From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #143 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, May 29 2004 Volume 04 : Number 143 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever [Lilli Sprintz ] RE: [chakram-refugees] What's on the Cover? (was TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever) ["bookdaft" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] (Semi OT): RIP - Hercules dies [cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever Also, ...some people may squinch at this one...stargate SG-1. definitely started as a cult show. in particular with the original stargate movie. has cons. is a bit on the "far fetched" side which also made it a cult, because it deals with "space alien" issues, and the theory that the pyramids were created as alien landing pads. it's become more famous the last few years and is now one of the top rated sci-fi programs on tv. but it's still definitely cultish. still one of those programs where lots of people i mention it to have heard about it, but like xena, many people won't go near it. it's a great program. sort of a cross between science fiction and mythology, two of my favorite topics. Lilli ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 20:19:50 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever On Wed, 26 May 2004 03:15, Xena Torres wrote: > >10. Pee-Wee's Playhouse > >9. Xena > >8. The Twilight Zone > >7. The Prisoner > >6. The Simpsons > >5. Monty Python's Flying Circus > >4. Farscape > >3. Buffy, The Vampire Slayer > >2. X-Files > >1. Star Trek (Classic or Original Series) > > The Simpsons is hardly a cult show. Jeesh. And neither is Buffy really. It > has cult elements, but didn't have as much of a struggle, because Xena did > all open struggle for both shows. Xena had already paved the way when Buffy > came out, so it fails to fall under the 'cult show' title. A cult show is a > show that only made it through it's opening seasons because of a hard core > small group of fans, who slowly but surely brought in other viewers. Xena, > Farscape, X-Files and Star Trek for SURE belong on this list. I never > watched the others (that I haven't mentioned), so I can't speak for them. > Cult shows also tend to have cons, which many of these don't (though it's > not a requirement or anything). > BATTLE ON XENA! > Hmm, Monty Python was only ever 'cult' in the US, it was mainstream in the UK! Pleased to see Farscape and The Prisoner got rated, they certainly deserve their placings! (IMO of course.....) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 20:29:15 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever On Wed, 26 May 2004 15:02, Xena Torres wrote: > >The list is confusing popularity of cultural references with cultness. > >Simpson's are watched by too many people to be considered a cult classic. > > Agreed. But I think the truest of the cult shows on the list is "Farscape" > as it is SO cult that it NEVER hit main stream, and pretty much, if you > don't watch it, you've never heard of it. ;) > BATTLE ON XENA! Hmmm, it also demanded more than a five-minute attention span from the audience. But I reckon The Prisoner beats it for 'cultness'. In its day it was truly way-out stuff.... secret agent movies have been following in its footsteps ever since. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 20:36:46 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever On Wed, 26 May 2004 13:00, NZJester wrote: > At 08:15 am 25/05/2004 -0700, Xena Torres wrote: > >The Simpsons is hardly a cult show. Jeesh. And neither is Buffy really. It > >has cult elements, but didn't have as much of a struggle, because Xena did > >all open struggle for both shows. Xena had already paved the way when > >Buffy came out, so it fails to fall under the 'cult show' title. A cult > >show is a show that only made it through it's opening seasons because of a > >hard core small group of fans, who slowly but surely brought in other > >viewers. Xena, Farscape, X-Files and Star Trek for SURE belong on this > >list. I never watched the others (that I haven't mentioned), so I can't > >speak for them. Cult shows also tend to have cons, which many of these > >don't (though it's not a requirement or anything). > >BATTLE ON XENA! > > Actually I think the Simpsons could be considered a cult show > it started off as a small badly drawn cartoon on the Tracy Ulman Show > It's cult status on that show got it turned into a full animation series > that has well outlasted the show it was originally a small part off > Oddly enough I found a complimentary reference to The Simpsons in a library book ("Bad Astronomy") that is otherwise generally scathing about the portrayal of science on TV. Apparently when Bart saw a meteor he did the right things to report it and when it landed he picked it up and put it in his pocket - which is possible because (contrary to popular belief) small meteors are not very hot. Now who woulda thought The Simpsons would get their science right? ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 00:53:44 +1200 From: NZJester Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever >10. Pee-Wee's Playhouse >9. Xena >8. The Twilight Zone >7. The Prisoner >6. The Simpsons >5. Monty Python's Flying Circus >4. Farscape >3. Buffy, The Vampire Slayer >2. X-Files >1. Star Trek (Classic or Original Series) I wonder what other shows might be on the top 10 of other countries? Before Xena my favorite TV show was Red Dwarf Lexx was a good show as well As a kid I loved UFO & Space 1999 I feel so sad they still don't have Eagle type ships They have the technology to build them & the moon base They just don't have the money to spare for them But at least they haven't had a nuclear accident on the moon that blew it out of orbit in 1999 like in the series ;-p - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Catch ya later NZJester - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 17:49:34 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] What's on the Cover? (was TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever) What's on the cover of the issue with XWP in it? The current TV Guide has Dr. Phil and weight loss on the cover. The darned thing is shrink-wrapped because of some giveaway inside, so I couldn't flip through it to see if it was the right one. Thanks! - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:24:46 -0400 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] What's on the Cover? (was TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever) Hi, >What's on the cover of the issue with XWP in it? The current TV Guide has >Dr. Phil and weight loss on the cover. That was last week's TV Guide (well, the one that arrived in mailboxes last week for this week :}). The XWP one has four different covers. (You can see them all right on the front page of tvguide.com.) Mine has a picture of Buffy on it. All have in big letters, "25 TOP CULT SHOWS EVER!". Impossible to miss. =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://muzak.smoe.org =============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 01:08:24 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] What's on the Cover? (was TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows... In a message dated 5/26/2004 4:39:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, meth@smoe.org writes: > The XWP one has four different covers. (You can see them all right on the > front page of tvguide.com.) Mine has a picture of Buffy on it. All have > in big letters, "25 TOP CULT SHOWS EVER!". Impossible to miss. > Thanks! - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 21:34:06 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] (Semi OT): RIP - Hercules dies Hercules has just died. Umm, I hasten to add, Hercules was a dog. The article linked below explains it. I don't know whether he ever appeared on Xena - he may have been one of the dogs chasing Xena through the forest in The Debt. The 'bugger' reference is to a Toyota ad. IIRC, Toyota had a humorous ad for their pickup truck ('ute' in American, maybe), set on a farm, in which someone used the great Kiwi adjective 'Bugger!'. And some viewer complained to the Broadcasting Standards Authority (IIRC), who ruled that it was a common word and there was nothing very wrong with it. And so for Toyota's next ad, the entire dialogue consisted of people saying 'Bugger!' to various mishaps, including Hercules when the ute takes off so smartly he misses the back of it and ends sprawling in the mud (see the pic in the link below). cr http://www.tvnz.co.nz/view/news_index_skin/news_index_group http://tvnz.co.nz/view/news_national_story_skin/427688%3fformat=html Star of controversial advert dies Herc the 'bugger' dog Related Video Star of "bugger" advert dies (01:51) May 27, 2004 The star of the now iconic bugger advertisement has died. Herc the Hunterway cross collapsed suddenly on Wednesday morning while shooting an educational video. The 12-year-old began his career on the TV series Hercules - hence the name - but he really took off after the bugger ad, which won 17 international awards. He also starred in the Fellowship of the Ring. Herc's owner Mark Vette says Herc was a dog of a lifetime. "You know you'll never have a dog like him again." Those who worked with Herc say he was the exception to the rule of never work with kids and animals. "He understood people, he understood what I was thinking - what I wanted - and it made it easy and that's why he was different," said Sonali Amarasingham of Screentime Communicado. Vette is hoping he will live on through his son Tyson. "He's got a lot of work to do to catch up with old Herc, but he'll get there," says Vette. In the meantime fans wanting to farewell Herc can do so at Vette's rescue zoo in Tuakau on Saturday. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 06:02:40 -0400 From: "bookdaft" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] What's on the Cover? (was TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever) There are four different covers: The Simpsons, Star Trek, Buffy and The X-Files. Collect them all! Dr. Phil is on this week's issue (May 23 -29). The cult show article is in next week's (May 30 - June 5). bd - -----Original Message----- From: owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org [mailto:owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org]On Behalf Of IfeRae@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 5:50 PM To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Subject: [chakram-refugees] What's on the Cover? (was TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever) What's on the cover of the issue with XWP in it? The current TV Guide has Dr. Phil and weight loss on the cover. The darned thing is shrink-wrapped because of some giveaway inside, so I couldn't flip through it to see if it was the right one. Thanks! - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= _____________________________________________________ This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 06:08:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Meredith Tarr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] (Semi OT): RIP - Hercules dies Hi, - --- cr wrote: > The 'bugger' reference is to a Toyota ad. IIRC, > Toyota had a humorous ad > for their pickup truck ('ute' in American, maybe), Actually, "pickup truck" *is* American. What's a "ute"? Meredith meth@smoe.org __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:45:04 -0400 From: "Ribaud, Lynn" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] (Semi OT): RIP - Hercules dies My two bits: Meredith asked: > Hi, > > --- cr wrote: > > The 'bugger' reference is to a Toyota ad. IIRC, > > Toyota had a humorous ad > > for their pickup truck ('ute' in American, maybe), > > Actually, "pickup truck" *is* American. What's a > "ute"? "Utility" -- SUV. So they're not quite the same thing, at least to Americans. Lynn Lynn Ribaud ribaud@bnl.gov ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:08:20 +0100 From: "Sojourner" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] (Semi OT): RIP - Hercules dies My two bits: Meredith asked: > Hi, > > --- cr wrote: > > The 'bugger' reference is to a Toyota ad. IIRC, > > Toyota had a humorous ad > > for their pickup truck ('ute' in American, maybe), > > Actually, "pickup truck" *is* American. What's a > "ute"? "Utility" -- SUV. So they're not quite the same thing, at least to Americans. Lynn In NZ a ute is not an SUV, definitely a pick-up truck. And small compared to your monsters. Ute is also an American Indian tribe too? Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 10:16:50 -0400 From: "Ribaud, Lynn" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] (Semi OT): RIP - Hercules dies And more... > My two bits: > > Meredith asked: > > > Hi, > > > > --- cr wrote: > > > The 'bugger' reference is to a Toyota ad. IIRC, > > > Toyota had a humorous ad > > > for their pickup truck ('ute' in American, maybe), > > > > Actually, "pickup truck" *is* American. What's a > > "ute"? > > "Utility" -- SUV. So they're not quite the same thing, > at least to > Americans. > > > In NZ a ute is not an SUV, definitely a pick-up truck. And > small compared to > your monsters. Ute is also an American Indian tribe too? > > Sojourner Yes to the last; my apologies for the first. We *do* have small -- of both varieties, mostly (but not all) imported. Lynn Lynn Ribaud ribaud@bnl.gov ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:44:41 -0700 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] (Semi OT): RIP - Hercules dies I have that commercial on tape that a friend in Australia sent me. SOOOOOOOOOOOO funny!!!!!! Poor Herc. The animals of Herc/Xena are just as important as the people. I was sorry to hear Monty died during Lucy's commentary for "The Debt." BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" >From: cr >To: "'Chakram-Refugees'" >Subject: [chakram-refugees] (Semi OT): RIP - Hercules dies >Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 21:34:06 +1200 > >Hercules has just died. Umm, I hasten to add, Hercules was a dog. >The article linked below explains it. > >I don't know whether he ever appeared on Xena - he may have been one of the >dogs chasing Xena through the forest in The Debt. > >The 'bugger' reference is to a Toyota ad. IIRC, Toyota had a humorous ad >for their pickup truck ('ute' in American, maybe), set on a farm, in which >someone used the great Kiwi adjective 'Bugger!'. And some viewer >complained to the Broadcasting Standards Authority (IIRC), who ruled that >it >was a common word and there was nothing very wrong with it. And so for >Toyota's next ad, the entire dialogue consisted of people saying 'Bugger!' >to >various mishaps, including Hercules when the ute takes off so smartly he >misses the back of it and ends sprawling in the mud (see the pic in the >link below). > >cr > > > >http://www.tvnz.co.nz/view/news_index_skin/news_index_group > >http://tvnz.co.nz/view/news_national_story_skin/427688%3fformat=html > > >Star of controversial advert dies >Herc the 'bugger' dog >Related Video >Star of "bugger" advert dies (01:51) >May 27, 2004 > >The star of the now iconic bugger advertisement has died. > >Herc the Hunterway cross collapsed suddenly on Wednesday morning while >shooting an educational video. > >The 12-year-old began his career on the TV series Hercules - hence the >name - but he really took off after the bugger ad, which won 17 >international awards. He also starred in the Fellowship of the Ring. > >Herc's owner Mark Vette says Herc was a dog of a lifetime. > >"You know you'll never have a dog like him again." > >Those who worked with Herc say he was the exception to the rule of never >work with kids and animals. > >"He understood people, he understood what I was thinking - what I wanted - >and it made it easy and that's why he was different," said Sonali >Amarasingham of Screentime Communicado. > >Vette is hoping he will live on through his son Tyson. > >"He's got a lot of work to do to catch up with old Herc, but he'll get >there," says Vette. > >In the meantime fans wanting to farewell Herc can do so at Vette's rescue >zoo in Tuakau on Saturday. >========================================================= >This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. >To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with >"unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. >Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. >========================================================= _________________________________________________________________ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:19:23 EDT From: Sekhmet209@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] (Semi OT): RIP - Hercules dies In a message dated 5/27/04 10:11:47 AM, sojourner@paradise.net.nz writes: >In NZ a ute is not an SUV, definitely a pick-up truck. And small compared >to your monsters. Ute is also an American Indian tribe too? Yep. They live in southwestern Colorado, northwestern New Mexico, and (naturally) southeastern Utah. - --Sekhmet ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 14:49:00 -0700 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Xena 2005 Art Montage Calendar survey Okay, I'm putting together the pics for the photo and art montage calendars and I'm making up themes for the art montage months. I was wondering what themes and/or episodes you'd like to see covered in the individual months. Let me know and I'll keep a tally. Sharon Official Xena Fan Club http://www.creationent.com/outback/fanclubs/index.html http://www.creationent.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 21:53:25 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] TV Revolution: Body Count The last episode of TV Revolution aired last night with the episode Body Count. This was the episode where Steven Sears along with Liz Friedman were interviewed. This episode as can be expected was about violence in TV. It was a pretty objective view of the subject. There was an overview of how violence has been portrayed on TV over the years. From the Westerns where violence was often seen as necessary and justified in order to maintain law and order to today's more conflicted view of violence and it's corrupting power. I thought the parts about Xena and Buffy were good but could have been better. The discussion did center on the high body count and the fact that women were the heroes here. The dark mood of Buffy was mentioned in passing. Most of the clips from Xena were of the first season which emphasized chop socky violence while the most violent scenes in the later seasons were ignored. I think this gave the false impression that the people who made Xena viewed violence lightly. What I always thought was most impressive about both Xena and Buffy was that both shows had a very ambivalent attitude about violence. In both universes violence was a vital necessity in order for the innocent to be protected. Both Buffy and Xena were ruthlessly efficient in there battles and took pleasure in the fight but they both knew it was taking a terrible toll on their souls. In addition to this in both shows a relative innocent is introduced in the mix, Gabrielle and Willow. It is through these characters the audience saw how violence changes the characters - Gabrielle losses much of her idealism and Willow is nearly destroyed by her own lust for vengeance. I wish the documentary had stressed a bit more how these two series portrayed violence as the potent force that both saves and destroys the one who uses it. I think it is this aspect of these shows which made them so popular to their avid fans. It wasn't just ass kicking women in leather or cute blonds that made vamps go puff which kept people watching - it was that these women were basically tragic figures who knew they were sacrificing a part of their humanity in their fight against evil. It was the inner struggle of the characters that made these shows classics. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 01:37:54 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] TV Revolution: Body Count In a message dated 5/27/2004 6:58:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, candex@verizon.net writes: > It wasn't just ass kicking women in leather or cute blonds that > made vamps go puff which kept people watching - it was that these women were > basically tragic figures who knew they were sacrificing a part of their > humanity in their fight against evil. It was the inner struggle of the > characters that made these shows classics. > Beautifully said. I haven't seen this segment of the Bravo series, but I suspect they weren't interested in the subtleties. I also suspect that there are many fans who saw the "inner struggle" as "nice" but superficial to the main attraction - the violence. The "sacrificing humanity" part is sort of given, a "that's life" negative that goes with the territory. Yes, many of us nutballs discussed it. However, I'm not sure XWP obviously pushed the envelope in that regard. Indeed, Xena in many ways conveys that good and evil, peace and violence, love and hate are different sides of the same coin. Without her "dark" side, there wouldn't have been the inner struggle -- nor the interest in her as a flawed, ever-struggling character. I think there was certainly more temptation to focus on what she fought against and gained in the process, than on what she tried to embrace and lost in the process. The former was easier to recognize, in that it very often involved concrete, visible violence. Many of her opponents would not get up again. The latter often involved restraint, ideals, internal effect that we had to surmise from subtle gestures or uncertain ends. The opponents might get up and do harm again. I'm speaking of Reformed Xena here, as Evil Xena saw herself gaining by embracing violence, with little recognition of the humanity she could lose. Reformed Xena put herself in the postion of jeopardizing her humanity precisely because she recognized she could lose it by using her weapons for good, rather than laying them down altogether. She was a physical warrior, perhaps above all other ways in which she was a warrior. It's very difficult to separate that from what made her who she was or from how she became a hero. Xena and violence go hand in hand. That's something I had a difficult time explaining to casual viewers who wondered why I saw much more to her than that. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 19:33:41 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] TV Revolution: Body Count On Fri, 28 May 2004 13:53, Cheryl Ande wrote: (snippage) > What I always thought was most impressive about both Xena and Buffy was > that both shows had a very ambivalent attitude about violence. In both > universes violence was a vital necessity in order for the innocent to be > protected. Both Buffy and Xena were ruthlessly efficient in there battles > and took pleasure in the fight but they both knew it was taking a terrible > toll on their souls. In addition to this in both shows a relative innocent > is introduced in the mix, Gabrielle and Willow. It is through these > characters the audience saw how violence changes the characters - Gabrielle > losses much of her idealism Perversely enough, I found that Gabrielle got much _less_ annoying (on average) as the seasons went on. Now, personally, I just don't believe there's any simple moral to be drawn from a series like Xena (except, maybe, 'shit happens'). But if there is one to be drawn about Gabrielle, I'm afraid it can only be that violence improves people. (Which I don't believe anyway) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 19:36:10 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] (Semi OT): RIP - Hercules dies On Fri, 28 May 2004 01:45, Ribaud, Lynn wrote: > My two bits: > > Meredith asked: > > Hi, > > > > --- cr wrote: > > > The 'bugger' reference is to a Toyota ad. IIRC, > > > Toyota had a humorous ad > > > for their pickup truck ('ute' in American, maybe), > > > > Actually, "pickup truck" *is* American. What's a > > "ute"? > > "Utility" -- SUV. So they're not quite the same thing, at least to > Americans. > > > Lynn > > Lynn Ribaud > ribaud@bnl.gov OK, I got that well confused. A 'ute' in NZ parlance certainly isn't a SUV, it's a pickup truck. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #143 **************************************