From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #157 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, June 15 2004 Volume 04 : Number 157 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Season 4 DVD [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Season 4 DVD [IfeRae@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 19:22:01 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Season 4 DVD On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 10:56, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/13/2004 12:44:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > It seems > > > > >she may have used her hard exterior to cover any vulnerability, as well > > > as a need for real love. I also agree that Anokin, Caesar and Akemi > > > "got to" her, and that her reaction to their "betrayals" was way out of > > > proportion. Yes, she knew she knew she'd allowed them in, which is why > > > her ego was injured. But I think she was angry at both herself and > > > them for that happening -- not that she accepted responsibility for it. > > > > Hey, hang on. You cannot compare Caesar, Anokin and Akemi. There is > > just not the slightest resemblance between them. > > > > Caesar quite deliberately and with considerable effort, hunted Xena down > > and > > > > tried to murder her. He didn't need to, it was just ego and > > vindictiveness. He was just a ruthless, ambitious, megalomaniac > > warmonger and tyrant. I don't think _any_ possible reaction by Xena, no > > matter how extreme and violent, would have been 'out of proportion'. > > I simply meant "got to" in the sense that, for whatever reason, Xena > allowed herself to care what they thought/did in a very personal sense, > provoking big emotional responses from her that indicated to me she had > invested a lot of herself (e.g., her hopes, needs) in those people. Her > physical reactions aside, her emotional response was "extreme" to me > precisely because young Xena seemed to put little stock in sentiments like > loyalty or love. Yet she suddenly finds herself expecting loyalty from a > powerful stranger and trying to honor two "friends" she barely knew -- all > three of whom betray her in some way. > > Maybe her response was "proportionate" in terms of her own expectations, > but not in terms of the individuals' motives, promises or ability to > deliver. Well, there I still disagree. In fact, very roughly, one could say Xena's response _was_ proportionate to the individuals' motives and ability to deliver. Anokin - her 'betrayal' just amounted to rejecting Xena (for unknown reasons) in the Land of the Dead. And Xena's response was also unknown, but didn't appear to be of major significance. Akemi - well, she and Xena were using each other, but neither intended a major betrayal, like selling each other out to the enemy. When she died, Xena's response was to give her a decent burial, as requested. Xena was attacked by a mob and set a couple of them on fire, which (IMO) they were asking for. Anything beyond that was pure accident. I saw nothing 'out of proportion' there. Caesar - deliberately misled her, betrayed her, and mounted a campaign to hunt her down and kill her. I'd say Xena's response was very much in proportion. But then, you see, I'm biassed, I loathe and detest Caesar. > And lashing out at the whole world -- intentionally or > inadvertently hurting others who had little direct responsibility for > betraying her? Sorry, but that's not justifiable to me regardless of what > was going on in her head. > > -- Ife 'Justifiable'? What's that got to do with it? The Xenaverse was full of people doing unjustifiable things to each other. Xena's only justification was that she did it with style. ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 19:28:13 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Season 4 DVD In a message dated 6/14/2004 3:06:38 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > Ife said. > >And lashing out at the whole world -- intentionally or > >inadvertently hurting others who had little direct responsibility for > >betraying her? Sorry, but that's not justifiable to me regardless of what > >was going on in her head. > > > >-- Ife > > 'Justifiable'? What's that got to do with it? The Xenaverse was full of > people doing unjustifiable things to each other. Xena's only justification > > was that she did it with style. ;) > Forget "justifiable." Substitute "disproportionate." I understand you still think Xena's rampage against others was "proportionate" because Caesar was a terrible person and did terrible things to Xena. Too bad she she didn't direct her efforts toward the person responsible -- Caesar -- as I believe Reformed Xena would have. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #157 **************************************