From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #135 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Friday, May 14 2004 Volume 04 : Number 135 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] The Season 5 & 6 dvd extras!!! [Sarah Anne Packard ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Fates Again [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Fates Again [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Season 5 & 6 dvd extras!!! ["A. Reddecliffe" <] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 01:38:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Sarah Anne Packard Subject: [chakram-refugees] The Season 5 & 6 dvd extras!!! Sharon Delaney posted em today! (Technically yesterday, since it's now after midnight, lol...) Season 5 Fallen Angel -- audio commentary by RJ Stewart, interviews with RJ Stewart, Hudson Leick Chakram -- interviews with Lucy & Renee, Chris Manheim, Doug Lefler Animal Attraction -- interviews with Chris Manheim, Rick Jacobson Them Bones, Them Bones -- interviews with Eric Gruendemann, Rob Field Back In The Bottle -- interview with Rick Jacobson Seeds Of Faith -- audio commentary by Lucy & Renee, interviews with Rob Tapert, Hudson Leick Lyre, Lyre, Hearts On Fire -- interviews with Lucy & Renee, Armus & Foster God Fearing Child -- interviews with Lucy & Renee, Philip Sgriccia Eternal Bonds -- interview with Chris Manheim Married With Fishsticks -- interviews with Rob Tapert, Eric Gruendemann Lifeblood -- interviews with Rob Tapert & Michael Hurst Antony & Cleopatra -- audio commentary by Lucy & Renee & Rob Tapert & Michael Hurst, interview with RJ Stewart Livia -- interviews with Adrienne Wilkinson, William Gregory Lee, Chris Manheim, Rick Jacobson Eve -- interviews with Adrienne Wilkinson, William Gregory Lee, RJ Stewart Motherhood -- audio commentary by Lucy & Renee & Rob Tapert, interviews with Adrienne Wilkinson, William Gregory Lee, Rick Jacobson, Rob Field NOTE: The Ted and Bruce session covered Lyre, Eternal Bonds and Livia. Season 6 Coming Home -- interviews with Lucy & Renee & Rob Tapert, Missy Good, Adrienne Wilkinson Heart of Darkness -- interviews with Adrienne Wilkinson, William Gregory Lee Who's Gurkhan -- interviews with Rob Tapert & Michael Hurst, Adrienne Wilkinson, William Gregory Lee, Rob Field Legacy -- interviews with Missy Good, Eric Gruendemann The Rheingold -- interviews with RJ Stewart & Eric Gruendemann, Rob Tapert The Ring -- audio commentary by Joel Metzger, interviews with RJ Stewart & Eric Gruendemann, Rob Tapert The Return Of The Valkyrie -- interviews with RJ Stewart & Eric Gruendemann, Rob Tapert Old Ares Had A Farm -- interview with Rob Tapert Dangerous Prey -- interviews with Renee & Lucy & Rob Tapert, Joel Metzger, Rob Field You Are There -- interviews with Michael Hurst & Rob Tapert, Adrienne Wilkinson Path Of Vengeance -- interviews with Adrienne Wilkinson, Joel Metzger To Helicon And Back -- audio commentary by Lucy & Renee & Rob Tapert & Michael Hurst, interview with Liz Friedman The Last Of The Centaurs -- interview with Joel Metzger When Fates Collide -- audio commentary by Lucy & Renee & Rob Tapert, interviews with Katherine Fugate, Rob Field Many Happy Returns -- interviews with Lucy & Renee, Liz Friedman Soul Possession -- interview with Melissa Blake A Friend In Need Part 2 -- audio commentary by Lucy & Renee & Rob Tapert -Sarah, aka the abbagirl- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 18:55:16 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Fates Again On Thu, 13 May 2004 09:25, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 5/12/2004 5:42:12 AM Central Daylight Time, > > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > What I cannot accept, is that there was any reason for Xena in the 'real' > > world to accept or forgive Caesar for crucifying her.>> > > Understood. > > > I do not see that Xena had any part of the blame for the setting up of > > Caesar's world, and therefore I don't see that she should feel obligated > > to hop back on that cross again to end it. >> > > Uh huh. > > > I had no problem with the > > basic premise of WFC - that Caesar messed with the loom. And that > > destroying the loom brought the 'real' world back, I could accept even > > though > > it didn't strictly make sense. It was the Xena-having-to-get-crucified > > that > > I still don't see the logical necessity for. >> > > Clearly. > > > No, it's not rewriting the story, it's saying there are too many weak > > points > > in the story. > > Hmmm. And some of those "many weak points" could be fixed (based on your > comments) by maybe having Xena feel no connection to Alti's visions > (assuming there are visions), No, I didn't mind the visions - which I guess, technically, were Xena's subconscious 'memories' that Alti tapped into. I liked that Alti was surprised at what she found. What I find diffcult to credit is that Xena would interpret them that she had to go and get crucified. > treat Gabs as any other sappy playwright she just met yep :) > (assuming Gabs is there at all), optional 8-) > fight the guards/kill Caesar (aka > The Treacherous Little Rat/Dangerous Little Pest) like "real" Xena would in > the "real" world, works for me :) > definitely avoid crosses at all costs, I think that's something any sane person would do. *If* Xena had been dragged there and crucified against all her resistance, that I could accept. Xena doing it voluntarily - no. > and destroy the loom herself to restore the world? Yep, *if* Xena thought that was the necessary step. > The beginning (Caesar's messing with > the loom) and the end (when X&G pop back into their "true" world) would > basically stay the same? Xena'd still get to wear that cool black outfit? Oh yeah. :) > Okey dokey. I suppose I can picture that as the story. Might have to > change the title though -- e.g., "Fates: The Episode That Was Supposed To > Air." Whew! If I could just learn (sooner) to stop making things so > difficult! > > -- Ife the Agreeable (snorts accepted/forgiven) It'd work, too, wouldn't it? :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 19:07:19 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Fates Again On Thu, 13 May 2004 16:07, Janice Stewart wrote: > On Mon, 10 May 2004 18:19:17 +1200 > > cr wrote: > > On Mon, 10 May 2004 06:49, Janice Stewart wrote: > > > > (snip) > > > > > I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think Gabby would have been > > > motivated to take out the loom had Xena not submitted to the > > crucifixion. > > > > So, in my view, Xena's dying on the cross had everything to do with it. > > > > Well that's a pretty bizarre and twisted way of getting Gabs to muster > > the necessary destructive impulses, not to mention unreliable. How the > > heck could Xena know what Gabs would do? > > > > It could have been achieved far more directly, certainly, economically, > > and > > > effectively, simply by having Xena destroy the loom herself. She was > > very > > > good at destroying god-things. > > > > (snip) > > > > cr > > When viewing Fates, my take on it (mainly from Xena's > everything-happens-precisely-as-it-should speech) was that Xena's mission > in this ep was not to destroy Caesar in the alt world, but rather to > destroy the alt world. That scense also gave me the impression that Xena > KNEW, maybe not cognitively but intuitively, that she would have to submit > to the cross to achieve that end. I just chalked it up to her > spidey-sense. Anyway, that's how it struck me. > > XWPacolyte > Cupid and Psyche... Antony and Cleopatra... Xena and Gabrielle. I'm sure that was the intention of the script. Without going all over that again , I just don't think it hangs together very well. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:20:35 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Fates Again In a message dated 5/13/2004 2:16:22 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > On Thu, 13 May 2004 09:25, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > cr said: > >> No, it's not rewriting the story, it's saying there are too many weak > >>points > >>in the story. > > > >Hmmm. And some of those "many weak points" could be fixed (based on your > >comments) by maybe having Xena feel no connection to Alti's visions > >(assuming there are visions), > > No, I didn't mind the visions - which I guess, technically, were Xena's > subconscious 'memories' that Alti tapped into. I liked that Alti was > surprised at what she found. What I find diffcult to credit is that Xena > would interpret them that she had to go and get crucified. > > >treat Gabs as any other sappy playwright she just met > yep :) > > >(assuming Gabs is there at all), > optional 8-) > > >fight the guards/kill Caesar (aka > >The Treacherous Little Rat/Dangerous Little Pest) like "real" Xena would in > >the "real" world, > works for me :) > > >definitely avoid crosses at all costs, > I think that's something any sane person would do. *If* Xena had been > dragged there and crucified against all her resistance, that I could accept. > > Xena doing it voluntarily - no. > > >and destroy the loom herself to restore the world? > Yep, *if* Xena thought that was the necessary step. > > >The beginning (Caesar's messing with > >the loom) and the end (when X&G pop back into their "true" world) would > >basically stay the same? Xena'd still get to wear that cool black outfit? > Oh yeah. :) > > >Okey dokey. I suppose I can picture that as the story. Might have to > >change the title though -- e.g., "Fates: The Episode That Was Supposed To > >Air." Whew! If I could just learn (sooner) to stop making things so > >difficult! > > > >-- Ife the Agreeable (snorts accepted/forgiven) > > It'd work, too, wouldn't it? :) >> As long as it works for you. Now we can both exit satisfied. :-) - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 22:37:19 +0100 From: "A. Reddecliffe" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Season 5 & 6 dvd extras!!! The Season 5 & 6 dvd extras!!! > Sharon Delaney posted em today! (Technically yesterday, since it's now > after midnight, lol...) > Season 6 > Dangerous Prey -- interviews with Renee & Lucy & Rob Tapert, Joel Metzger, > Rob Field Oh this needed a full commentary by ROC as she directed it. She really needed to talk us through the entire ep. Missed opportunity? This list also didn't give any directors cuts... Are they still on the cards? Episode trailers? These are well worth all the trouble it takes to get my hands on them :-) Ann ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #135 **************************************