From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #94 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Sunday, April 4 2004 Volume 04 : Number 094 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] The Debt [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Season Four (4) [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Season Four (4) [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Season Four (4) [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Lord of the rings vs Xena [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Debt [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Lord of the rings vs Xena [cjlnh@webtv.net (Cheryl] Re: [chakram-refugees] Season Four (4) [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Lord of the rings vs Xena [Lee Daley Subject: [chakram-refugees] The Debt KT wrote: > > > I just think that China is like Japan in "face" being very important. So I > > tend to think that destroying his palace destroyed his standing and > > therefore destroyed his political base. I could be wrong... > > > > But I think that Xena killing him was supposed to be deliberate and > > unnecessary--this is part of the rift right? > > Where bad things happen to > > cause friction between the grrls. THOUGH as you pointed out a coupla > > months ago and I had totally never really realized in terms of its impact > > on the story, Xena takes off to kill him right from the start. > > In what way? I mean, what is the impact on the story that you hadn't > realised? > Well, just in terms of all the discussions I've read on the Debt and Xena's intent. From the first time it aired, many, many posters talked about "Did she mean to kill him?" When hell, Xena says right at the beginning of the story, a whole number of times that she's off to off "the Green Dragon". (I love the line she tosses over her shoulder to Gabrielle, "I'm going on a long journey.") Giggle. So why are we all endlessly discussing if she killed him or not? Of course, we were led to believe that she was going to leave him alive and just walk away--until he taunted Xena with his glee at Lao Ma's horrible and humiliating death. > (snip) > I don't think I wrote this--I think the whole thing is cr's: > > > BUT - hate fits much better with the selection of 'spooks' in BS than > > > guilt. Ming, Khrafstar, Caesar, Ares, Callisto. She had no reason to > > > feel guilty about Caesar, Khrafstar or Ares, but she had plenty of reason > > > to hate all five. And, "Hate is the star". > > > > > > Well spotted, thanks! > > > > > > cr > > KT: > > You're welcome! So perhaps in season three, we should say, "Show's called > > Hate!"? > > > > KT > > Nah, Xena's still more interesting ;) > > cr > Endlessly. But you know, I wonder now why the heck Hope wasn't in that set of "things to release your hate over". Certainly both X&G had reasons to deeply hate Hope. All I can figure is that maybe we were being told that there's no reason for Gabrielle to regret killing that little demon and there's no reason for Xena to give up her hatred towards her. Their actions towards her were appropriate perhaps? Because at this point, they think she's dead and they've saved the world from Dahok. Just seems odd that when the grrls have to release their hatred of some of their enemies, that Callisto is part of that package and yet Hope isn't. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 21:18:52 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season Four (4) On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 16:45, KTL wrote: > > Oh no you don't, Ife. YOU first used the psychological jargon concept of > "space" in this discussion. I don't use that word that way. IF I did, it > would have been tongue in cheek, with quotes around it. But I don't > believe I brought that concept up at all. You did. I don't dare comment on that :) > Thel: > > Oh, OK, I'll shoot KT instead then. (Launches ICBM in the general > > direction of Alaska. [bang] ) There, that's done. > > Ah, thank you, dear! That explains the very warm early March weather we > enjoyed. It does not however, explain the somewhat cold late March weather > we are currently experiencing. Nuclear winter? > It hit 27 below last night and my shower > drain froze up. I HATE stepping into the shower and feeling cool water > pooling around my ankles... Errm, just imagine you're in a Xena episode..... cold water seemed to happen quite often to our hero. > > Now, as we were > > saying... you gave less value to Xena going off to do her thing - I > > think you mean you attached less significance to it? Umm, I've lost > > the thread, > > Yes, haven't we all. Grin. > > Thel? Waste of time asking me, I can't remember what I was doing yesterday. :} > > > > However, my view is that much of Xena's uncertainty came from her > > > > fear that she was somehow going to be responsible for Gabs getting > > > > crucified. So to me, Gabs was an indirect cause of Xena 'not being > > > > herself'. Not because of > > > > anything she did, just that she was there. Had she been safe and > > > > far away, > > > > Xena would have been less apprehensive. This is why she tried (as > > > > KT said) to give Gabs away even more than usual in S4. >> > > Yes. That I did say. She more often just tried to leave her behind. In > season four she kept trying to give her away. It was NOT successful. > Perhaps Gabrielle's reputation as a self-righteous pain in the butt > preceeded her? I imagine the gossip mills of the time were buzzing about > Xena the Destroyer of Nations hanging around with an irritating little > blond kid who kept claiming that Xena was now a force for good. AND who > kept getting in Xena's face (THAT phrase, I do use...) as she tried to do > her job in ways that do work in war, but were unacceptable in the little > blond kid's world view. Ah well, that bit started in Season 3, if not before. I remember it particularly in The Debt. > NOT that *I* have any problem with that. (Well, other than the > self-righteous part.) Gabrielle's job was to be Xena's Jiminy Cricket. > And the lord knows, Jiminy Crickets, while usually right, can be a real > downer to hang around with. Umm, sidekicks. (sigh). Gabrielle, Joxer, Aarfy, Pippin... (see my OT post on Lord of the Rings...) > Oh hey--wouldn't THAT have been a fun "homage"? Xena as the wooden, stiff > puppet trying to become a real person, Gabrielle as Jiminy, Joxer as the > bumbling little Figaro, hmmmm Ares as Gepetto? (Since he's been pulling > Xena's strings for a LOOOOONG time), Callisto as a somewhat crazed Blue > Fairy, all of Xena's bad boy lust stirrers as the naughty gang on Pleasure > Island (and what GREAT scenes we could have with Xena and all those bad > boys, smoking, drinking, gambling and various other carousings--hooooo- > hoooooo!), Salmoneous as the nasty, money grubbing circus master, Minya > and Paulina (from The Plays The Thing) as the fox and cat actors and Alti > as Monstro. (She could make growly innuendos about eating Xena.) Boy, did > they miss the boat on that one or what? Yep, coulda been Married With Fishsticks Part 2. KT, I have *no* idea what you're talking about, but if the ground wasn't all covered in snow up there I might suspect an early crop of Magic Mushrooms ;-) > > Umm. OK. I think this is starting to get obscure. I won't pursue > > it. > > > > (rest snipped) > > > > cr > > Aw c'mon Thel. When has obtuse, er excuse me, obscure ever stopped you and > Ife before? > > A discourse on handicapped drivers anyone? > > KT > wink > > Hmmmm. I see heck maybe close to a hundred posts with various > subject lines, but apparently about the same thing--"The Unattractive > Xena", "The Eye of the Beholder", The seasons. DARE I dip my toe in > one of those....hmmmmmmm Never stopped you before. :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 22:05:45 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season Four (4) On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 15:36, KTL wrote: > > > > We're both saying the behavior changes came because of Xena's > > > >internal struggle. I'm simply taking it a step further to say that I > > > > saw > > > > > > her treat > > > > > > >Gabs differently as a result. > > > > > > Yes, I know. I didn't. >> > > > > Well, you kept saying Xena didn't do something because of Gabs, so I > > wasn't sure you were getting that we were starting from the same > > premise. > > No, just about everybody noticed the differences in Xena in regards to her > warrior expertise in Season Four. I remember endless debates on it on all > the lists I was on at the time. Along the lines of "What the FURK is going > on with Xena?!" There was one fan who I used to have a regular correspondence with who was so disconcerted by this that she stopped watching forever. > But all the discussions I saw revolved around her sudden "failures" at her > job. I didn't see anyone else talk about her relationship with Gabrielle > suddenly being transformed. Those who spoke about Gabrielle (and there > were some...) were mostly in an absolute tizzy about Gabrielle suddenly > becoming a peacenik. A change which I felt wasn't totally irrational at > all. That striving towards talking things out without resorting to weapons > was always present in Gab. (Except when she got all wrapped up in an > excited, yippy haze while watching Xena fight.) Except that Gabs' extreme pacifism was a most unrealistic application of it. See 'Gandhi' for a rather more practical modus operandi. > I remember that Gabrielle's turn towards not wanting to fight generated a > huge discussion on the lists about Pacificism. Some folks absolutely raged > at PacRen for "getting it wrong". I doubt very strongly that RJ, with his > great interests in comparative religions, philosophy and social movements, > would be so far off base in depicting "peace warriors". What these fans > missed I think was the fact that GABRIELLE got it wrong. She was more > committed to a life with Xena than to a life as a pacifist. So of course > she didn't get it right. I think this was the usual case of people (mis)interpreting a specific example in an episode, as a general message. That is, "Pacifism as applied by Gabs is futile" = "All pacifism is futile". Or, "Hope turned bad, Eve turned bad" = "All children turn bad". And then raging at the fictitious product of their own creation. > And again, this is just showing that Xena doesn't trust her twitchy senses > anymore. She KNOWS bad stuff is coming down in Paradise Found. She knows > right from the beginning that Najara is a big ol' phony. But instead of > walking away from her, she ASKS her for advice! It has nothing to do with > following where Gabrielle leads but everything to do with not trusting her > own abilities anymore. BECAUSE she learned in season three that perhaps > her old way of belief and the way she was living her life was totally > bogus in some ways. An impression eagerly aided and abetted by Gabrielle in S3 ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 22:55:02 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season Four (4) On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 15:21, KTL wrote: > No doubt Ife wrote: > > > I saw Xena trying to stay with Gabs despite the vision. She can't come > > > up with anything herself, so she follows Gabs' lead when possible. She > > > acquiesces to Gabs' arguments about the vision in Past Imperfect. > > > She's glad Gab saves her in Locked Up. She hopes Gabs is right about > > > finding meaning for herself through Njara, Aiden and in India. When > > > she realizes some of those alternatives are frauds, she doesn't > > > suggest that Gabs go back to Poteidaia. > > cr replied: > > I think it was more that Xena was preoccupied and confused, than that she > > was actively following Gabs' lead. She woulda followed Joxer just as > > readily, had he been there instead. > > Exactly. Xena has almost never cared where she is. As we've discussed > before, she's voluntarily homeless so a choice of "place" is not something > that rates high with her. Usually, people call her somewhere, in order to > get her to help them. > > In season three she kind of sends herself off to "help others from my > depraved and flamingly horrific past" when she finds out from Kraftstar at > the beginning of "The Deliverer" that Boudicca was taking on Caesar. This > is something I only just realized when watching this ep on DVD. Xena gets > REALLY interested when Kraftstar mentions that Boudicca is fighting > Caesar. Xena says to him that he should sign her up on his list of > mercenaries he's been recuiting to fight Caesar, because she's going to > Britannia with him to help Boudicca--and to destroy Ceasar. > > Now I wonder if she was totally honest or somewhat scamming herself. Did > she really want to help Boudicca take him out? Or was she primarily > interested in taking the opportunity to right another of her "my bads" of > the past by apologizing to Boudicca and helping her roust an invading > force from her country. OR, did SHE want to take Caesar out and not let > Boudicca have that glory? I think it was probably a mish-mosh of all of > these things. At any rate, it definitely made her send herself to > Britannia. I'm sure she had mixed motives. Since when did anyone ever have pure motives? 'Help Boadicea' -> Go to Britannia 'Stop Caesar' -> Go to Britannia (and remember, Caesar at this time was behaving exactly like the sort of warlord Xena had spent all S1 / S2 fighting, so stopping him was entirely consistent quite aside from any personal reasons) 'Revenge on Caesar' -> Go to Britannia Come to think of it, what possible reason would there have been for her _not_ to go? > And she dropped in on Cyrene a few times. To tell her about the changes in > her life in Sins of the Past, to try to get some information out of her > about her father in The Furies, to celebrate Gabrielle's birthday in Takes > One to Know One. But mostly, Xena just wandered around, trailing > Gabrielle and various heroes of the week. I never saw any indication that > she cared where she was. She was the Wandering Princess as weel as the > Warrior Princess. > > Snipped discussion on "Who's life (sentence) is it anyway?" But as I've > said before, I LOVE this exchange from Locked up, Tied Down: > > Xena: "I try not to overanalyze my life, unlike some people." > > Gabrielle: "Some people say the unexamined life is not worth living." > > Xena: "Those people haven't lived MY life." > > (GOTTA be) cr saying: > > And Xena's defeat by Najara, who she would normally have wiped the floor > > with - that was hardly her kick-butt self, was it? How did Gabs cause > > that? > > > > > (I can hardly believe I'm arguing in *favour* of the little blonde > > > kid..... > > > > > :) > > Yup. Gotta be c. You are, of course, entirely correct. > Cheerfully snipping the rest, I remain, > > Yours truly, > KT Why, had you thought of being somebody else? ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 23:24:50 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Lord of the rings vs Xena I posted the original of this on a sci-fi list, mostly about Lord of the Rings and hence partly OT, but verges on Xena things so I hope I'll be excused posting it here. Hmmm, after just one viewing of Fellowship of the Ring (yes folks, I may be the last person in NZ to actually watch LOTR!) I have to agree with some of the critics about the scenery, the special FX, and the characters - which is to say, glorious, very impressive, and boring. ;) That's a bit of an over-simplification I guess. The scenery was indeed glorious, what more need I say? (Except that, visiting many of the locations in the LOTR Locations Guidebook may well be less rewarding for a fan than visiting, say, Xena locations, because LOTR seems to have used many of these locations for just a few seconds on screen and they were often gussied up with set dressing and/or CGI, so the reality may disappoint. Xena, OTOH, tended to reuse locations many times over and with little modification which means that much more 'happened' in any particular location). Of course, RenPics used some equally fine bits of scenery, but (other than the Bethells locations and the rare visits to Ruapehu and such places), usually in the form of brief shots intercut between the action, rather than as actual filming locations. This, of course, is a reflection of the relative budgets. The special FX were, mostly, excellent. Often sufficiently good that it was hard to tell where set 'scenery' or makeup ended and CGI began. The scenes on the stairs and the collapsing bridge in the Mines of Moria gave me vertigo (and it's a long time since a movie did that). In fact I found it hard to credit how anyone could walk, let alone run, down a stairway or across a narrow bridge like that with no handrails (I know it was CGI, but it sure looked real to me!) I don't recall that Flat Earth ever managed to reach quite the same degree of realism but then, they didn't have the same budget either. The characters were, mostly, passable but not great - reasonably pleasant to watch in action, but not really engaging. Aside, that is, from the incredibly irritating Hobbit sidekicks Sam, Merry and Pippin (the last being worst). Is there some law that says all fiction and movie writers have to put in a sidekick who continually does stupid things and endangers everybody near him? And who, for some totally unaccountable reason, the hero omits to ditch at the first convenient opportunity? In FoTR there was one in particular, Pippin, the character with the pseudo-Irish accent, who I continually wanted to swat into oblivion with a blunt instrument. Next question - why is it that film-makers feel that giving such a character an Irish accent somehow makes them quaint, lovable and able to be forgiven for their suicidal incompetence and stupidity? (I'm not getting at the Irish, I love a genuine Irish accent, but bestowing it on the biggest public menace in every movie surely does a disservice to the Irish!). At least Gandalf showed some irritation with this idiot - "Next time, throw yourself down" (said with a satisfying snarl). But we know, in the next episode or two (and I haven't read the books nor seen the two later films) that Pippin and Merry will bravely escape from captivity and do something noble to redeem their stupidity. Tell me if it isn't so ;) However, what I didn't get in LOTR, anywhere, was the intensity that Lucy, Kevin Smith or Hudson brought to the screen. I wouldn't say the LOTR actors were less capable, there were some fine actors there, but I think maybe they were overwhelmed by the story. I suppose they may also have been limited by the fact that their opponents were monsters, rather than humans, so they couldn't get the same face-face confrontation as between Lucy, Kevin or Hudson. And I did get the impression that the film was sticking closely to the book (which I haven't read) - or at least, _a_ book. Something to do with the narrative and the references to mythical places (which I'm sure make sense to Tolkien addicts). And a number of scenes that, I'm sure, were masterpieces of description on the printed page but dragged rather on film. I felt it would make a better movie if cut from nearly three hours to a bit over two. Most of Hobbiton, for example, could go (what can I say? I'm just not into 'quaint' ;) A book and a movie are two very different artistic mediums (media?) and the story that is best for one is not best for the other. Anyway, orders of magnitude better than Independence Day. ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 23:36:57 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Debt On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 20:36, KTL wrote: > > > But I think that Xena killing him was supposed to be deliberate and > > > unnecessary--this is part of the rift right? > > > Where bad things happen to > > > cause friction between the grrls. THOUGH as you pointed out a coupla > > > months ago and I had totally never really realized in terms of its > > > impact on the story, Xena takes off to kill him right from the start. > > > > In what way? I mean, what is the impact on the story that you hadn't > > realised? > > Well, just in terms of all the discussions I've read on the Debt and > Xena's intent. From the first time it aired, many, many posters talked > about "Did she mean to kill him?" When hell, Xena says right at the > beginning of the story, a whole number of times that she's off to off "the > Green Dragon". (I love the line she tosses over her shoulder to Gabrielle, > "I'm going on a long journey.") Giggle. And Gabrielle gets all uptight about it, yes. > So why are we all endlessly discussing if she killed him or not? Of > course, we were led to believe that she was going to leave him alive and > just walk away--until he taunted Xena with his glee at Lao Ma's horrible > and humiliating death. Nope, the discussion was whether she _needed_ to kill him or not. Or whether she should have. I would've felt cheated if, after all Ming's provocation, she hadn't offed the pest. And it would have signified that Gabrielle's campaign of moral intimidation had finally succeeded in hobbling Xena. ;) > > (snip) > > I don't think I wrote this--I think the whole thing is cr's: > > > > BUT - hate fits much better with the selection of 'spooks' in BS than > > > > guilt. Ming, Khrafstar, Caesar, Ares, Callisto. She had no reason > > > > to feel guilty about Caesar, Khrafstar or Ares, but she had plenty of > > > > reason to hate all five. And, "Hate is the star". > > > > > > > > Well spotted, thanks! > > > > > > > > cr > > KT: > > > You're welcome! So perhaps in season three, we should say, "Show's > > > called Hate!"? > > > > > > KT > > > > Nah, Xena's still more interesting ;) > > > > cr > > Endlessly. But you know, I wonder now why the heck Hope wasn't in that > set of "things to release your hate over". Certainly both X&G had reasons > to deeply hate Hope. All I can figure is that maybe we were being told > that there's no reason for Gabrielle to regret killing that little demon > and there's no reason for Xena to give up her hatred towards her. Their > actions towards her were appropriate perhaps? Because at this point, > they think she's dead and they've saved the world from Dahok. > > Just seems odd that when the grrls have to release their hatred of some of > their enemies, that Callisto is part of that package and yet Hope isn't. > > KT Maybe a bit of political correctness.... since Xena and Gabs are just 'making up' over their clash in MI, it might be felt tactless to feature Gabs' daughter in the rogues gallery. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 08:33:41 -0500 (EST) From: cjlnh@webtv.net (Cheryl LaScola) Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lord of the rings vs Xena cr: While I understand your take on the LOTR characters, including the irritating Pippin, I would recommend watching all 3 movies before judging. Other than Xena I did not have much interest in the fantasy genre and went to see LOTR mostly because it was set in NZ. Having seen all on the big screen I found "Fellowship" entertaining and like you, not particularly attached to any of the characters, other than mild curiosity about the outcome in the sequels (I never read the books). In The Two Towers that began to change, but I found this second story to be the weakest of the 3 and a bit of a disappointment (sometimes the middle story works out that way since nothing gets resolved). Anyway, the "Return of the King" brought it all home and had me on the edge of my seat wondering if any of them would succumb to evil's will or who would die. I fell in love with all the characters... even Pippin. I even cried. And to me, Sean Astin deserved at least an Academy nomination (along with Ian McKellen). But you will have to judge for yourself, just wait until the last installment before making the call. CJL ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 19:47:13 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season Four (4) In a message dated 4/2/2004 8:50:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: Ife said to Thel: > << I actually like your literal view, but got into a > >>more "metaphysical" one because of KT's use of "space." My gyrations were > >>because I was trying to 'splain myself using her words. > > > > > Oh no you don't, Ife. YOU first used the psychological jargon concept of > "space" in this discussion. I don't use that word that way. IF I did, it > would have been tongue in cheek, with quotes around it. But I don't > believe I brought that concept up at all. You did. >> True. I meant I was trying to explain what I meant in the context of your response. I don't remember the whole thing now, but (as usual) you gave examples that gave a different dimension to what I meant. I truly meant "space" as grounded in a more physical sense -- negotiating how to interact when you're with someone. I think you mentioned "space" in terms of Xena's support of Gabs' ideas and interests, or the fact that they sometimes acted independently of each other. > >>>However, my view is that much of Xena's uncertainty came from her fear > >>>that she was somehow going to be responsible for Gabs getting crucified. > >>> So to me, Gabs was an indirect cause of Xena 'not being herself'. Not > >>>because of > >>>anything she did, just that she was there. Had she been safe and far > >>>away, > >>>Xena would have been less apprehensive. This is why she tried (as KT > >>>said) > >>>to give Gabs away even more than usual in S4. >> > >> > > > Yes. That I did say.>> Whew! > Oh hey--wouldn't THAT have been a fun "homage"? Xena as the wooden, > stiff > puppet trying to become a real person, Gabrielle as Jiminy, Joxer as the > bumbling little Figaro, hmmmm Ares as Gepetto? (Since he's been pulling > Xena's strings for a LOOOOONG time), Callisto as a somewhat crazed Blue > Fairy, all of Xena's bad boy lust stirrers as the naughty gang on Pleasure > Island (and what GREAT scenes we could have with Xena and all those bad > boys, smoking, drinking, gambling and various other carousings--hooooo- > hoooooo!), Salmoneous as the nasty, money grubbing circus master, Minya > and Paulina (from The Plays The Thing) as the fox and cat actors and Alti > as Monstro. (She could make growly innuendos about eating Xena.) Boy, did > they miss the boat on that one or what? >> LOL! I see now why boats play such an important role in your life. I must say, the Jiminy Cricket scenario is one of your more amazing ... trips. I know you don't do fanfic. How about fanfable? Yes! > >Umm. OK. I think this is starting to get obscure. I won't pursue > it. > > > >(rest snipped) > > > >cr > > > Aw c'mon Thel. When has obtuse, er excuse me, obscure ever stopped you and > Ife before? > > A discourse on handicapped drivers anyone? >> Um, KT? BTDT. Keep reading through you old posts. Look for ones with "cruise control." > Hmmmm. I see heck maybe close to a hundred posts with various > subject lines, but apparently about the same thing--"The Unattractive > Xena", "The Eye of the Beholder", The seasons. DARE I dip my toe in > one of those....hmmmmmmm>> Ah, yes. *Rocking* the boat. Another of KT's nautical propensities. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:38:47 -0500 From: Lee Daley Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lord of the rings vs Xena At 08:33 AM 4/3/2004 -0500, CJL wrote: >In The Two Towers that began to change, but I found this second story to >be the weakest of the 3 and a bit of a disappointment (sometimes the >middle story works out that way since nothing gets resolved). That was my impression when I first read the book and when rereading it a few years ago. It does seem to be the fate of "Book II" of any trilogy. It must be somewhat structural. The characters and the situation (indeed the "world" in science fiction and fantasy) have been introduced, but since it can never reach a climax there is always a sense of not being fufilled. Even if it is a good yarn, well crafted and told, it can never reach the heights of "Book III". I was reading one trilogy several years ago, and found that it was impossible to obtain the second book, the first and final were still in print, but the second hadn't been in print for about 10 years. Effectively it had become a "duology" with little impact on the overall experience. LeeD ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #94 *************************************