From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #167 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, June 26 2004 Volume 04 : Number 167 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] DVD - bonus features review [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade 2 [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade 2 [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: SIn Trade [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Season 4 DVD question [Lilli Sprintz ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Yet another Xener mention [Lee Daley ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:40:30 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade In a message dated 6/24/2004 3:16:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > I think you'll be pleased when you watch it on DVD, it certainly seems to > have extra clarity compared with the taped ex-TV versions I have. This is > something I didn't really notice in the Season 3 DVD's, probably simply > because the mountain scenery and wide open spaces of Sin Trade make this > clarity more obvious than in an 'ordinary' ep. > > I would expect the same to apply in The Debt, too, but I didn't notice it so > > much there, possibly because the mountains in the background were less > distinctive, possibly because they're not on-screen for as much time as they > are in Sin Trade. > > Yes, that struck me too. Even the standard opening sequence looks brighter/clearer, as well as the eps I've viewed so far (disc 1). I've never noticed the difference between the commercial tapes and DVDs as much as I have with season 4. I'm extremely pleased, given how much I love season 4. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:40:32 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] DVD - bonus features review In a message dated 6/15/2004 8:15:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, xenatorres@hotmail.com writes: > BLOOPERS: ONE extended blooper (Lucy's rumbling stomach during "A Good > Day") > and oddly, an added blooper from "To Helicon and Back" where an amazon cuts > off a guy's leg, and when the director yells "Cut" she runs back, picks up > the leg and begins to beat him with it. Very funny, though you'd think we'd > see that for season six. Again, less than on the Creation fan club video and > > HORRIBLE quality! What the hell!? Grainy, horrible sound. WHY? > Yes, so far the bloopers are my main disappointment. As with the other DVD sets, they're mostly ones I have on the Creation fan club tapes, but worse quality. BTW, did it look to you like that guy really did have a partially amputated leg? Also, it's clear, as Sharon said, that Lucy had a bad cold. She's particularly nasal on the Sin Trade commentaries. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:40:29 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade 2 In a message dated 6/24/2004 5:48:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > This brings up an interesting anomaly, though - the prophecy was that Otere > > would inherit Xena's power. (And by this, in the context, I'd assume that > to mean her shamanistic powers). Yet, it was Yakut that Xena appointed as > shaman, not Otere. This seems odd. >> Apparently Xena took it to mean "power" as leader, not spiritually. At least, that's what she tells Otere at the end. And at the time Alti mentions this to young Xena, it was more in terms of Xena's power in general. I'm not sure Alti or Xena thought specifically in terms of the shamanistic powers. > Just before going into battle is a heck of a time for Xena to tell the > Amazons that she killed all their parents' leaders. I can understand > Xena's > discomfort when Otere proposes they all salute Xena. Still, that story is > not really calculated to inspire confidence and resolve in the troops. >> I think it was important to her that they know the truth about the person they were loyally risking their spirits with. Although there's little to indicate Alti would've managed to reveal the truth to the Amazons, there was that possibility, which might've weakened their confidence in the midst of battle. Xena also needed to "come clean" spiritually herself -- no baggage from the unconfessed sins -- before going up against Alti. > > Just compare the firm salute Xena gives the dead Amazons 'now' with the > perfunctory casual salute she gives Cyane in the flashback. (It 'whooshes' > > slightly, by the way :) >> Yes, Lucy made it look like the parody of a gang salute. Very in keeping with the juvenile delinquent way she played young Xena. > > Xena must have carefully prepared her trap, rigging all those spiky > death-traps in the trees. If she could do that without the Amazons > noticing, I think she must have already 'out-Amazoned the Amazons' even > before she started her little massacre. >> You know, I wondered as I watched that tonight if the Amazons had already rigged those and Xena had found out about them beforehand. > Xena says 'Gabrielle, you're the best thing in my life' and Gabrielle > replies > 'I love you, Xena' - I wonder if that was an intentional reference back to > the last time she said that, in Maternal Instincts, when it notably didn't > work? >> Ironically, I think it's Xena's main cue that "love" is the word they need to free the Amazons. She's been seeing Gabs all along, and Gabs essentially gives her the answer in the vision. > Of course, as Xena instantly realises (and my soggy brain was too dazed by > all these surprises to grasp until I worked it out afterwards), Alti has > just > shot herself in the foot because this means Gabrielle must still be alive. >> > Yes, I loved that moment! It hadn't occurred to me either, yet there our girl was in the midst of battle, still putting two and two together. > And then Xena rides off into the sunset with that 'western' music which > always gives me the chills just like Ife commented. Beautiful stuff from > LoDuca. >> Absolutely. Even when I'm just listening to the CD, that music gives me goose bumps. For me, that will always be the "first" series ender. It's the "purest" of Xena's acts of atonement to me, in that she "cleans up" something she's done in a way she can be proud of, no regrets. She asks for and receives forgiveness (and a chance to cleans herself) from Otere, recognizes for the first time her own "light," intentionally serves as a mentor in how to live (not just kill or die), acts out of and bequeaths the power of love, and triumphs on the spiritual plane (as she later does in AFIN). After Sin Trade, all the other heaven/hell, redemption in Higuchi, etc. stuff was icing on the cake. The Xena who rides off into the sunset at the end irepresents the fulfillment of the Xena I saw in Sins of the Past. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 18:55:54 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 04:59, Xena Torres wrote: > >D'you mean he got the Emmy for the two eps, or just for FA? > > He just got an emmy for FA. OK. I never noticed the score in FA, whereas I (obviously!) did in Sin Trade. Maybe it just wasn't his 'turn' that year - like the way the Lord of the Rings trilogy had to wait for the third episode for their batch of Oscars. > >Agreed. (This is in contrast to Callisto, who got better as she went > > on). > > Even angel Cal? Though I liked the developement, you can tell Hudson had > WAAAAAAAAAY more fun as the bad Callisto. ;) No, NOT including Angel Callisto (who wasn't really Callisto at all, but an android :) REAL Callisto, up to and including the Callisto in Ides. > >Maybe the role didn't suit her. Besides, Lily was a weak character IIRC, > >whereas Yakut was a fairly strong one. > > True, true. BUT, no, I'm sorry, THAT voice. What the HELL was THAT!? In Cleo 2525 you mean? Can't remember it. > >Did you notice the old post-and-wire fence in the background? > > Hee, hee. Yep. Saw that during the first airing and LMAO. > > >No, not true. Not entirely true anyway ;) > > Just yanking your chain cr. ;) I was just afraid it might inadvertently upset some Gabfans. I only ever do that on purpose cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 19:19:29 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Sin Trade 2 On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 16:40, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/24/2004 5:48:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > This brings up an interesting anomaly, though - the prophecy was that > > Otere > > > > would inherit Xena's power. (And by this, in the context, I'd assume > > that to mean her shamanistic powers). Yet, it was Yakut that Xena > > appointed as shaman, not Otere. This seems odd. >> > > Apparently Xena took it to mean "power" as leader, not spiritually. At > least, that's what she tells Otere at the end. And at the time Alti > mentions this to young Xena, it was more in terms of Xena's power in > general. I'm not sure Alti or Xena thought specifically in terms of the > shamanistic powers. Hmm, actually Alti said "She will take your power away from you one day". I agree, 'power' suggests political (for want of a better word) power. 'Powers' would suggest spiritual/shamanistic power. Though, 'take your power away' is really not quite accurate, since that didn't really happen. 'Inherit your power' would have been more applicable. Otere said 'She didn't kill me because she knew what Alti predicted must happen. I am destined to take her power.' which is sort of half-way - not quite as complete as 'take her power _away_'. OTOH, Yakut said "This must be what the prophecy was. She's lost all her powers. Maybe they've passed over to you. Do you feel any different?" To me, 'powers' definitely suggests spiritual powers rather than political power. Umm, 'powers' is a personal attribute, like 'abilities', whereas 'power' is an external attribute like 'status'. I'm obviously reading too much into this :) > > Just before going into battle is a heck of a time for Xena to tell the > > Amazons that she killed all their parents' leaders. I can understand > > Xena's > > discomfort when Otere proposes they all salute Xena. Still, that story > > is not really calculated to inspire confidence and resolve in the troops. > > >> > > I think it was important to her that they know the truth about the person > they were loyally risking their spirits with. Although there's little to > indicate Alti would've managed to reveal the truth to the Amazons, there > was that possibility, which might've weakened their confidence in the midst > of battle. Xena also needed to "come clean" spiritually herself -- no > baggage from the unconfessed sins -- before going up against Alti. I certainly agree that Xena neded to 'come clean', for herself. I really don't know whether, fromthe point of view of the Amazons, it was helpful. Well, if it wasn't for the possibility that Alti might tell them, I'd say it was very definitely _un_helpful. (snip) > > Xena must have carefully prepared her trap, rigging all those spiky > > death-traps in the trees. If she could do that without the Amazons > > noticing, I think she must have already 'out-Amazoned the Amazons' even > > before she started her little massacre. >> > > You know, I wondered as I watched that tonight if the Amazons had already > rigged those and Xena had found out about them beforehand. Yes, that's a definite possibility - if so, though, Xena was still 'out-Amazoning the Amazons' since in that case she sussed out all their traps and used them against the Amazons. > > Xena says 'Gabrielle, you're the best thing in my life' and Gabrielle > > replies > > 'I love you, Xena' - I wonder if that was an intentional reference back > > to the last time she said that, in Maternal Instincts, when it notably > > didn't work? >> > > Ironically, I think it's Xena's main cue that "love" is the word they need > to free the Amazons. She's been seeing Gabs all along, and Gabs > essentially gives her the answer in the vision. Errm, yes. You're probably right about that, I have to admit. ;) (snip) > > And then Xena rides off into the sunset with that 'western' music which > > always gives me the chills just like Ife commented. Beautiful stuff > > from LoDuca. >> > > Absolutely. Even when I'm just listening to the CD, that music gives me > goose bumps. For me, that will always be the "first" series ender. It's > the "purest" of Xena's acts of atonement to me, in that she "cleans up" > something she's done in a way she can be proud of, no regrets. She asks > for and receives forgiveness (and a chance to cleans herself) from Otere, > recognizes for the first time her own "light," intentionally serves as a > mentor in how to live (not just kill or die), acts out of and bequeaths the > power of love, and triumphs on the spiritual plane (as she later does in > AFIN). After Sin Trade, all the other heaven/hell, redemption in Higuchi, > etc. stuff was icing on the cake. The Xena who rides off into the sunset > at the end irepresents the fulfillment of the Xena I saw in Sins of the > Past. > > -- Ife Nice idea! It'd work for me (though possibly not for Gabfans / subtexters). Only snag I can see is the Vision... that'd be a big loose end. But I do agree, there's a nice air of completeness about the end of the ep. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 19:44:29 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: SIn Trade On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 15:32, Cheryl Ande wrote: > cr wrote: > > everyone knows that Lucy was going through a tough time mentally, but it > makes for a magnificent look of desperation. ...> > > It is ironic that the rain which made everyone so miserable really makes > this episode stand out. It sets the mood so perfectly that you can't > believe it wasn't scripted Yes. The script probably didn't explicitly call for rain, but all credit to TJ and the crew for realising that it fitted right in, and for going on working in such conditions. (Of course, they probably had a deadline pushing them as well, but still, they got results). > "Look what we got". I usually hate teens in movies, they're so > juvenile, but these were young adults - still with a bit of youthful > enthusiasm, which made them very engaging. Top marks to the writers and > actors.> > > I loved these Amazons. They acted like what I believe Amazons should be > like - self-reliant, brave, and just a bit hard headed. These young women > were tough and yet they did have that youthful high spirits. They are certainly my favourite Amazons. (snip) > black to grey to light fawn depending on the angle of the sun and the cloud > cover) add to or detract from scenes like these? > > > Oh I think it definitely adds to these scenes. I think the NZ landscape > gave Xena and Herc a very different look. I think it help emphasis the > mythic dimension of both series. Now I have never been to Greece but I'm > pretty sure it doesn't look like NZ so the fact that ancient Greece now > looks very different from the real place sort emphasis that we are in an > alternative universe. Actually, so far as I can tell from websites, parts of Greece look similar to parts of NZ. Not southern Greece or the islands, which has a 'Mediterranean' type climate I think, fairly arid. But the north, including Thrace, is mountainous and green, gets plenty of rain, and snow in winter... visually, there is plenty of NZ that looks like that. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 04:01:17 -0500 From: Lilli Sprintz Subject: [chakram-refugees] Season 4 DVD question Hi all! i have this question for those of you watching the DVD's, because i've wondered this, and don't have the set. is there any explanation about how the crucifixtion scene was filmed in relation to all the other episodes for that season? the answer seems obvious as i ask the question, in that the scene must have been shot previous to the other episodes, and all the other episodes planned and written out after that, but is that explained? Lilli ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:18:22 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 4 DVD question On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 21:01, Lilli Sprintz wrote: > Hi all! > > i have this question for those of you watching the DVD's, because i've > wondered this, and don't have the set. > > is there any explanation about how the crucifixtion scene was filmed in > relation to all the other episodes for that season? the answer seems > obvious as i ask the question, in that the scene must have been shot > previous to the other episodes, and all the other episodes planned and > written out after that, but is that explained? > > Lilli I was just watching the season 'Interviews' on the last DVD. Summarising what Rob and Eric Gruendemann and Liz Friedman said, Rob and RJ had decided some time in Season 3 that S4 was going to end with the events of Ides. They'd also decided to put a 'flash-forward' to that in Sin Trade (which everyone told them was crazy), and also that, some time during S4, Gabs was going to get a haircut. So then, presumably, they filmed the 'vision' long before any of the rest of Ides was even fully scripted, then they just had to make sure that Ides fitted in with what they'd committed themselves to. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 19:10:57 -0400 From: Lee Daley Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Yet another Xener mention At 12:03 AM 6/24/2004 -0800, KTL wrote: > They're >based in New York. I wonder if they carry their whips on the subway? And >if so, does anybody notice? As long as it's not a box cutter and they aren't sitting on a milk crate (thank you for preserving my quality of life Nanny Bloomberg), nobody would notice. :) LeeD. Warrior Jester ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2004 23:39:15 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Season 4 DVD I was watching Law & Order SUV tonight on USA when there was a commercial break. I wasn't paying to much attention and then I saw this dark haired warrior on horseback and I thought that looks a lot like Xena. Much to my surprise it was. For one brief moment I thought Xena movie but no it was an ad for the season 4 DVD. I never saw an ad for the DVDs on TV before and I pleased to see it. Now I'm wondering whether the fact NBC bought Universal and now owns USA too if it would be more interested in a Xena movie or miniseries (still rooting for that instead of a movie) than Universal. Xena certainly was discussed a lot on the BRAVO documentary TV Revolution which is also owned by NBC. Maybe there are Xena fans at NBC. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #167 **************************************