From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #177 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, July 6 2004 Volume 04 : Number 177 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Dinsdale [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy on Entertainers with Byron Allen [IfeRae@aol.] Re: [chakram-refugees] Dinsdale [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Season 4 DVD's [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy on Entertainers with Byron Allen [HJJH ] [chakram-refugees] SotP and Chariots of War [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Akemi and Anokin [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Re: Season 4 DVD [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Season 4 DVD [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] DVD - bonus features review [KTL I wonder how spiny Dinsdale was when he arrived? Fortunately we were > spared that scene.... ;-) > Fortunately for her, Xena had invented the C-section. Surely Hope didn't disdain using that method, simply because she hated the WP. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 01:18:40 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy on Entertainers with Byron Allen Yep, I'd tried zap2it, with variations of Lucy's name. I get Xena, Europtrip, but nothing about the Kicking It show. I found a site for the show -- no listings. - -- Ife In a message dated 7/4/2004 3:59:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, eas01@fast.net writes: > I used Zap2it.com > http://www.zap2it.com/index > > Searching o show name and Allen's name got me squat, so I did > a search on the word LAWLESS and found the following for my > area: > > Title: Kickin' It > Episode: > Description: Actor Johnny Depp; actor/musician Snoop Dogg; > actress Julia Stiles; actor Andy Garcia; actor > Viggo Mortensen; rap artist Master P; actress > Lucy Lawless. > Showing: Date Time Channel > 7/11/2004 2:00PM 5 WTXF > 7/12/2004 3:00AM 5 WTXF ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 18:03:20 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Dinsdale On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 17:07, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 7/4/2004 1:50:18 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > cr@orcon.net.nz > > writes: > > I wonder how spiny Dinsdale was when he arrived? Fortunately we were > > spared that scene.... ;-) > > Fortunately for her, Xena had invented the C-section. Surely Hope didn't > disdain using that method, simply because she hated the WP. > > -- Ife Umm. Contemplating Dinsdale, had Xena also invented chainsaws? cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 18:38:00 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Season 4 DVD's Forwarded message from Ann Reddecliffe (who is having trouble posting to chakram-refugees) - ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From: "A. Reddecliffe" Well the trans Atlantic carrier pigeon finally arrived a few days ago and I have been able to start watching the extras. The director's cuts bits are worth the price alone. OK realistically I am not going to get excited over the alternate graphics (does it matter if the rat toss in LUTD was nose over tail or straight up?) or a few extra words from some minor character. But.... A Good Day has given us years of discussions about Gabrielle's missed spear throw and the death of Phlanagus. Yet here is the missing scene where Xena and Gabrielle discussed it. The ultimate opinion if ever there was one. They took the same points of view as we did - that there were essentially two schools of thought. Either Gabrielle intended to kill him, but hadn't the skill (as Gabrielle said) or that she had the skill but pulled the throw at the last minute (as Xena said). What was new was that Xena said she had done exactly the same thing when her village was attacked, with the same result, that someone died. Then Locked Up and Tied Down got criticised for the speed with which Gabrielle and Thalassa bonded and for the unfathomable chronology. It seemed that Gabrielle arrived and within one brief conversation with Thalassa she had completely bonded and knew everything about the prison and what had happened to Xena. That was fast even by Gabrielle's standards. Yet here were several missing scenes filling in the gaps. We had Gabrielle and Thalassa talking intimately and we had Gabrielle explaining about Xena and Thalassa actually listening to her point of view. We discovered how Gabrielle found her way round the prison and knew where Xena was, Gabrielle talking to the other prisoners and much more explanation from Thalassa about what had really happened. Even a fuller end scene with Xena and Thalassa. The full version fills in the plot holes. The extra scenes for Between The Lines (love this ep) actually didn't add much. One of the beauties of this episode is the stunning visuals and the extra material didn't have much of that. OK, it was interesting to see Renee performing an extended sequence in front of a green screen, but the shorter version with the visual effects was so much better. LIkewise I think the ending was tighter without the extra material from Arminestra, Shakti amd Khidrun - that was a nice idea, but it would have taken away from the pace of the drama. We definitely want more of these. :-) Ann - ------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 03:05:47 -0500 From: HJJH Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy on Entertainers with Byron Allen A search for 'Lucy Lawless' on tvguide.com came up with-- Saturday, July 10 at 9:00 p.m. and Sunday, the 11th at 5:00 p.m. (Central) on Kickin' It on the UPN channel. TEXena ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 20:39:16 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 4 DVD's On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 18:38, cr wrote: > From: "A. Reddecliffe" (snip re A Good Day) > Then Locked Up and Tied Down got criticised for the speed with which > Gabrielle and Thalassa bonded and for the unfathomable chronology. It > seemed that Gabrielle arrived and within one brief conversation with > Thalassa she had completely bonded and knew everything about the prison and > what had happened to Xena. That was fast even by Gabrielle's standards. > Yet here were several missing scenes filling in the gaps. (snip) I haven't watched the 'deleted scenes' of A Good day or LUATD yet, but in the interviews of LUATD one of Xenastaff (I forget who, maybe RT) remarked on how the absence of the cut scenes contributed to the apparent suddenness of the Gab-Thalassa relationship. And, re-watching the ep, it certainly did seem sudden to me. > We discovered how > Gabrielle found her way round the prison and knew where Xena was Yes, I wondered how Gabs knew that. Clairvoyance? > Gabrielle > talking to the other prisoners and much more explanation from Thalassa > about what had really happened. Even a fuller end scene with Xena and > Thalassa. The full version fills in the plot holes. Did Thalassa promise to do anything about those sadistic guards? Personally, I was disappointed that Xena stopped Ursina's mob from chopping them up. ;) > The extra scenes for Between The Lines (love this ep) actually didn't add > much. One of the beauties of this episode is the stunning visuals and the > extra material didn't have much of that. OK, it was interesting to see > Renee performing an extended sequence in front of a green screen, but the > shorter version with the visual effects was so much better. Agreed, there. I rather think what we saw was spare footage, alternate versions, that weren't needed in the final cut. And without the visual effects it was rather flat. This is in contrast to, say, the extra footage in 'Sacrifice', which I would have loved to see included since it threw extra light on Callisto's rather sudden desire to end it all. And of course, any footage with Callisto in it is so much wicked fun to watch! :) > LIkewise I > think the ending was tighter without the extra material from Arminestra, > Shakti amd Khidrun - that was a nice idea, but it would have taken away > from the pace of the drama. Also agreed. Interesting, but it would have diluted the final fight (which happens to be my favourite fight on XWP). If it could have been worked in to the plot _before_ the fight started, it would have been okay. > We definitely want more of these. :-) > > Ann Agreed. cr ... being awfully agreeable tonight :) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 21:24:46 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] SotP and Chariots of War Well, KT's post (on another list) talked me into it! I finally re-watched Sins of the Past _and_ Chariots of War last night. And, they're not bad eps. Some random observations.... The scene right at the start (Xena riding through the smoke) is shot at the exact same spot on Mt Mangere, and I mean exactly within ten yards, as the first time Iolaus saw her in The Warrior Princess. Who says there's no continuity in this show? . (Actually, that'd be a YAXI, since the location in The Warrior Princess was, so far as I can tell, the Pelopponese, while the location in SotP is, of course, near Poteidaia in Chalcidice, a couple of hundred miles away). For no very good reason except the spooky atmosphere, I was sure the starving kid Xena threw her lunch to was going to give a sinister cackle as soon as he unwrapped it and be revealed as some sort of demon or Ares stooge. So, I was wrong. Draco is a rather engaging Warlord of the Week. Gotta love his job interview technique - whoever manages to scratch him with an arrow gets hired. Notice that he actually caught _three_ arrows and the fourth only scratched him. This is _much_ better than Xena managed the following week when she only caught two and the third got her dead centre. Now, an admission - Gabby is not at all bad in SotP. Quite a gutsy chick, if a little naive. My initial anti-Gabby reaction (because I definitely had one) was based on my reading of the Warrior Princess from the Hercules trilogy - she might have reformed but she still meant business and she wasn't about to take on passengers. And I still think that. The Destroyer of Nations (umm, we didn't hear that title till later, okay, the Warrior Princess) would not have let anyone tag along against her better judgement. I guess I just wanted my Xena full-strength and undiluted. Of course, I had the same reaction to Joxer when he first appeared in 'Callisto' - 'watch Xena give this idiot the brush-off'. And the same sinking feeling when it became obvious he was going to be a fixture. But that's by the way... Having just watched A Family Affair, that was very consistent behaviour from Gabs' parents though (even though they were played by different actors). Treat Xena like she's got the plague. Gabs was also unobtrusively useful in the fight on the poles in Amphipolis - tripping up Draco's henchman. And I liked the way Draco disposed of his henchman when he went to back-stab Xena - "A deal's a deal". Altogether one of the more likeable villains. Chariots of War I have mixed feelings about. I thought the son-of-the-warlord stuff dragged a bit. I actually liked Darius and even his kids - the little girl was charming. (Am I getting old and doddery? Nah, not yet. Best thing about the kid was, she didn't say anything. :) Until the end, that is, when she got her voice back. That was all sorts of corny. I can forgive TPTB that minor transgression (I *must* be getting doddery in my old age!) because they didn't make too much of it. Was a neat effect at the start when the girl pointed out the approaching horsemen and they disappeared in a hollow in the hillside by the time her father looked. Xena catching the arrow the hard way I already commented on. Getting Darius to push it all the way through was tough stuff. And then it's poker time... one omission there. It would have left an exit wound - after cauterising her front, Xena should have rolled over and got Darius to do the same to her back. Yes, ouch. Some of the cutting between shots was a little untidy. For example, when Xena and Gabs were confronting the warlord and his son in the sandy river bed, and Darius conveniently appeared on horseback with Xena's chacky, he rode over the side of a grassy hill that didn't match any of the immediate scenery. He should really have appeared over a sand dune. Or at the start, just after the little girl spotted the approaching horsemen on the undulating grassy hillside, they all stopped their horses in a visually quite different location - a lot more trees and a muddy track. In fact it may have been quite nearby, but visually it looked like a discontinuity. TPTB got better at that sort of thing in later eps, I think. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 04:50:41 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] Akemi and Anokin > cr wrote: > > > I don't agree with you about Akemi's death. Xena was all cut up about > > Akemi's death. She was mourning the kid. Why would she want revenge? > > (Of course, at that time she didn't know about the 40,000 barbecued > > Higuchians, but even if she had, why would she want revenge?) She didn't > at > > the time it happened, she didn't 35 years later in the 'now' of Friend in > > Need. > > Cheryl answered: > Because she was all cut up about it. Now I'm thinking she has time to brood > about Akemi's death. Akemi made her feel things she probably hasn't felt > for a long time - if not love at least a very deep affection for some one. > Akemi then goes and dies on her. Not only dies but makes Xena play a big > role in her death. Xena perhaps by the time Sin Trade happens has thought > about this and begins perhaps to even hate Akemi for using her and then > abandoning her. Oh boy--I just don't see that at all. I don't think Xena was very involved in caring about Akemi at all until she killed herself. Xena was after the money. And then suddenly this physically inept poet, this silly little child, this pawn whom Xena is with just to use to get money, pulls off a very complex, very physically and mentally courageous act and then accepts the full consequences of it, just like any warrior might. I think it's at that point that she gains Xena's respect. I wonder at this moment, when Xena said, "She broke my heart", I don't think that was meant in a romantic way. I think it wasn't until Akemi killed herself that her courage, integrity, intelligence and sheer gutsiness became apparent to Xena. And her death (not one for the Greater Good, but a useless, totally societally ordered death, like Naima's intended death in Between The Lines), was what "broke Xena's heart". It wasn't a failed or short-changed love between them that made Xena say that. But that losing such a person in that way was such a shame. When Anakin comes along Xena may try to recreat the same > relationship she had with Akemi but Anakin rejects her thus destroying > another part of Xena's humanity. Alti of course knows all about Akemi and > used Anakin to deepen the wounds Akemi caused and turn Xena even more to the > dark. Again, I don't see this at all. It's very hard to say anything with any surety (or at least as sure as we ever get) about Anokin, because there's so little there. Actually, I watched Sin Trades today (on my newly arrived DVD set, YAY!) and noticed for the first time the smirky look on Alti's face when Xena is rebuffed by Anokin. It struck me that it was purely a set up. I wonder if Alti didn't kill Anokin, again to display her power to Xena. To lure Xena into wanting to go to the other world so that she could see Alti's power at work even there. I think Anokin was totally in thrall to Alti. She's like a cat in heat when Alti puts her hands on her and displays her to Xena as proof of her power over Amazons. Alti done put a spell on that girl. And I think it lasts through her death into the other world. Why not? Alti gets her power from the world of the dead. So she put a spell on Anokin. Xena obviously has some feelings for the girl--she gives her that famous "friend" label. But I also think (as Borias literally says) that Alti has put a spell on Xena also, to get her involved with Anokin. I mean, what the heck does Anokin mean when she says to Xena, "You poisoned my soul." Did Alti make her think that? What the heck did Xena do to generate that remark? Since we didn't get a commentary on Sin Trades, I guess we'll never know. Of course once Xena has more or less reformed she realizes that Akemi > had to what she did to avenge her family. Xena no longer is burden by > unreasonable hate and self-pity so 35 years later she is more than willing > to help Akemi. > I don't see Xena wallowing in hate for Akemi ever. Nor having self-pity either. Not Xena in any phase of her life. KT > CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 05:13:51 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Re: Season 4 DVD > On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 14:17, Cheryl Ande wrote: > > > > Xena's response is known. When Anokin rejects her Xena says "that's the > > problem with the dead you can't take revenge on them." To which Alti > > replies something like "hee hee wanna bet" (I paraphrase). It is Anokin's > > rejection of Xena that gives Alti the ability to influence Xena. Alti > > uses Xena to get her revenge on Cyane and the Amazons that goes beyond just > > murder but the imprisonment of their souls. Anokin's rejection of Xena is > > a pivotal moment in the episode - Anokin by saying Xena destroyed her soul > > just reinforces Xena's own growing opinion of herself as corrupting and > > evil. It is this opinion that Alti nurtures so Xena will eventually kill > > the Amazons for her. > > > > CherylA > CR replied: > > BUT - Xena's campaign against the Amazons was prompted by Alti. It wasn't > Xena's reaction to Anokin's rejection. Yesssss. I don't think one directly caused the other. Anokin was a show of power for Alti. We don't know what happened between her and Xena. But I just don't see where Evil Xena at that point in her life would fall giddily in love with anyone, never mind some powerless, malleable, insignificant servant of another. That was just a toehold for Alti to > work on. Without the presence of Alti, probably Xena would have 'got over > it' and nothing much would have happened. And Alti had plenty of > opportunity to influence Xena, Anokin's rejection was just one minor factor. > Hell, ya know, Xena's screwing Borias, taking mini-vacations with Alti, spying on the Amazon's banya, strutting around visiting Cyan and being in the early stages of pregnancy. When the hell did she have TIME to become "friendly" with Anokin? That was just too amorphus a bit for me. It's almost like they meant to cut her out of the story, but they didn't get all of it and left just a few tidbits in to make us wonder. But it does show Xena learning how to get to the land of the dead. > Also, you say Xena was getting her revenge on Cyane and the Amazons - for > what? Was it their raid that killed Anokin? Did they have anything to do > with (dead) Anokin rejecting Xena? This was never really spelt out IIRC, Hey--that's true. Who DID attack Xena's camp? > maybe something ended up on the cutting room floor. To me, Xena's mass > Amazoncide looked more like gratuitous 'because I can' - 'Alti offered me a > better deal'. And you realize how bogus that was? Cyan had beat Alti in the brainiac olympics. (I think it was Vicki who once said at a con that they looked like they were in a passing gas contest in that scene.) Why would Xena not immediately switch to following the winner? Sure, Alti may promise her power, but Cyan has more than Alti. And power and skills she didn't have drew Evil Xena like nothing else did. AND Cyan had beat the snot out of Xena. Yet suddenly Xena can just kill her, fighting in the same environment? Even with the tricks, how come Xena is now the stronger one? So strong that she takes out the whole freaken tribe? Phhhhfffft. > > (XT, KT - either of you got any theories about this? :) Uh...no. I never give my opinion. > > > That is, IMO, quite unlike Xena's reaction to Caesar's betrayal in Destiny, > which was quite sufficient and needed no other external influence to send her > off the rails. > > cr Well now, it was M'Lila's death that drove her off the rails. There's one parallel. BUT again, M'Lila was strong, powerful and had things to teach Xena. Unlike the whimpering little Anokin. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 05:20:49 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Season 4 DVD > On the other hand, Xena's rampage is at least understandable, given Caesar's > betrayal of her, his attempt to crucify her, the murder of Xena's friend > M'Lila by Caesar's thugs.... Xena's reaction may be disproportionate but > it just demonstrates that she is, after all, human. Xena lists are full of > people who react in disproportionate fashion (though on a more modest scale) > to a TV show, and I suspect most of them are human (though I sometimes have > sneaking doubts about KT..... :) > > cr Well, do you at least consider me mammalian? GROWL KT above amoeba ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 05:32:11 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] DVD - bonus features review On Thu, 17 Jun 2004, Xena Torres wrote: > Actually, Lucy stated a long time ago that if Xena didn't kill women and > children it was from lack of opertunity. Meaning, she wasn't against it, but > they didn't attack her, so they got to live. I mean, if Borias hadn't saved > Otere in "Sin Trade" Xena would have run her through without question. And I don't think I agree with that. In the script, Otere says that she doesn't think Xena would have killed her even if Borias hadn't stopped her. She says because Xena knew that what Alti predicted would happen. So killing the child would not prevent that. Otere saw Xena as a practical kind of killer. If she didn't have to kill the child, she wouldn't. Children died in Xena's attacks on villages. But I don't think even Evil Xena had much of a stomach for personally killing children. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 05:51:52 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Family Affair and Sickness and In Hell, etc. On Sun, 20 Jun 2004, Cheryl Ande wrote: Snip snip snip > > In Family Affair when Hope is pretending that Xena beat her so Gabby's > family would turn Xena out did you notice the injuries on Hope are the > same Gabby had after the gabdrag. It gives that little smirk Hope has a > little more oomph. After all she not only manages to turn the family > against Xena but is able to remind Xena that she hasn't always treated > her friend very well. Oh that darn Xena. Just because Gabrielle in her thick-headedness led Xena's only child to slaughter, she has to go all warlordy and try to get vengeance for his death. TCH! I mean heck, Xena has always forgiven Gabrielle in the past. She forgives her incessant sniping at Xena's character and her impetuous poorly thought out actions that lead herself and Xena (and sometimes many other innocent people also) into danger. Xena even forgives Gabrielle for betraying her to Ming T'ien, fumbling the mission because of her arrogant belief that she knows Xena and her past better than Xena does, that she knows life better than Xena does, that she's much more expert at figuring out the solution to problems than Xena is. And of course, it's her inability to correctly read Ming T'ien's character that ultimately leads to Xena's imprisonment, to her getting locked into a painful restraint device, to her almost getting killed. All because Gabrielle blithely foiled Xena's plans, figuring that she had a better grasp of what was necessary than Xena did. Sure Xena can forgive all this, but she can't go just a little bit further and get over Gabrielle delivering her innocent child into the hands of Xena's enemies to be slaughtered? Why the Tartarus not? Just because Solon is an innocent little boy? Just because taking Solon to the centaurs, humbling herself before her greatest enemy at that time, one who considered her a despicable human being, lower than dirt, one who felt absolute contempt towards her, and begging him to take her child to keep him safe from herself was the only good thing evil Xena ever did? Just because Gabrielle's defiance of Xena undid all this? And turned all the grief, heartache and pain that Solon suffered from being apart from his mother and that Xena suffered from being apart from her child into a failed sacrifice, a useless torment, making all their years of anguish worthless and all their suffering in vain? Damn, impatient, unnecessarily violent warrior woman! How can she possibly think this is a reason for not treating her friend well? Actually, aside from all that, I don't think the make-up is really the same. Yes, there's a wound on Gabrielle's right shoulder, but her face after her free ride around the countryside was far more cut and bruised. Besides, wasn't Hope (or more accurately, Hopeless), just a little floating pile of ash when Xena so childlessly, uh, childishly lost her cool? She was busy drifting over to the Herc show then, wasn't she? So how would she know how Gabrielle looked after that needlessly mean-spirited drag? Oh-of course-her Daddy could have told her. I bet that Hopeless only faked those wounds anyway. I'm sure she just cast a spell on everybody to make them think she was wounded. She's hardly the type to really hurt herself. Remember what a baby she was over Callisto brushing her hair. (Gods-remember THAT wig? That wig must have been the daughter of Renee's wig in Between the Lines.) It was a nice way to get Xena's goat. Maybe that's where she got that wig-from Xena's goat. KT > > > CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2004 08:43:26 -0700 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] DVD - bonus features review >I don't think I agree with that. In the script, Otere says that she >doesn't think Xena would have killed her even if Borias hadn't stopped >her. Wrong scene. That's the scene where Alti tells Xena Otere will take her power and encourages Xena to kill the child. The scene I'm talking about is the one in the village when Anokin is killed and Otere holds a pitchfork on Xena. Xena rises, draws her sword and moves towards her, and had EVERY intention of killing her, when Borias rode in and saved her. BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2004 13:52:16 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] DVD - bonus features review > >I don't think I agree with that. In the script, Otere says that she > >doesn't think Xena would have killed her even if Borias hadn't stopped > >her. > > Wrong scene. That's the scene where Alti tells Xena Otere will take her > power and encourages Xena to kill the child. The scene I'm talking about is > the one in the village when Anokin is killed and Otere holds a pitchfork on > Xena. Xena rises, draws her sword and moves towards her, and had EVERY > intention of killing her, when Borias rode in and saved her. Oh, thanks for pointing that out. Because I went back to watch that scene and it cleared up a question I had. That attack was initiated by Xena and Borias and it was an attack on Otere's village. I had been thinking that someone had attacked X&B's camp. But I still don't think that Xena would have killed that child. The little girl, with enormous courage, is about to attack Xena in defense of her village. Xena, stunned in despair at the death of Anokin, draws her sword also in defense. Would she have killed Otere or just slashed aside the pitchfork? There was no threat to Xena from that child. I think she was also possibly concerned with defending Anokin's body from being desecrated by being pronged. Look at Xena's face-she's acting on remote. When Borias chides her with, "She's only a child", she quietly lowers her sword. There's no viciousness in her. She's grieving for Anokin, she's not into the vengeance stage yet. I don't think she would have killed Otere in this scene either-I think she would have just stopped her. I don't think she realized what she was doing-she's acting on instinct when she pulls her sword. I don't think she even realized it was a child threatening her. I really enjoyed Otere. She's another character I'd love to have seen more of. You know, we're all focused on Gabrielle taking the Warrior Pot to Egypt to be resurrected in the (please, gods) movie. But as I watched Sin Trades again, I thought hey-THESE guys, the Siberian Amazons, should be involved in resurrecting Xena. She redeemed them from Alti's curse (which being reforming Xena, she takes the responsibility for, having helped put this into effect and thus needing to fix). Without Xena, Alti by herself could never have done to the Siberian Amazons what she did. Perhaps eventually she would have either found another stooge or figured some other way to claim their soul power. But at least in this scenario, her success at capturing and imprisoning their souls is largely due to Xena's fighting and strategic skill. (Lame as that is, since as I said before, Cyan working alone had already kicked Xena's (bare) a$$. Perhaps she just needs the inspiration of naked ladies in her face?) Anyway, another thing I was thinking about when I woke up this morning was how heavy Alti's costume was and how strongly it must have smelled-leather and fur have distinctive, very earthy natural odors. Modern stuff just doesn't have that emanating "presence". And I was thinking about how these big, layered outfits that Evil Xena, Borias and Alti wore affected both the way we saw them and also the way the actors moved and presented the characters to us. Alti was always totally in Xena's space-there's never any distance between them. She's such a malevolent, dark, broodingly sinister figure. And except for when she's fighting Xena in the air at the end of the ep, Alti just doesn't move much. She's "set" in her place. Which was usually hulking right over Xena's shoulder, whispering vile malevolence into her little pink ear. I wonder if some of this, the placing of the characters in relation to each other, evolved because Claire is so big. She's one of the few (if the only-unless Varia was taller than Xena?) women who were taller than Lucy. Most of the men were either slightly shorter, the same, or barely taller than Xena. (You know, the daddy in Cradle of War is one of the few people whom we've seen Xena having to really bend her head back to look in the eye.) Anyway since Claire was so big, which was enhanced by that costume, I wonder if Alti being glued to Xena was storyboarded into the script at the beginning or if TJ just decided to place them that way after seeing the costumed Claire in comparison to Lucy. Damn, I wish they'd done a commentary on Sin Trades with Rob, RJ and TJ. (Hey-are RJ and TJ related? They got the same last name) And I wish Claire was involved in some of the interviews at least. She's so funny and also I'd love to hear her talk about finding and playing the character of Alti. You know that's something else that would be great to have on a DVD set. A collection of the stories that the guest stars have told at the cons. About being picked for the part, arriving on the set, their responses to suddenly having to pretend to be skilled warriors, etc. I'd love to have a disc of that sometime in the future. What I'd REALLY love to have though would be a set of just the Evil Xena eps, with full commentary from Rob, Lucy, Martin, Jacqueline, Claire, Vicki, the writers and the directors of these eps. I'd buy that set in a heartbeat. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2004 09:31:24 +0100 From: "A. Reddecliffe" Subject: [chakram-refugees] DVD extras ** second attempt to send this* Well the trans Atlantic carrier pigeon finally arrived a few days ago and I have been able to start watching the extras. The director's cuts bits are worth the price alone. OK realistically I am not going to get excited over the alternate graphics (does it matter if the rat toss in LUTD was nose over tail or straight up?) or a few extra words from some minor character. But.... A Good Day has given us years of discussions about Gabrielle's missed spear throw and the death of Phlanagus. Yet here is the missing scene where Xena and Gabrielle discussed it. The ultimate opinion if ever there was one. They took the same points of view as we did - that there were essentially two schools of thought. Either Gabrielle intended to kill him, but hadn't the skill (as Gabrielle said) or that she had the skill but pulled the throw at the last minute (as Xena said). What was new was that Xena said she had done exactly the same thing when her village was attacked, with the same result, that someone died. Then Locked Up and Tied Down got criticised for the speed with which Gabrielle and Thalassa bonded and for the unfathomable chronology. It seemed that Gabrielle arrived and within one brief conversation with Thalassa she had completely bonded and knew everything about the prison and what had happened to Xena. That was fast even by Gabrielle's standards. Yet here were several missing scenes filling in the gaps. We had Gabrielle and Thalassa talking intimately and we had Gabrielle explaining about Xena and Thalassa actually listening to her point of view. We discovered how Gabrielle found her way round the prison and knew where Xena was, Gabrielle talking to the other prisoners and much more explanation from Thalassa about what had really happened. Even a fuller end scene with Xena and Thalassa. The full version fills in the plot holes. The extra scenes for Between The Lines (love this ep) actually didn't add much. One of the beauties of this episode is the stunning visuals and the extra material didn't have much of that. OK, it was interesting to see Renee performing an extended sequence in front of a green screen, but the shorter version with the visual effects was so much better. LIkewise I think the ending was tighter without the extra material from Arminestra, Shakti amd Khidrun - that was a nice idea, but it would have taken away from the pace of the drama. We definitely want more of these. :-) Ann ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #177 **************************************