From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #154 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, June 10 2004 Volume 04 : Number 154 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Season 4 DVD [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Season 4 DVD ["Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Season 4 DVD On Wed, 09 Jun 2004 12:52, Cheryl Ande wrote: > cr wrote: > > I don't agree with you about Akemi's death. Xena was all cut up about > > Akemi's death. She was mourning the kid. Why would she want revenge? > > (Of course, at that time she didn't know about the 40,000 barbecued > > Higuchians, but even if she had, why would she want revenge?) She > > didn't > > at > > > the time it happened, she didn't 35 years later in the 'now' of Friend in > > Need. > > Because she was all cut up about it. Now I'm thinking she has time to > brood about Akemi's death. Akemi made her feel things she probably hasn't > felt for a long time - if not love at least a very deep affection for some > one. Akemi then goes and dies on her. Not only dies but makes Xena play a > big role in her death. Xena perhaps by the time Sin Trade happens has > thought about this and begins perhaps to even hate Akemi for using her and > then abandoning her. When Anakin comes along Xena may try to recreat the > same relationship she had with Akemi but Anakin rejects her thus destroying > another part of Xena's humanity. Alti of course knows all about Akemi and > used Anakin to deepen the wounds Akemi caused and turn Xena even more to > the dark. Of course once Xena has more or less reformed she realizes that > Akemi had to what she did to avenge her family. Xena no longer is burden > by unreasonable hate and self-pity so 35 years later she is more than > willing to help Akemi. > > CherylA I follow your reasoning. However, it implies a certain degree of self-deception on the part of Xena - "I feel bad about it, but it's her fault". I don't think Xena would take solace or refuge in blaming someone else for her feelings. I don't think her ego would allow it. It would mean admitting to herself that Akemi 'got' to her, and also admitting to herself that she needed an excuse, someone else to blame, for what happened. I don't think Xena would permit herself that. "We make our own fate" - can't recall if Herc or Xena said that, but I'm sure it applies to Xena. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 21:10:20 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Season 4 DVD - ----- Original Message ----- From: "cr" > > I follow your reasoning. However, it implies a certain degree of > self-deception on the part of Xena - "I feel bad about it, but it's her > fault". I don't think Xena would take solace or refuge in blaming someone > else for her feelings. I don't think her ego would allow it. It would > mean admitting to herself that Akemi 'got' to her, and also admitting to > herself that she needed an excuse, someone else to blame, for what happened. > I don't think Xena would permit herself that. "We make our own fate" - > can't recall if Herc or Xena said that, but I'm sure it applies to Xena. > > cr > Oh I think the Xena that we know wouldn't allow herself to be so self-deluded. But I'm not sure about young Xena. I think in many ways she was very deluded. She thought money and power would bring her happiness and she rejected everyone who tried to help her become a better person. I think she was just the kind of a person who would be furious that some one got to her . Afterall she admits that Anakin did get to her why else be so furious when she is rejected by her. The young Xena was a profoundly flawed if not disturbed person. Let's face it here is a person who killed an unknown soldier simply so she go visiting a dead friend with Alti. This is not the act of a competely sane person. I think it is an error to try to ascribe the philosophy or attitudes of the mature Xena to the young Xena. Mature Xena understands life so much better than her younger self and has conquered much of the bitterness that caused so much havoc in her past. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2004 22:57:04 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Season 4 DVD In a message dated 6/9/2004 6:10:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, candex@verizon.net writes: > From: "cr" > > > > >I follow your reasoning. However, it implies a certain degree of > >self-deception on the part of Xena - "I feel bad about it, but it's her > >fault". I don't think Xena would take solace or refuge in blaming someone > >else for her feelings. I don't think her ego would allow it. It > would > >mean admitting to herself that Akemi 'got' to her, and also admitting to > >herself that she needed an excuse, someone else to blame, for what > happened. > >I don't think Xena would permit herself that. "We make our own fate" - > >can't recall if Herc or Xena said that, but I'm sure it applies to Xena. > > > >cr > > > Oh I think the Xena that we know wouldn't allow herself to be so > self-deluded. But I'm not sure about young Xena. I think in many ways she > was very deluded. She thought money and power would bring her happiness and > she rejected everyone who tried to help her become a better person. I think > she was just the kind of a person who would be furious that some one got to > her . Afterall she admits that Anakin did get to her why else be so furious > when she is rejected by her. The young Xena was a profoundly flawed if not > disturbed person. Let's face it here is a person who killed an unknown > soldier simply so she go visiting a dead friend with Alti. This is not the > act of a competely sane person. I think it is an error to try to ascribe > the philosophy or attitudes of the mature Xena to the young Xena. Mature > Xena understands life so much better than her younger self and has conquered > much of the bitterness that caused so much havoc in her past. > > CherylA I have to agree with you. I think much of the reason we got to see Evil Xena was not just to show how much blood she'd spilled, but the kind of immature person she was in terms of her emotions, her ability to handle them and obsession with channeling them for self-aggrandizement. It seems she may have used her hard exterior to cover any vulnerability, as well as a need for real love. I also agree that Anokin, Caesar and Akemi "got to" her, and that her reaction to their "betrayals" was way out of proportion. Yes, she knew she knew she'd allowed them in, which is why her ego was injured. But I think she was angry at both herself and them for that happening -- not that she accepted responsibility for it. The fact that young Xena seems so "out of character" when compared to Reformed Xena is a testament to the tremendous discipline and motivation it took for her to gain more control over the passion, determination, intellect, and physical skills that made her so formidable throughout her warrior years. The irony is that Caesar and M'ing Tsu were were right in seeing young Xena as no more than a thug or "anybody" with an army. She has the potential, as many saw, to be so much more than that, but she exhibits little of the characteristics we may now think of as "fundamental" Xena -- self-responsibility, honor, compassion, altruism, unconditional love. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #154 **************************************