From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #142 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, May 26 2004 Volume 04 : Number 142 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever ["Xena Torres" <] Re: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever ["Kym Taborn" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever >10. Pee-Wee's Playhouse >9. Xena >8. The Twilight Zone >7. The Prisoner >6. The Simpsons >5. Monty Python's Flying Circus >4. Farscape >3. Buffy, The Vampire Slayer >2. X-Files >1. Star Trek (Classic or Original Series) The Simpsons is hardly a cult show. Jeesh. And neither is Buffy really. It has cult elements, but didn't have as much of a struggle, because Xena did all open struggle for both shows. Xena had already paved the way when Buffy came out, so it fails to fall under the 'cult show' title. A cult show is a show that only made it through it's opening seasons because of a hard core small group of fans, who slowly but surely brought in other viewers. Xena, Farscape, X-Files and Star Trek for SURE belong on this list. I never watched the others (that I haven't mentioned), so I can't speak for them. Cult shows also tend to have cons, which many of these don't (though it's not a requirement or anything). BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:29:27 -0700 From: "Kym Taborn" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever From: "Xena Torres" > A cult show is a > show that only made it through it's opening seasons because of a hard core > small group of fans, who slowly but surely brought in other viewers. I believe a more customary definition of a cult show is a show seen by few, but appreciated immensely by those in the know. Also, another red flag of a cult show is more people know of its "cultness" than have actually seen it to understand its "cultness". Kym ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:48:29 -0700 From: "Kym Taborn" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever > From: "Xena Torres" > > > A cult show is a > > show that only made it through it's opening seasons because of a hard core > > small group of fans, who slowly but surely brought in other viewers. > > I believe a more customary definition of a cult show is a show seen by few, > but appreciated immensely by those in the know. Also, another red flag of a > cult show is more people know of its "cultness" than have actually seen it > to understand its "cultness". The list is confusing popularity of cultural references with cultness. Simpson's are watched by too many people to be considered a cult classic. Just like Star Wars can't be considered a cult classic. The first incarnation of Star Trek definitely was a cult classic. The rest on the list are cult classics because they follow the definition above. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:12:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Meredith Tarr Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever Hi, > The Simpsons is hardly a cult show. Jeesh. I agree. _Futurama_ should have been on the list instead. *That* is a cult show. > And neither is Buffy really. As Kym pointed out, the actual definition of "cult" involves more people knowing about a show than have actually watched it. _Buffy_ more than qualifies. > A cult show is a > show that only made it through it's opening seasons > because of a hard core > small group of fans, who slowly but surely brought > in other viewers. This is true of _Buffy_ for sure. When the WB cancelled it, the main reason UPN picked it up was because they recognized the loyalty of its fan base. > Cult shows also tend to have cons, which many of > these don't (though it's not a requirement or > anything). There are currently more active cons for _Buffy_ than for X:WP. (Just ask abbagirl, who has been to several of them ... ;) I actually think TV Guide did a pretty good job with the list, aside from the Simpsons/Futurama gaffe. The only show they totally missed, IMO, was _Northern Exposure_. Meredith meth@smoe.org __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 14:35:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Sarah Anne Packard Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever > > Cult shows also tend to have cons, which many of > > these don't (though it's not a requirement or > > anything). > > There are currently more active cons for _Buffy_ than > for X:WP. (Just ask abbagirl, who has been to several > of them ... ;) Lol, thanks for the shoutout. ;) By the way, did X-Files ever have cons? I've been trying to remember...it seems like there have been some...Farscape, Xena, Buffy and Trek have all had cons...heck, even La Femme Nikita had cons! That was somewhat of a cult show, too. > > I actually think TV Guide did a pretty good job with > the list, aside from the Simpsons/Futurama gaffe. The > only show they totally missed, IMO, was _Northern > Exposure_. Ooh, good call...oh wait, I just thought of a big cult show that wasn't on the list! Twin Peaks!! :) I love Twin Peaks. Although one might argue, I suppose, that it also was too famous/mainstream to be cult? But it's debatable how many people who knew about the whole "who killed Laura Palmer?" thing actually watched the show... *shrug* -Sarah, aka the abbagirl- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 11:47:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Meredith Tarr Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever Hi, abbagirl responded: > Lol, thanks for the shoutout. ;) By the way, did > X-Files ever have cons? I think they had at least one, but I don't recall for sure. > Ooh, good call...oh wait, I just thought of a big > cult show that wasn't > on the list! Twin Peaks!! :) It is on the list ... I don't have the magazine with me, but I think it was #19 or so. Meredith meth@smoe.org __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 12:00:53 -0700 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever >Hi, > >abbagirl responded: > >> Lol, thanks for the shoutout. ;) By the way, did >> X-Files ever have cons? > >I think they had at least one, but I don't recall for >sure. > >Meredith We ran about 6 - 10 and then Fox ran a batch across the country. Sharon ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 15:09:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Sarah Anne Packard Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever > >> Lol, thanks for the shoutout. ;) By the way, did > >> X-Files ever have cons? > > > >I think they had at least one, but I don't recall for > >sure. > > > >Meredith > > > We ran about 6 - 10 and then Fox ran a batch across the country. > Sharon Wow, Creation had X-Files cons?? I never heard about that, musta been b4 I started going to cons I guess...did you guys ever get David or Gillian? :) -Sarah- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:00:04 +1200 From: NZJester Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever At 08:15 am 25/05/2004 -0700, Xena Torres wrote: >The Simpsons is hardly a cult show. Jeesh. And neither is Buffy really. It >has cult elements, but didn't have as much of a struggle, because Xena did >all open struggle for both shows. Xena had already paved the way when >Buffy came out, so it fails to fall under the 'cult show' title. A cult >show is a show that only made it through it's opening seasons because of a >hard core small group of fans, who slowly but surely brought in other >viewers. Xena, Farscape, X-Files and Star Trek for SURE belong on this >list. I never watched the others (that I haven't mentioned), so I can't >speak for them. Cult shows also tend to have cons, which many of these >don't (though it's not a requirement or anything). >BATTLE ON XENA! Actually I think the Simpsons could be considered a cult show it started off as a small badly drawn cartoon on the Tracy Ulman Show It's cult status on that show got it turned into a full animation series that has well outlasted the show it was originally a small part off - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Catch ya later NZJester - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 22:34:09 -0400 From: "bookdaft" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever I dunno. It might be. When TV Guide Online wanted me to answer questions about myself before allowing me to any further, I stopped looking at anything beyond the current day's pages. Now I really don't take the time to see what they have up. Most of the time it turns up in the print magazine. bd - -----Original Message----- From: owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org [mailto:owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Sarah Anne Packard Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 10:50 PM To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever > How devoted are the fans, lovingly nicknamed "nutballs" by Lawless? Heh, they forgot the "hardcore" part of hardcore nutballs... ;) > Next > year's annual convention is nearly sold out. > Actually, no - just the gold weekend seating is sold out. They just *started* to sell the preferred and gen admission! *shrug* Still, cool that TV Guide even knows about such things! > > There is also a cool drawing with Xena prominently in the middle. Is this article online too? -Sarah, aka the abbagirl- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= _____________________________________________________ This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:00:33 -0400 From: "bookdaft" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever Perhaps a redefinition of "cultness" is that it tends to fly under the radar. Having been part of several fandoms, there is the sense that no one really understands why you are so rabid or obsessed with what is just a television show. We often felt that we had something that only we understood and were accepted by its members and that no one in the rest of the world (the mundanes) could ever possibly understand us. It created a sense of belonging and for a lot of people, that is just what we were looking for. I would agree that the Simpsons don't really fit the definition, but the early Star Wars did, until it became a marketing machine. Better examples would include Farscape, The Prisoner, The Avengers, The Man From Uncle (I still have friends who write fan fiction for the show; and no they don't write slash, although some is out there), Beauty and the Beast and Dark Shadows. Some of the other show on the list, such as Twin Peaks, Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman and Dark Shadows, never really got themselves organized well enough to build on that cultability. This weekend I am attending a SF media-type of convention and I see there are tons of shows that do fit into my sense of "cultness" but rarely are heard of by the mainstream. Some of the shows are Rat Patrol, Stargate SG-1, The Sentinel, Kung Fu: The Legend Continues and The Equalizer, just to name a few. bd - -----Original Message----- From: owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org [mailto:owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Kym Taborn Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 11:48 AM To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever > From: "Xena Torres" > > > A cult show is a > > show that only made it through it's opening seasons because of a hard core > > small group of fans, who slowly but surely brought in other viewers. > > I believe a more customary definition of a cult show is a show seen by few, > but appreciated immensely by those in the know. Also, another red flag of a > cult show is more people know of its "cultness" than have actually seen it > to understand its "cultness". The list is confusing popularity of cultural references with cultness. Simpson's are watched by too many people to be considered a cult classic. Just like Star Wars can't be considered a cult classic. The first incarnation of Star Trek definitely was a cult classic. The rest on the list are cult classics because they follow the definition above. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= _____________________________________________________ This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:02:46 -0700 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever >The list is confusing popularity of cultural references with cultness. >Simpson's are watched by too many people to be considered a cult classic. Agreed. But I think the truest of the cult shows on the list is "Farscape" as it is SO cult that it NEVER hit main stream, and pretty much, if you don't watch it, you've never heard of it. ;) BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:09:02 -0400 From: "bookdaft" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever Fox controlled the X-Files far too much to allow the fans to run their own cons and allowed the stars to have much input. However, if you want to run a fancon and talk about the show, even write fan fiction about the show, it can be done. I know that fanfic was being written because I have friends who read it. But the situation was not like with Trek and Xena, where the producers realized they needed the fans and developed a relationship with them. There have been long time rumors that Gene Roddenberry organized the letter-writing campaign which saved Star Trek for a third season, although Bjo Trimble, who ran the campaign, heatedly denies it. bd - -----Original Message----- From: owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org [mailto:owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Sarah Anne Packard Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:35 PM To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever > > Cult shows also tend to have cons, which many of > > these don't (though it's not a requirement or > > anything). > > There are currently more active cons for _Buffy_ than > for X:WP. (Just ask abbagirl, who has been to several > of them ... ;) Lol, thanks for the shoutout. ;) By the way, did X-Files ever have cons? I've been trying to remember...it seems like there have been some...Farscape, Xena, Buffy and Trek have all had cons...heck, even La Femme Nikita had cons! That was somewhat of a cult show, too. > > I actually think TV Guide did a pretty good job with > the list, aside from the Simpsons/Futurama gaffe. The > only show they totally missed, IMO, was _Northern > Exposure_. Ooh, good call...oh wait, I just thought of a big cult show that wasn't on the list! Twin Peaks!! :) I love Twin Peaks. Although one might argue, I suppose, that it also was too famous/mainstream to be cult? But it's debatable how many people who knew about the whole "who killed Laura Palmer?" thing actually watched the show... *shrug* -Sarah, aka the abbagirl- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= _____________________________________________________ This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:09:02 -0400 From: "bookdaft" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever It is #20; Dark Shadows is 19. bd - -----Original Message----- From: owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org [mailto:owner-chakram-refugees@smoe.org]On Behalf Of Meredith Tarr Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 2:48 PM To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever Hi, abbagirl responded: > Lol, thanks for the shoutout. ;) By the way, did > X-Files ever have cons? I think they had at least one, but I don't recall for sure. > Ooh, good call...oh wait, I just thought of a big > cult show that wasn't > on the list! Twin Peaks!! :) It is on the list ... I don't have the magazine with me, but I think it was #19 or so. Meredith meth@smoe.org __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= _____________________________________________________ This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:06:04 -0700 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever > > Cult shows also tend to have cons, which many of > > these don't (though it's not a requirement or > > anything). > >There are currently more active cons for _Buffy_ than >for X:WP. (Just ask abbagirl, who has been to several >of them ... ;) As I mentioned, NOT a requirement. Also comparing Xena and Buffy cons is like apples and oranges. Xena has been gone three season now and Buffy only one. The Xena cons were still running strong first season out. Hell, we had the CRUISE that year! And the Xena cons are still big, as they can still bring in Lucy and Renee. BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:13:33 -0500 From: HJJH Subject: RE: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows Ever bookdaft said... >I would agree that the Simpsons don't really fit the definition, >but the early Star Wars did, until it became a marketing machine. ...but that Star Wars did would disagree with her premise... >Perhaps a redefinition of "cultness" is that it tends to >fly under the radar. For, if, back in 1977, SW flew in under the radar, it soared right up to the stratosphere almost immediately... nearly within a matter of days. By the time it hit Austin, long lines waited in the Texas heat for every showing, and it was held over week after week. I \know/. I was there! Every Friday night all summer. (U. Texas' computers were inaccessible that night for the weekly backup [Any of you ear-back-damp young whippersnappers remember \that/ necessity?]) The opening day was one of those salient moments that stick in one's memory. The whole Linguistics Research Center where I worked attended en masse-- from the august Director to the lowliest work-study student. We had it worked out beautifully, with one team set to get there early for tickets, two of which they handed off to a particularly stalwart pair to elbow (bulldoze?) their way thru the entering crowd in order to get to and guard each end of a whole row of good seats. Another buddy waited outside with the tickets for the rest of us to collect. I got mine and went in... And then it started, and when that first humongous starship rumbled "overhead" and the whole theatre SHOOK-- Whewwwww! ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. 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