From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #117 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, April 26 2004 Volume 04 : Number 117 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Sacrifice - extra scenes [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Relativity [was: The Seasons] [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Xena reference on Air America Radio! ["Daniel T. Mille] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena made the Monday April 19 Chicago Tribune crossword [IfeRae@] [chakram-refugees] Fates Again [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Lucy reference [HJJH ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 23:43:46 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Sacrifice - extra scenes I've just watched the DVD with the extra scenes of Sacrifice. Verry interesting. I wish those extra scenes had made it into the episodes. I suppose it's too late for a Director's Cut (I imagine the Director's Cut of FIN was planned whole they were making it, so all the footage was there. With Sacrifice, I guess the deleted scenes only exist in rough-cut or dailies or whatever). Anyway, as with FIN, where the extra scenes helped to set the scene for Xena staying dead, I felt the extra scenes in Sacrifice helped explain just why Callisto wanted dead. Besides which, any scene with Callisto in it is just fun to watch. There was the scene in the temple with Callisto, Hope and Ares - Ares asks Hope 'What's with the outfit?' and Callisto says "She wants to fell closer to Mommy" - quite perceptive of Callisto, in the light of the later scene between Hope and Gabrielle. And, Hope gets to tell Ares what his special 'purpose' was. Umm, Joxer's first encounter with Dahak's press-gang "You're either a brave warrior or stupid" Joxer (aside) "A little of both, I think" And after Seraphin knocks him out, they all walk over him. I ain't a Joxerfan but I'd have enjoyed that scene. There was the scene where Callisto was trying to convince Xena to accept her help and Gabs agreed with Callisto that Xena was taking it way too personally. In the missing footage, we get to see Callisto 'materialise' (rather than just cut to three of 'em walking), Callisto mentions Solan and Xena swats her, then when Callisto says 'you're taking it way too personally' and Gabs agrees, there's a nice little interchange between Gabrielle and Callisto. And Callisto points out the damage she's likely to do if she's still around after Xena's dead. Callisto thanks Gabrielle who tells her "I didn't do this for you. I'll be so glad when your miserable existence is over" and Callisto replies "Well, we finally have something in common". That line is just sooo Callisto. Then, the extended scene in the village where Callisto got a little carried away blowing things up. Xena tells Callisto to behave herself and 'play by her rules' - so Callisto stands around rather sulkily for a few minutes before she zaps one of Dahak's goons and then starts to really enjoy herself. Besides, watching Callisto blowing things up is always fun :) This makes a little more credibility to when Xena tells Gabs to get the Hinds Blood Dagger 'while Callisto's occupied'. At some point here 'Gabs' says "I won't fail you. I'm just sorry that I ..... " (I can't make out the rest, but I think from Xena's expression that maybe it's at this moment she realises 'Gabs' is actually Hope. Or maybe not. Then Xena says "When it comes Hope's turn to die I'll make it fast". Hope/Gabs: "Unfortunately the poison I used wasn't fast enough. She suffered, Xena. I tried to comfort her but unfortunately I didn't do a very good job." Xena: "I didn't know, I'm sorry". Gabs: "She's evil, she deserves to die". Xena " Maybe even to suffer a little". Now that line, which did make the final cut, always seemed to come out of nowhere - the previous dialogue shows where it came from. There was a brief cut scene where Ares tells Dahak the sacrifices are on their way, as he walks away he says (sotto voce) "and they call _me_ a megalomaniac" - the scene woulda been worth it for that line alone. And the one I really miss - the fireside scene between Xena and Callisto - "This is probably the last night sky either one of us will ever see". Ending with Callisto saying "I'm going to miss our fireside chats" - in that scene, Xena almost seems to come to terms with Callisto. And there was a lengthy scene with the sacrifices getting hauled into the temple and the Dahakettes dancing, which was not much loss, except that we got to saw Seraphin leading some of the sacrifices in, dagger at the ready... this would have helped establish the appearance in the final cut of Seraphin holding a dagger, which was otherwise kinda sudden... Anyway, for every line that was better left out, I think there were five that would have been better left in. Oh well, it was still a fantastic episode. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 16:09:14 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Relativity [was: The Seasons] In a message dated 4/24/2004 1:51:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jyoung@lava.net writes: > Well, in my absence, I see Ife was keeping up my end of things..... ;) > > I only have 3 words: Whatever Ife says! ;) LOL You *go*, girl!! ;) (OK, > that's 6. ;) ) > Ah, the other half of the tag team returns! I hung in there for the rounds, but I can't say we did more than go ... round and round. I'm glad you quoted Einstein's comments about intution and science drawing on "everyday life." I couldn't remember all that I'd read about him a long time ago, but I do recall he had many interests and probably wouldn't object to people using his ideas to help articulate commonalities in a variety of areas. What it boils down to for me is that his ideas about time, space, distance, etc. help people grasp the notion of viewpoints being influenced by where one "is," which can be very different from the viewpoint of someone in a different place. I'm glad you mentioned Einstein, otherwise we probably woudn't have gotten the dimension cr provided. Cr may not agree, but I think the concrete examples do enhance the philosophical ones, even if the links aren't "pure." I think they do apply to human behavior, in the sense that we generally use "relative to" or "relativity." Cr's train/plane/runway example is concrete, "neutral" in the sense of not involving judgment about which viewpoint is "right" or "better." I find that people are more likely to accept that another viewpoint is possible -- even "natural" -- when it's explained in such a "neutral" way. It's one of the reasons I do value science as a communications tool. Even when people don't understand all the details, they can find meaning in the principle or the essence. Obviously, you have to blur the lines between disciplines in order to take that leap or make that connection. - -- Ife - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 13:55:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "Daniel T. Miller" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Xena reference on Air America Radio! And I missed it! Darn! Darn! Darn! Air America is the new liberal radio network. My brother told me that yesterday, when he was listening to the rerun of a weekday Randi Rhodes show, a woman called in and said Xena should be Bushbs new role model. Because they are both war criminals but Xena reformed. Ow! Anyone hear this? Was it someone on this list? Fess up. :~) - -- __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25" http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 22:41:54 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena made the Monday April 19 Chicago Tribune crossword In a message dated 4/24/2004 2:49:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time, d_t_miller@yahoo.com writes: > I donbt think it has happened yet, but someday X:WP > will be like the original Star Trek or Gunsmoke -- > people who know basic popular culture, who never saw > the TV show, will get a least the basic references. > Oh, I think it already has. I'm always hearing/seeing Xena mentioned by folks who turn to know little or nothing about the show. The main difference is that the focus seems to be on Xena herself or the concept of the who, with many folks not having a clue about Gabs or Ares or Joxer. With the shows you mention, we knew about characters beyond Kirk or Marshall Dillon. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 22:41:57 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Fates Again I got my Chakram newsletter #26, which has an interview with Katherine Fugate about Fates. A few bits that caught my attention for one reason or another. Some deal with issues that received lots of discussion. 1. Fugate said she didn't write the cross-cutting of scenes between Alti killing Caesar and Xena being nailed. She simply had Alti killing Caesar on the platform where Xena could see it. The director, John Fawcett, pointed out to her the similarity between Destiny and Ides, like Caesar's nightmare near the beginning of Ides (when Xena's the knife-wielder in his bed) and of Fugate's having Alti kill Caesar. Fugate says, "Now it's happening again only with Alti. It was meant to say that certain things are meant to be. So John came up with the idea of recreating the opening scene of Ides using Alti in place of Xena." 2. In terms of what Caesar did with the loom, Fugate says, "Actually, you could say he was changing his strand, not Xena's. He went back to his point in time where he made a decision and took a different path." 3. About how she conceived Fates X&G, Fugate says, "There was nothing in [Xena's] makeup that said she was gong to become so evil until that betrayal.... Xena is always going to be a powerful woman and a leader of some sort. The question is, is she going to be a bad guy or a good guy?" As to Gabs, Fugate says that most writers write about their fantasies, not what they actually experience. "If Gabrielle came into Greek aristocracy as a playright at the time of Sophocles, Plato, they were revered. And you become very proper. She says, 'I wrote my plays. I lived in a vineyard by the sea, but I never fell in love.' So she never became feisty. She never had any travels and adventures to become a warrior." 4. Fugate says what Xena had with Caesar was about power, not love -- that she thinks Xena had never been in love. "Meeting Gabrielle was so Xena could experience love. that's who Gabrielle is to her, above all things, to give her the face of love." Similarly, Gabrielle's play was about "something in us that yearns for what we haven't experienced, but maybe we're going to.... I wanted the play to show that a part of Gabriele did know something was missing in her life besides love. It was adventures, like what happened in Fallen Angel [the ep]." She later says that the lines she wrote for Gabs' play of the same title were based on the shooting script of FA. 5. There was a longer version of Fates as a two-parter. Gabs convinces some loyal guards to break Xena out, but Xena refuses. 6. She talks about wanting Xena in pants, "out of that dress. Lucy thanked me." She happened to pick bows and arrows for Xena to use, with no connection to the finale. 7. When asked, "Were you meaning to portray a same-sex love?", she says, "I don't think of it as same-sex love as much as I think of it as these two are in love." She says the show was set up to show, "They will always find each other, they will always mean something to each other. This particular time, they're two women.... People live many lifetimes, in many bodies and have many experiences. All of it is valid and beautiful and wonderful. It's just a body." 8. In the first two drafts, Caesar sends Gabs away and kills her out of Xena's sight, but they had to condense that into what we saw. 9. As to Some People's opinion that Xena would not let herself be crucified without a fight, Fugate says, "All Xena knows is that the point in time Caesar changed should not have been changed and that was her crucifixion. He stopped it. She knows that path was the right path and she accepts that now. She was supposed to be on that cross. That led to the bad Xena which led to the Warrior Princess who fought for good and that led to Gabrielle. That was Xena's destiny.... That's all she knows and that's what she had to trust and believe in. That's how this world started and this is how it will end.... Gabrielle doesn't know she's going to bring the world back, but she does. So Xena was right." Sharon compares this to the "leap of faith" Xena took in FA when she dove into hell to save Gabs. Fugate responds, 'It's the same thng. It wasn't a passive act. It was an act of extreme courage, faith and belief. This life was a mistake and she's going to undo it.... She coldn't get out of it by fighting. She had to accept her destiny, accept her choices in life. She had to go back to the point in time she had always hated -- being crucified, being betrayed." - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:51:12 -0500 From: HJJH Subject: [chakram-refugees] Lucy reference Hey, why haven't some of you guys who can type with more than 2 fingers sent this in? In today's "Celebrities" column of the TV info supplement to the Sunday paper was-- Q: Lucy Lawless of "Xena" played the aunt on "Tarzan." Is she starring in anything else in the near future? A: Former Warrior Princess Lawless will be in the movie "Boogeyman" starring "7th Heaven's" Barry Watson, being released in August. It's about a young man who was traumatized by the memories of terrible events he experienced in his childhood bedroom but must return home years later to face his fears. She also had a part in the recently released "Eurotrip." ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #117 **************************************