From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #173 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Friday, July 2 2004 Volume 04 : Number 173 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Dinsdale [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: FIN (was: Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade 2) [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Tale of Two Muses ["Mark B." ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Family Affair [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Dinsdale [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Tale of Two Muses [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Dinsdale [Lee Daley ] Re: FIN (was: Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade 2) ["Janice Stewart" So somewhere between Sacrifice 2 and Family Affair, the emphasis got > shifted. > I was expecting (from the description in Sacrifice) something truly horrific > > and lethal - and Dinsdale just wasn't up to it. One could imagine him > tearing a villager apart, but one could also imagine a mob of villagers with > > pitchforks and torches finishing him off. > If I recall, Xena's the one who first describes Dinsdale as so horrific, but it's based on what she imagines, since he hasn't even been born yet. She's figuring the combo of Ares and Hope will produce something terrible. She's right about him physically. He is a "monster" and quite lethal. But he's a "paper" monster, in that he doesn't seem to have the instinct, intent or intellect to commit mayhem for the hell of it. You're probably right that a bunch of villagers could've dealt with him if they'd tried. He's not evil. (Maybe he's "daddy's boy" in that sense. Heh.) Perhaps TPTB initially did intend for him to be much worse. I like the way they decided to portray him in the flesh, so to speak. Perhaps he got his bit of humanity from his grandma? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 01:07:34 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: FIN (was: Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade 2) In a message dated 6/30/2004 1:41:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > Well, I'm a sucker for irony and tend to see it everywhere. In this > instance I suppose the irony is that Gabrielle's concern for Xena's soul > almost got Xena killed in The Debt (and possibly other occasions); while in > FIN Gabrielle's immediate instinct was quite the opposite, to revive Xena at > > whatever cost to her soul. >. Ah, yes, that is ironic. Even after she learns the possible price to those souls, Gabs' initial response is, "I don't care." Heh. > But anyway, I saw FIN as the completion of Xena's quest. I don't mean to > > suggest that outcome was inevitable (that would be a rather depressing > view!); but it was one of a number of possible outcomes that were (IMO) > entirely compatible with the overall story in the series. I suppose a > Gabcentric view might be that it's the story of how Gabrielle grew up to > succeed Xena. My Xenacentric view is that it's the story of Xena, start to > > finish, complete. > Yes, I see it as Xena's story in terms of her ultimate battle for good. Despite Gabs' search for her "way," I believe her primary quest up until AFIN was to help Xena on hers. Once Xena's ended, Gabs could focus more on herself. In my ideal scenario, Gabs spends a few years (still in contact with Spirit Xena) fulfilling her various dreams and gaining confidence in herself apart from Xena. Spirit Xena is happy about that, as she always feared she was an albatross to Gabs, more than the other way around. Gabs comes upon a way to bring Xena back, and the two face the future together less burdened by Xena's shadow. Best of both individual and relationship worlds. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:46:52 -0500 From: "Mark B." Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Tale of Two Muses IfeRae@aol.com wrote: >It amazes me how I see more in eps each time I view them. As I viewed my DVD >version of Muses, I noticed for the first time that Gabs appears to be >filling Tara in on Auto's role, as he stands in front of them early on. Also, >during Xena's "dance" moves, the background characters seem to be grinning at Lucy >in a "real" way. Apparently she had some trouble with her steps. From the >bystanders' faces, it seems more may have been going on (e.g., kidding around) >than was scripted. > I had the same general feeling even the first time I watched it. Everyone just seemed to be having a 'good time' making that ep. Specifically in that last scene that you mentioned, it also seemed that LL was having lots of fun too -- that smile/laugh just seemed to be LL coming through.! Mark B. > >-- Ife >========================================================= >This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. >To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with >"unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. >Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. >========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 22:44:23 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Family Affair On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 14:26, Cheryl Ande wrote: > > Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:14:16 +1200 > > From: cr > > Subject: [chakram-refugees] Dinsdale > > > > > > But wait a minute - this is supposed to be The Destroyer, the ultimate > > evil > > > creature that will bring the world to an end, and I'm feeling _sorry_ for > > him? That's the problem. He just isn't scary enough. ...> So > > that's > > really the problem with Dinsdale - he was oversold in his advance > > > billing and couldn't live up to it. > > Remember Dinsy is just a baby destroyer. He 's just developing his powers, > afterall. That's a good point. Though the ep never mentions it, maybe he was destined to grow far more fearsome as he grew up. > Right now he's just eating a sheperd or two he hasn't gotten > around eating lots of people (I assume that's what he is suppose to do > though I agree it is unclear how he alone was suppose destroy all of > Dahak's enemies). Let alone 'lay waste to all gods' (Ares' phrase). > Also he is Gabby's grandson maybe he humanity skipped a > generation and he has inherited Gabby's warm and fuzzy genes. Since you mention genes - and bearing in mind the weird mutant offspring in Married With Fishpaste - one has to wonder about the gabfamily genes, maybe it's Gabs who managed to skip a generation We can blame it all on Herodotus :) > > Actually, I had more sympathy for Dinsdale and Hope than I did for Gabs' > > family. What a surly bunch, and particularly her father Herodotus. > > ... > > Yes after spending sometime with Gabby's family we do understand why she > hitched up her skirts and ran after Xena as fast as she could. Herodotus > is the kind of father who would make homeless ex-warlords look good. > > CherylA I actually felt rather sorry for Gabs' mother.... she showed signs of humanity but was obviously cowed by her husband. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 22:39:26 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Dinsdale On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 17:07, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/30/2004 1:41:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > So somewhere between Sacrifice 2 and Family Affair, the emphasis got > > shifted. > > I was expecting (from the description in Sacrifice) something truly > > horrific > > > > and lethal - and Dinsdale just wasn't up to it. One could imagine him > > tearing a villager apart, but one could also imagine a mob of villagers > > with > > > > pitchforks and torches finishing him off. > > If I recall, Xena's the one who first describes Dinsdale as so horrific, > but it's based on what she imagines, since he hasn't even been born yet. > She's figuring the combo of Ares and Hope will produce something terrible. No, actually it was Ares: ARES Our child will be the first of what Dahak calls the six destroyers. Insidious creatures with no souls, who eat of the living and the righteous and lay waste to all gods. 'Lay waste to all gods' certainly sounds formidable - but Dinsdale had no 'powers' - I can't see him 'laying waste' to even a moderately competent god like Discord. > She's right about him physically. He is a "monster" and quite lethal. But > he's a "paper" monster, in that he doesn't seem to have the instinct, > intent or intellect to commit mayhem for the hell of it. You're probably > right that a bunch of villagers could've dealt with him if they'd tried. > He's not evil. (Maybe he's "daddy's boy" in that sense. Heh.) Perhaps > TPTB initially did intend for him to be much worse. I like the way they > decided to portray him in the flesh, so to speak. Perhaps he got his bit > of humanity from his grandma? > > -- Ife Oh dear not that again But I think TPTB did initially intend to portray him as something far more fearsome, as you say. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 23:02:50 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Tale of Two Muses On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 17:57, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > It amazes me how I see more in eps each time I view them. As I viewed my > DVD version of Muses, I noticed for the first time that Gabs appears to be > filling Tara in on Auto's role, as he stands in front of them early on. > Also, during Xena's "dance" moves, the background characters seem to be > grinning at Lucy in a "real" way. Apparently she had some trouble with her > steps. From the bystanders' faces, it seems more may have been going on > (e.g., kidding around) than was scripted. > > -- Ife I just watched that ep. Not that I have a clue about dancing, but would I be right in thinking that Tara (Shiri Appleby) is a pretty cool dancer? Not one of the greatest eps, but it looked as if the cast were relaxing and having fun. Lucy was channelling High Pwiestess Leah at times. As Rob said in the interview, LL couldn't pick up the dance steps so Xena just faked it (or words to that effect). Did you notice, when Gabs told the magistrate Istafan that "It looks as though you'll have a real election, now" the guy was having trouble keeping a straight face? Anyone who's seen the bloopers will know why... I did like the interview with Rob Tapert and Michael Hurst, btw. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2004 19:18:47 -0400 From: Lee Daley Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Dinsdale >'Lay waste to all gods' certainly sounds formidable - but Dinsdale had no >'powers' - I can't see him 'laying waste' to even a moderately competent god >like Discord. Actually he was pretty "cute". That's his power, a slutty Goddess like Discord would jump into the sack with him and get perforated. LeeD ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2004 19:27:38 -0500 From: "Janice Stewart" Subject: Re: FIN (was: Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade 2) - ----- Original Message ----- > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 01:57:45 EDT > From: IfeRae@aol.com > Subject: Re: FIN (was: Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade 2) > > > That's why I took it as an affirmation of the relationship as I saw depicted > on TV. They shared a commitment to the greater good. Gabrielle always wanted > Xena to find value -- achieve some peace -- in her soul. Xena felt that > Gabs' influence had helped make that possible. Xena could not have respected > herself for choosing life with Gabs over the fate of the trapped souls (regardless > of how unbelievable we thought that situation). Gabs wouldn't have wanted > Xena to live with that new (and intentionally chosen) burden on her conscience. > > > It's "wrong" to some fans that this meant they couldn't be together in the > flesh, so to speak. For me, their love achieved the "higher meaning" of their > time together -- Xena's sacrifice for the ideals Gabs believed in, Gabs' > sacrifice for the honor and peace so important to Xena. So, while I agree with the > gist of what you say, I didn't find it "ironic" at all. I saw it as a logical > outcome of the choices and values they'd been supporting in each other from > the beginning. I'm not saying that was the *only* outcome possible, but it > took the outcome to a higher level in terms of what they were willing to do to > back up what they said. > > - -- Ife You know, this makes me wonder who made the greater sacrifice. From a very human point of view, I'd rather be Xena than Gabby in this particular situation. XWPacolyte Cupid and Psyche... Antony and Cleopatra... Xena and Gabrielle. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #173 **************************************