From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #171 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, June 30 2004 Volume 04 : Number 171 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: FIN (was: Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade 2) [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Dinsdale [cr ] Re: FIN (was: Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade 2) [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Callisto [cr ] Re: FIN (was: Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade 2) [Lee Daley As for Xena dieing - I had mixed feelings. In a way, it gave a sense of > completion - that we'd seen the end of the story. If she'd walked off into > > the sunset, like Herc and Iolaus did, there'd be the feeling that she was > having more adventures next week that we'll never get to see because the > information has been lost forever. >> Well, that's where my imagination kicked in, but first I had to figure a "logical" way for her to come back. I accepted the ending we got -- even thought it one of many appropriate versions . However, I wouldn't have minded her walking off into the sunset, as a sense of finality hits me whenever I think of AFIN or hear the concluding music. > > > And, it was by her own choice, and in a good cause. It would have been > different, more unsettling, if Xena had died unintentionally by enemy > action. > In a way, TPTB had it both ways - the only way Xena was ever going to be > killed (i.e. defeated) was facing overwhelming odds in battle - and, the > only > way Xena was ever going to die was if _she_ chose to. Well, she managed to > > accomplish both. >> Yes, I see it that way also. Again, I particularly like that she fought her last battle on the spiritual plane. I said earlier that Sin Trade was the way I wanted to see her ride off into the sunset at that point. She'd fought a spiritual battle then too. But since she wasn't dead then, I was glad to see her geared up to continue on. I guess AFIN took the spiritual quest/battle to its conclusion. Of course, what we like -- the choice aspect, is what bothers a lot of folks who preferred she choose life with Gabs. I'm just glad it was a choice -- not (as you suggest) an accident or someone else's doing. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:14:16 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Dinsdale I was just watching Family Affair, and had some more thoughts about Spiny Norman aka Dinsdale. In the past I've said he was a rather unconvincing rubber monster. Well, I'll qualify that a bit. As a rubber monster, he's okay. Not as frightening as Grindl in the Ring trilogy, but way way better than 'Dahak' inside Iolaus's soul in 'Redemption', for example. If he'd just been, say, some man who annoyed the gods and they transformed him into a monster, then he would have been quite believable. Adequately scary as a monster-of-the-week. He was even rather sad, in his encounters with his mother Hope. I could feel sorry for him. But wait a minute - this is supposed to be The Destroyer, the ultimate evil creature that will bring the world to an end, and I'm feeling _sorry_ for him? That's the problem. He just isn't scary enough. He doesn't even have as much power as Deimos or Discord! He isn't even in the same county as daddy Ares. Come to that, he wasn't as scary as Hope. So that's really the problem with Dinsdale - he was oversold in his advance billing and couldn't live up to it. Actually, I had more sympathy for Dinsdale and Hope than I did for Gabs' family. What a surly bunch, and particularly her father Herodotus. I'd rather spend a day with Cyrene and her axe than Gabs' olds on their best behaviour. I can see why Gurkhan terminated 'em, given Herodotus's people skills it was kinda inevitable. ... And then, even after that, they're still the cause of trouble and suffering for Xena.... ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:16:05 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: FIN (was: Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade 2) On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 17:25, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/28/2004 12:21:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > As for Xena dieing - I had mixed feelings. In a way, it gave a sense > > of completion - that we'd seen the end of the story. If she'd walked > > off into > > > > the sunset, like Herc and Iolaus did, there'd be the feeling that she was > > having more adventures next week that we'll never get to see because the > > information has been lost forever. >> > > Well, that's where my imagination kicked in, but first I had to figure a > "logical" way for her to come back. I accepted the ending we got -- even > thought it one of many appropriate versions . However, I wouldn't have > minded her walking off into the sunset, as a sense of finality hits me > whenever I think of AFIN or hear the concluding music. I'm still agreeing with you (gosh this is getting a bit unsettling, isn't it? ;) I could have accepted a 'sunset' ending, provided it was sufficently well done and dramatic. It would have needed to be a lot more so than the Herc finale though, or it would have just seemed too 'happy', too routine, too anticlimactic. One thing the ending of Xena did have to be, whatever it was, was big. > > And, it was by her own choice, and in a good cause. It would have been > > different, more unsettling, if Xena had died unintentionally by enemy > > action. > > In a way, TPTB had it both ways - the only way Xena was ever going to be > > killed (i.e. defeated) was facing overwhelming odds in battle - and, the > > only > > way Xena was ever going to die was if _she_ chose to. Well, she managed > > to > > > > accomplish both. >> > > Yes, I see it that way also. Again, I particularly like that she fought > her last battle on the spiritual plane. I said earlier that Sin Trade was > the way I wanted to see her ride off into the sunset at that point. She'd > fought a spiritual battle then too. But since she wasn't dead then, I was > glad to see her geared up to continue on. I guess AFIN took the spiritual > quest/battle to its conclusion. Of course, what we like -- the choice > aspect, is what bothers a lot of folks who preferred she choose life with > Gabs. I'm just glad it was a choice -- not (as you suggest) an accident or > someone else's doing. > > -- Ife Hmm, as you probably realise, I've always considered Xena had the right to do what she wanted with her own life. Of course, it's ironic in the circumstances that staying dead was important for Xena's spiritual wellbeing, which was something that Gabrielle was always so (irritatingly!) solicitous of in Season 3... As Xena said on another occasion, gotta love the irony... cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:22:22 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Callisto Every time I open the Season 4 DVD's, there on the inside cover looking straight at me, is Callisto, balancing the chacky on her finger and looking mildly amused. She is just soooo good! Lovely choice of illustration, too. Of course, Ides was the only ep she was in for the whole season. Season 3 was Callisto's season. I would have loved to see Callisto meet up with Alti - now that would have been something to see! cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:02:50 -0400 From: Lee Daley Subject: Re: FIN (was: Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade 2) At 01:25 AM 6/29/2004 -0400, cr & ife wrote (with much snippage) > > > And, it was by her own choice, and in a good cause. It would have been > > different, more unsettling, if Xena had died unintentionally by enemy > > action. > >Yes, I see it that way also. Again, I particularly like that she fought her >last battle on the spiritual plane. I agree with the comment that it was a good thing that the battles were fought on a spiritual plane, where will is power. It is really the only device where the classic mano a mano (or more properly femme a mano for FIN or femme y femme for ST). Unfortunately in the chaos of real world battles, who lives and who dies is purely a matter of chance. This worked reality worked well in Pvt. Ryan and Band of Brothers, but just wouldn't have made it in Xena, although it was hinted at in ITADITH. LeeD, Warrior Jester ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #171 **************************************