From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #169 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, June 28 2004 Volume 04 : Number 169 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade 2 [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Fate vs Freewill. [Richan@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: SIn Trade [] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: SIn Trade [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Fate vs Freewill. [IfeRae@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 02:55:15 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade In a message dated 6/25/2004 12:41:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 04:59, Xena Torres wrote: > >>D'you mean he got the Emmy for the two eps, or just for FA? > > > >He just got an emmy for FA. > > OK. I never noticed the score in FA, whereas I (obviously!) did in Sin > Trade. >> I watched FA the other night. I'd never realized how much of the music in AFIN it had -- especially near the end. In fact, a lot of the AFIN music has bits from previous eps. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 02:55:14 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade 2 In a message dated 6/25/2004 12:41:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > Umm, 'powers' is a personal attribute, like 'abilities', whereas 'power' is > > an external attribute like 'status'. > > I'm obviously reading too much into this :) >> Possibly. > >>Xena says 'Gabrielle, you're the best thing in my life' and Gabrielle > >>replies > >>'I love you, Xena' - I wonder if that was an intentional reference back > >>to the last time she said that, in Maternal Instincts, when it notably > >>didn't work? >> > > > >Ironically, I think it's Xena's main cue that "love" is the word they need > >to free the Amazons. She's been seeing Gabs all along, and Gabs > >essentially gives her the answer in the vision. > > Errm, yes. You're probably right about that, I have to admit. ;) >> What I like about that, is that Alti unwittingly gives Xena the word to undo what both of them did in the past to trap the Amazons. Alti thinks the crucifixion scene is the "coup de grace" for defeating Xena, but our girl turns it around to defeat Alti. > After Sin Trade, all the other heaven/hell, redemption in Higuchi, > >etc. stuff was icing on the cake. The Xena who rides off into the sunset > >at the end irepresents the fulfillment of the Xena I saw in Sins of the > >Past. > > > >-- Ife > > Nice idea! It'd work for me (though possibly not for Gabfans / > subtexters). > Only snag I can see is the Vision... that'd be a big loose end. >> Or, another battle to fight. She's still her flawed self, with another round to go, just after so beautifully triumphing with the Amazons and defeating Alti. She was a doer. What saddened me most about AFIN was that her "doing" was over -- no more snags or loose ends to fix. As for Gabs, I saw AFIN more as the season ender (or beginning) in terms of her story. But you're probably right, in that neither ST or AFIN elevated the relationship in quite the same way as they did the two characters as individuals. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 16:54:00 EDT From: Richan@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Fate vs Freewill. I was watching "Tru Calling" the other day when it struck me. Tru Davies was one of the fates. At least I initially thought so. I began thinking that Tru was similar to one of Piers Anthony's incarnations of immortality characters Niobe from With a Tangled Skein. In the incarnations of immortality series the incarnations, death, time, fate, war, etc. take their offices by causing the death of the previous incarnation or being "recruited" when one of the incarnations goes into retirement. Then I began thinking about Ares adjusting to his lack of office in "Ten Little War Lords" or Aphrodite stepping out of her office in "Love Take a Holiday."In Gabrielle's case I'm not sure if Xena was killed or simply chose retirement. Next I began wondering if these stories were warnings to us who are so bound to our offices or jobs that they become the ruler by which we measure ourselves? I have to ask myself between Xena and Gabrielle who carried the ruler and who carried the yardstick? And was the yardstick circular, a bit like Ares' Sword of War? But most of all who currently possesses the yard stick and whatever office it portrays? Now back to Tru Davies. Another character has come forward on the program, Jack Harper. We now know Jack plays antithesis to Tru. For those not up on "Tru Calling," Tru is asked by some of the bodies in morgue where she works for help. At that time resets 24 hours. Tru then has a day to set things straight. Jack tries to make the day unfold as it has initially. Here's the rub. If Tru is one of the aspects of fate which one is she? Clotho who spins the thread of one's life, Lachesis who measures it, or Atropos who cuts it? Clothos is portrayed as an old women who has experienced life, Lachesis is portrayed as middle aged woman worldly and wise, and Atropos as the maid inexperienced and naive. Is Tru Atropos? Tru is unmarried. She is trying to become a doctor hence her work at the morgue. All her life is before her. But Tru has found out that her mom had this gift before she died. That makes sense as Tru is not about cutting the thread but more about returning it to the tapestry of life. Is Tru Lachesis? I am pushing the idea that Tru has come into her own and "Tru Calling" is about her adjusting to her to her new office. Jack's character is more about cutting the thread of life. Are we seeing the fates argue? I previous felt that they worked in concert. Jack as a male Atropos is refreshing. Tru as an unmarried and presumably coming into her own, the beginning of her middle age, as Lachesis is refreshing. The fates arguing is refreshing although it reminds me of the witches in "Macbeth." But maybe something even more interesting is going on. What if Tru represents freewill and Jack represents fate? Not all bodies that ask Tru for help. Those that do reach beyond the grave to impose their will on Tru. Are we to infer that only some of us express our freewill? What does that imply about Xena and Gabrielle? Xena always seems to be bent on cutting short the threads of life and Gabrielle is always seems to be trying to return them to the tapestry of life. In Gabrielle and Xena's relationship who is more likely to express their freewill in a given situation? Think "A Day in the Life." Think Xena flipping coin to decide what to do next instead of waiting for Gabrielle to go through her evaluation process. Fate verses freewill. Is freewill a matter of choice and if you wait too long the choice is taken from you by fate? ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 01:31:03 +0300 From: Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: SIn Trade > Actually, Sophia, who's in Greece, says there are a lot of similarities. > > -- Ife OOOOHHHH That would be me. I'M HERE!! I think there are a lot of similarities and many differencies too. Yes Greece has many mountains, forests, sea etc. like NZ. But NZ is more exotic and Greece more mediterranean. They have different kinds of the same beauty. And to be honest I think ancient Greece would look like more with NZ than nowadays. Sophia ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 00:00:19 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: SIn Trade In a message dated 6/27/2004 4:10:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sgitzou@periaktoi.gr writes: > >Actually, Sophia, who's in Greece, says there are a lot of similarities. > > > >-- Ife > > OOOOHHHH That would be me. I'M HERE!!>> You live! Jeez, we have to send smoke signals to find you. > I think there are a lot of similarities and many differencies too. Yes > Greece has many mountains, forests, sea etc. like NZ. But NZ is more exotic > and Greece more mediterranean. They have different kinds of the same beauty. > And to be honest I think ancient Greece would look like more with NZ than > nowadays. > Do you mind sharing that info about the Centaurs? It's just the kind of story that would make cr even nuttier about trying to match fantasy and real-time geography. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2004 00:00:20 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Fate vs Freewill. In a message dated 6/27/2004 2:22:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Richan@aol.com writes: > What does that imply about Xena and Gabrielle? Xena always seems to be bent > > on > cutting short the threads of life and Gabrielle is always seems to be trying > > to return > them to the tapestry of life. In Gabrielle and Xena's relationship who is > more likely to > express their freewill in a given situation? Think "A Day in the Life." > Think > Xena flipping coin > to decide what to do next instead of waiting for Gabrielle to go through her > > evaluation > process. Fate verses freewill. Is freewill a matter of choice and if you > wait > too long > the choice is taken from you by fate? > Hey! It's summer! Haven't you noticed how lightweight our posts have gotten recently? Now here you come along with a real brain fryer. An excellent brain fryer, but a brain fryer nonetheless. Howsomever, it is precisely the kind on brain fryer I fall into. But in deference to my laziness at the moment, I will cross my fingers that someone else responds first. Maybe you? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #169 **************************************