From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #156 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, June 14 2004 Volume 04 : Number 156 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Season 4 DVD [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Season 4 DVD [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Season 4 DVD [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] S4 DVDs for $56 and Best Buy Bonus [cjlnh@webtv.ne] Re: [chakram-refugees] S4 DVDs for $56 and Best Buy Bonus [Cousin Liz Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Season 4 DVD On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:10, Cheryl Ande wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "cr" > > > I follow your reasoning. However, it implies a certain degree of > > self-deception on the part of Xena - "I feel bad about it, but it's her > > fault". I don't think Xena would take solace or refuge in blaming > > someone else for her feelings. I don't think her ego would allow it. > > It would > > mean admitting to herself that Akemi 'got' to her, and also admitting to > > herself that she needed an excuse, someone else to blame, for what > > happened. > > I don't think Xena would permit herself that. "We make our own fate" - > > can't recall if Herc or Xena said that, but I'm sure it applies to Xena. > > > > cr > > Oh I think the Xena that we know wouldn't allow herself to be so > self-deluded. But I'm not sure about young Xena. I think in many ways she > was very deluded. She thought money and power would bring her happiness and > she rejected everyone who tried to help her become a better person. I > think she was just the kind of a person who would be furious that some one > got to her . Afterall she admits that Anakin did get to her why else be so > furious when she is rejected by her. The young Xena was a profoundly > flawed if not disturbed person. Let's face it here is a person who killed > an unknown soldier simply so she go visiting a dead friend with Alti. This > is not the act of a competely sane person. I don't know about that. Many people have done far worse, and they didn't have 'insanity' as an excuse. The Romans used to kill people for entertainment. > I think it is an error to try > to ascribe the philosophy or attitudes of the mature Xena to the young > Xena. Mature Xena understands life so much better than her younger self > and has conquered much of the bitterness that caused so much havoc in her > past. > > CherylA Well, I'll continue to disagree with your original idea. I can see no indication, anywhere in any ep, that Xena ever harboured negative thoughts towards Akemi. At least, not after Akemi's death, anyway. She got annoyed with Akemi a couple of times while Akemi was still alive (for far, far lesser offences than Gabby used to get away with, I might add.... ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 19:43:13 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Season 4 DVD On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 14:57, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/9/2004 6:10:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > > candex@verizon.net writes: > > From: "cr" > > > > >I follow your reasoning. However, it implies a certain degree of > > >self-deception on the part of Xena - "I feel bad about it, but it's her > > >fault". I don't think Xena would take solace or refuge in blaming > > > someone else for her feelings. I don't think her ego would allow it. > > > It > > > > would > > > > >mean admitting to herself that Akemi 'got' to her, and also admitting to > > >herself that she needed an excuse, someone else to blame, for what > > > > happened. > > > > >I don't think Xena would permit herself that. "We make our own fate" - > > >can't recall if Herc or Xena said that, but I'm sure it applies to Xena. > > > > > >cr > > > > Oh I think the Xena that we know wouldn't allow herself to be so > > self-deluded. But I'm not sure about young Xena. I think in many ways > > she was very deluded. She thought money and power would bring her > > happiness and she rejected everyone who tried to help her become a better > > person. I think she was just the kind of a person who would be furious > > that some one got to her . Afterall she admits that Anakin did get to > > her why else be so furious when she is rejected by her. The young Xena > > was a profoundly flawed if not disturbed person. Let's face it here is a > > person who killed an unknown soldier simply so she go visiting a dead > > friend with Alti. This is not the act of a competely sane person. I > > think it is an error to try to ascribe the philosophy or attitudes of the > > mature Xena to the young Xena. Mature Xena understands life so much > > better than her younger self and has conquered much of the bitterness > > that caused so much havoc in her past. > > > > CherylA > > I have to agree with you. I think much of the reason we got to see Evil > Xena was not just to show how much blood she'd spilled, but the kind of > immature person she was in terms of her emotions, her ability to handle > them and obsession with channeling them for self-aggrandizement. It seems > she may have used her hard exterior to cover any vulnerability, as well as > a need for real love. I also agree that Anokin, Caesar and Akemi "got to" > her, and that her reaction to their "betrayals" was way out of proportion. > Yes, she knew she knew she'd allowed them in, which is why her ego was > injured. But I think she was angry at both herself and them for that > happening -- not that she accepted responsibility for it. Hey, hang on. You cannot compare Caesar, Anokin and Akemi. There is just not the slightest resemblance between them. Caesar quite deliberately and with considerable effort, hunted Xena down and tried to murder her. He didn't need to, it was just ego and vindictiveness. He was just a ruthless, ambitious, megalomaniac warmonger and tyrant. I don't think _any_ possible reaction by Xena, no matter how extreme and violent, would have been 'out of proportion'. Anokin (presumably) seduced/was seduced by Xena, and then later rejected her. She didn't cause Xena any physical injury, so far as I can see, nothing other than hurt feelings. I'm not quite sure what Xena's reaction (other than being highly offended) was. Akemi - well, she just used Xena to help her do what she felt she had to. No malice intended. Xena was just 'there', and Xena was certainly capable of looking after herself. Okay, so Xena was motivated by the thought of profit, which Akemi knew she wasn't going to get. But then, Xena was at least as responsible as Akemi in setting up the whole deal. And Xena's reaction was to grieve for her, not anger. I see the closest parallel with M'Lila - someone else who Xena got very close to, and whose death Xena reacted very badly to, with disastrous long-term consequences for her career. Neither M'Lila nor Akemi intended their deaths to cause major bad things to happen to Xena... But then if we're talking betrayal, why leave Lao Ma and Gabrielle out of it? Between them, they were directly responsible for Xena ending up on Ming's execution block.... But I guess the thing is, none of them compares with Caesar. He was the only one who deliberately, gratuitously and maliciously sought Xena's death. Not once but several times. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 18:56:06 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Season 4 DVD In a message dated 6/13/2004 12:44:03 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > It seems > >she may have used her hard exterior to cover any vulnerability, as well as > >a need for real love. I also agree that Anokin, Caesar and Akemi "got to" > >her, and that her reaction to their "betrayals" was way out of proportion. > >Yes, she knew she knew she'd allowed them in, which is why her ego was > >injured. But I think she was angry at both herself and them for that > >happening -- not that she accepted responsibility for it. > > Hey, hang on. You cannot compare Caesar, Anokin and Akemi. There is > just not the slightest resemblance between them. > > Caesar quite deliberately and with considerable effort, hunted Xena down and > > tried to murder her. He didn't need to, it was just ego and > vindictiveness. He was just a ruthless, ambitious, megalomaniac warmonger > and tyrant. I don't think _any_ possible reaction by Xena, no matter how > extreme and violent, would have been 'out of proportion'. > I simply meant "got to" in the sense that, for whatever reason, Xena allowed herself to care what they thought/did in a very personal sense, provoking big emotional responses from her that indicated to me she had invested a lot of herself (e.g., her hopes, needs) in those people. Her physical reactions aside, her emotional response was "extreme" to me precisely because young Xena seemed to put little stock in sentiments like loyalty or love. Yet she suddenly finds herself expecting loyalty from a powerful stranger and trying to honor two "friends" she barely knew -- all three of whom betray her in some way. Maybe her response was "proportionate" in terms of her own expectations, but not in terms of the individuals' motives, promises or ability to deliver. And lashing out at the whole world -- intentionally or inadvertently hurting others who had little direct responsibility for betraying her? Sorry, but that's not justifiable to me regardless of what was going on in her head. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 22:29:28 -0400 From: cjlnh@webtv.net (Cheryl LaScola) Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] S4 DVDs for $56 and Best Buy Bonus Just an FYI>>> BEST BUY's price is $51.98 or $54.98 ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 23:49:51 -0400 From: Cousin Liz Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] S4 DVDs for $56 and Best Buy Bonus Cheryl LaScola wrote: > Just an FYI>>> > BEST BUY's price is $51.98 or $54.98 I don't know where your prices are from, and maybe prices are different in different regions, but by me the Sunday Best Buy flyer has Season 4 listed for $49.99. Though with tax it will be a little bit higher. - -- Cousin Liz eas01@fast.net Soulmates Xena Dinosaur Bards http://cousinliz.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #156 **************************************