soul, her mental attention is still focused on and involved in the performance of the physical requirements of the shamanistic rite. And so she's torn between the two worlds, the physical and the spiritual for a few moments, with duties that call to her from each. In which case, her shaking her hands as she faces the men is not directed towards them at all. This swinging back and forth between the warrior job and the shaman job continues throughout her fight-she does the handshaking again after she's knocked most of the guys down. But she also transforms it into a little warning gesture as she points at the guy coming after her and gives him one of her "Xena enjoying the battle crazed grins". And when the battle is over, she immediately goes back to making hand gestures oer the body of the girl, just giving a quick check over her shoulder to make sure the guys are running away. Orrrrr, perhaps it's a warning. By continuing the ritual gesture even as she stands and faces them, she's showing them that she's involved in a religious ceremony for the dead and that they should step away and not interfere. Death has many taboos in every human culture. Perhaps shaman Xena offers this warning though warrior Xena wouldn't, since warrior Xena probably wouldn't expect these guys to indulge in respectful religious behavior. And this is what that second finger-pointing gesture meant-"See, I TOLD you I was involved in a spiritual moment. But you HAD to try and distract me. See what happens when you do that?" A thought just struck me. There's uh, "a whole lot o' shaking going on", in shamanistic rituals. I suspect that the dangling shells, hoofs, antlers and bone bits on the costume relate to this. But I don't know which came first-the shaking to enhance the noise, or the noise encouraging more shaking. Things are very quiet in a pristine natural world and these animal bits hitting together would be relatively loud in that world. (And which is one thing that they didn't pick up on and use in this ep. They have the animal bits sewn directly onto the apron. The shaman clothing I've seen in museums has the pieces tied to little leather thongs so they swing free. And crash into each other as the shaman moves.) I imagine the costume was encrusted with remnants of dead animal parts because shamans' power comes from their ability to interact with the animal world to obtain their goal. And the parts of an animal that continue to exist after their death are therefore appropriately emblematic of shamans and their power. After they added these hard animal parts, did the shamans then realize that they really clanged and clanked, making loud spooky noises. And then did this perhaps lead to making more grand gestures to make more noise? Of course, normal movements of a body when dressed creates noises, such as the creaks of leather clothing and the more typical and normal tribal adornments like say a shell or porcupine quill necklace clattering as any person moved around. So did this inspire the shaman to add more hard clacking things to their costume to make more noise whenever they moved, whether they were involved in religious ceremonies or not? It's an interesting conundrum, I think. I doubt we'll ever know which came first. It was probably just a natural progression, a synergy in which the whole becomes more than the parts. CR: > > The Ewokazons snapping up the dazed thug that Xena left lying around - "Look > what we got". I usually hate teens in movies, they're so juvenile, but > these were young adults - still with a bit of youthful enthusiasm, which made > them very engaging. Top marks to the writers and actors. I, like many others, just loved these young rascally Amazons. They were very real in they way they acted and also in the way they interacted with each other. Much more believable to me than the Greek amazons ever were in terms of being part of a communal life. Perhaps because their acting had more of an ensemble cast feel to it than the Greek amazons ever showed. They had a couple of really good characters-like Melosa and Ephiny, but to me there didn't seem to be so much of a feeling of a community among them. They were individuals with individual concerns. The Ewokazons were committed to the tribal unit, not just to personal issues. The Greek amazons talked about the tribe and the Amazon nation but I never got the feel of them as a united entity that superceded the individual. I did believe that the young Siberian Amazons however, did treasure the group and were willing to make sacrifices for the group beyond just on the battlefield. Perhaps it's the furs, but they almost appear to be a herd at times. They gang together and run up to look at things all together, like when they run up to Xena's body or when they hustle up to Xena on the horse at the last battle after the Berserker is dead. I saw these guys sacrificing their individual selves to the good of the tribe in day to day living. Like when Yakut accepts that she must be the next shaman, with no questions asked and no reluctance shown. No, "Hell no! I want to be a professional accordian player!" And we just see them working together all the time-preparing the sacred circle, building the sweat lodge, letting Xena beat the snot out of them and taking her pinch when she tells them they need to. Potentially sacrificing not just their bodies but also their souls. Just total selflessness and commitment to the shared mission of the tribe. This COULD be due to the fact that they were so young when they had to take care of themselves because Xena had killed all their adults. If so, this really was an excellent directing job of portraying their bonding that resulted from necessity to survive. Snip snip snip of more great moments listed by Thel. Damn, this is an excellent ep! KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 00:45:21 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trades On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:50, KTL wrote: > cr wrote: > > I was just watching Sin Trade (on my new DVD set) and noticing again > > what a magnificent (double) episode it is. As if you didn't all > > know what I think > > > ;) > > The rain. Good gods, that heavy, heavy rainfall, just so apparent on the > DVD version. > > Again, I wonder why they didn't take the time to do a few snips and cut > this into one connected story, instead of interrupting the story by making > us go back to the menu and start part two separately. Actually, I don't mind that. For one thing, it keeps the credits in their right place. Probably this didn't make too much difference in Sin Trade - though, umm, Hades was in Part 1 only so he would've been missed in the Part 2 credits - ummm (checks listing) - actually, several Part1 actors were omitted from the Part 2 credits. And anyway, with DVD, it's a snip to fast forward through them. > They should do this with all the double eps (triple for the Ring trilogy) > if it's not too much trouble. Just a little neatening up. Of course, if > they do put the trilogy together I would hope they'd take out the endless > repeats of Xena as the Village Smitty. Those repeats always seemed to be > pure padding to me. Umm, please, no. We want _more_ scenes, not less! I just like to have the credits as televised in their proper place. Besides which, for a two-parter, it's not a bad idea to have an intermission in the middle, it makes a handy break to go and get another coffe / beer / whatever.... > It's also a shame that they didn't keep the same directors for each > multi-part ep. Sin Trades is so cohesive partially because TJ did both, I > think. Oh yes, I entirely agree there. > cr: > > And the background soundtrack (in this scene and right through > > the episode) > > of spooky-sounding echoing strings that gives a haunting, > > remote feel to the scene. > > I always think when Cold Case shows its credits that that kind > of haunting wail that starts them off is pure Joe. > > > The fight with Alti's men when Xena finds the young dead > > Amazon - I really like her moves. > > Snip snip snip > > > And it was cool the way Xena shook her hands at them > > (putting a hex on them?) as they approached. > > I really like how Lucy portrayed the work of a shaman. It's obvious that > Xena's shaking of her hands over the girl's body is part of the stylized > gestures repertoire of a shamanistic ritual. It's analogous to how the > priests in a Catholic ritual, when raising the host and wine up to god, > all perform the sacrificial offering gesture in the same way in each mass. > Ritual gestures are distinctive, very formal moves, not common actions. > They're specifically geared to be outside of normal secular motions. Well yes, shaking her hands over the Young Dead Amazon was, IMO, some sort of ritual blessing. > I think that while Xena's body is responding to the danger by turning to > face and acknowledge the men who are about to attack her, she is still > involved mentally in the ritual she has started to perform over the girl. > Her body is ready for the physical fight, her anger with the men for > having killed the girl breaks through her concentration as she glares at > them, but her soul, her mental attention is still focused on and involved > in the performance of the physical requirements of the shamanistic rite. > And so she's torn between the two worlds, the physical and the spiritual > for a few moments, with duties that call to her from each. Hmm, no, I didn't see it that way. The way I saw it was that the handshaking was 'casting' some sort of spiritual power over the subject - in the case of the YDA, presumably a blessing, and in the case of the attackers, probably some sort of negative energy (i.e. a curse). Or maybe it was a blessing for the dead or about-to-be-dead in which case (for the attackers) it was a not-too-subtle hint that they should go away. (snippage) > A thought just struck me. Dah da da Dah da da DUM! ;) > There's uh, "a whole lot o' shaking going on", in shamanistic rituals. I > suspect that the dangling shells, hoofs, antlers and bone bits on the > costume relate to this. But I don't know which came first-the shaking to > enhance the noise, or the noise encouraging more shaking. Things are very > quiet in a pristine natural world and these animal bits hitting together > would be relatively loud in that world. (And which is one thing that > they didn't pick up on and use in this ep. They have the animal bits sewn > directly onto the apron. The shaman clothing I've seen in museums has the > pieces tied to little leather thongs so they swing free. And crash into > each other as the shaman moves.) But did you notice, that Alti's presence (physical or spiritual) was announced by an unobtrusive rattling or crackling sort of sound? > CR: > > The Ewokazons snapping up the dazed thug that Xena left lying > > around - "Look > > what we got". I usually hate teens in movies, they're so > > juvenile, but > > these were young adults - still with a bit of youthful > > enthusiasm, which made > > them very engaging. Top marks to the writers and actors. > > I, like many others, just loved these young rascally Amazons. They were > very real in they way they acted and also in the way they interacted with > each other. Much more believable to me than the Greek amazons ever were in > terms of being part of a communal life. Perhaps because their acting had > more of an ensemble cast feel to it than the Greek amazons ever showed. > They had a couple of really good characters-like Melosa and Ephiny, but to > me there didn't seem to be so much of a feeling of a community among them. > They were individuals with individual concerns. The Ewokazons were > committed to the tribal unit, not just to personal issues. The Greek > amazons talked about the tribe and the Amazon nation but I never got the > feel of them as a united entity that superceded the individual. > > I did believe that the young Siberian Amazons however, did treasure the > group and were willing to make sacrifices for the group beyond just on the > battlefield. Perhaps it's the furs, but they almost appear to be a herd at > times. The furs most definitely help to give that 'group' impression - but without appearing formalised or regimented in the way that uniforms would. (I guess that's at least partly because furs just don't _look_ like uniforms). > They gang together and run up to look at things all together, like > when they run up to Xena's body or when they hustle up to Xena on the > horse at the last battle after the Berserker is dead. I saw these guys > sacrificing their individual selves to the good of the tribe in day to day > living. Like when Yakut accepts that she must be the next shaman, with no > questions asked and no reluctance shown. No, "Hell no! I want to be a > professional accordian player!" And we just see them working together all > the time-preparing the sacred circle, building the sweat lodge, letting > Xena beat the snot out of them and taking her pinch when she tells them > they need to. Potentially sacrificing not just their bodies but also their > souls. Just total selflessness and commitment to the shared mission of the > tribe. That's not quite how I saw it. They looked to me more like 'a like-minded band of individuals'. As if they were all doing whatever it was they were doing voluntarily, out of shared self-interest, rather than being part of an organisation. A co-operative rather than a platoon. Or, if you like, a hunting party. And, yes, I can quite see them sacrificing themselves for the good of the 'tribe' - but because they individually wanted to, because they thought it was worth doing, not because authority demanded it. That's the impression I got, anyway. (But maybe that's just my anti-authoritarian streak coming out ;) > This COULD be due to the fact that they were so young when they had to > take care of themselves because Xena had killed all their adults. If so, > this really was an excellent directing job of portraying their bonding > that resulted from necessity to survive. Yes, agreed. They were young but quite competent. The result, I imagine, of many hard winters foraging across the steppes. > Snip snip snip of more great moments listed by Thel. > > Damn, this is an excellent ep! > > KT Yes!! cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 08:39:14 -0500 From: "Mark B." Subject: [chakram-refugees] LL in Star The Sunday 'Star' in my local paper had a pic and comment about LL's taste in clothes -- not complementary: Lucy Lawless: The Xena star scores an X with this one. What's the worst: the big bow, the feather trimmed gloves or the too-casual slides? The pic had her in some black strapless dress that was just above the knees with a big white bow front and center. The gloves looked like opera length type -- up above the elbow. For some reason the big bow kinda reminded me of ...Miss Amphipolis even though the color was nothing like in the ep. Well, that's about the best clothing description I think you're going to get from a guy. If anyone wants the pic, I'll be glad to scan and send it to them. Mark ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:12:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Sarah Anne Packard Subject: [chakram-refugees] Claire Stansfield Check this out, a cool article about Claire and her C&C California t-shirt business! :) http://yourbusiness.msn.com/profile-article.aspx?aid=1 - -Sarah, aka the abbagirl- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 11:28:31 -0500 From: "abqbeach" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] LL in Star > The pic had her in some black strapless dress that was just above the > knees with a big white bow front and center. The gloves looked like > opera length type -- up above the elbow. For some reason the big bow > kinda reminded me of ...Miss Amphipolis even though the color was > nothing like in the ep. Sounds like her outfit from the LA Gay Pride Parade. She was also wearing a tiara, and in this case, I think the outfit was actually quite apropos :-) It's not exactly the occasion for a fashion critique, IMO. Photos on MaryD's site: http://www.lucylawless.info/frontrunners/index.php angie in NM http://xenawp.org ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 18:51:05 -0700 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Claire news Saw 'Xena' as I was signing onto hotmail, and thought other Claire fans would enjoy: http://yourbusiness.msn.com/profile-article.aspx?aid=1 GO CLAIRE! BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" _________________________________________________________________ Designer Mail isn't just fun to send, it's fun to receive. Use special stationery, fonts and colors. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN. Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:59:30 -0400 From: "bookdaft" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] LL appearance noted on Tvguide.com Yes, this is a repeat. Wayne Brady's show was cancelled. Lucy was promoting Tarzan at the time. It's worth watching, though. She and Wayne sing a duet. bd - -----Original Message----- From: owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org [mailto:owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org]On Behalf Of HJJH Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 1:51 AM To: X Chakram Subject: [chakram-refugees] LL appearance noted on Tvguide.com 12:00 AM Central WB Channel Tuesday, 20 Wayne Brady 60 mins. Lucy Lawless; Sheryl Lee Ralph; Chaka Kahn; Bob Goen; volunteers Taylor and Trey DeGroat. Release Year: 2003 If this has played before, I didn't catch it. TEXena ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= _____________________________________________________ This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 22:20:10 -0400 From: "bookdaft" Subject: [chakram-refugees] OT: Secrets of the Dead - Amazon Warrior Women I had just finished watching The History Detectives on my local PBS station when I heard a preview for an upcoming episode of Secrets of the Dead - Amazon Warrior Women. It will be on August 4. See - http://www.pbs.org/previews/secrets_warriorwomen/ It appears there is some archaeological data provided in the show. bd ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #187 **************************************