From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #90 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, March 31 2004 Volume 04 : Number 090 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Eye of the Beholder [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Seasons [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Eye of the Beholder [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Eye of the Beholder [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re; Unattractive Xena [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re; Unattractive Xena [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Eye of the Beholder [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re; Unattractive Xena [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Eye of the Beholder [IfeRae@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:41:58 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Eye of the Beholder On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 05:40, Mark B. wrote: > What was that phrase from some time back.... 'Your mileage may vary'. > > I always thought LL looked great in all the various hats/headdresses > they put on her. (snip for bandwidth) Obviously, tastes vary too! :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 02:10:48 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Seasons In a message dated 3/29/2004 2:50:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > >>The Greek gods (as seen in Herc/XWP) were, after all, as much RenPics' > >>creations as anyone else's, and IMO RenPics could use them as they saw > >>fit. > > > >Again, I meant more in terms of manufacturing emotional tension that didn't > >come from the characters themselves. > > But surely, emotional tension can come from an external threat unrelated to > > the characters? Maybe 'tension' would be more appropriate than 'emotional > tension' there, since I think 'emotional tension' probably can only come > from > the characters.>> I wasn't clear. I also meant emotional tension in some viewers -- e.g., seeing their heroes in peril and fearing the tension that develops between them because of it. I was just watching the first Lord of the Rings movie, and > > most of tension is due to dangers that are external to the characters - was > Peter Jackson or Tolkien being 'exploitative' there? >> If it involved situations where one character being blamed for another's violation, or best friends trying to kill each other's children, or their children killing each other's children and other friends, then I see that as a parallel. The external threats in XWP were used to create very personal emotional responses *between* the characters -- anger and grief that was supposed to make us feel that anger and grief. They didn't just fight the gods. They fought, distrusted and betrayed each other. > >>Nor did I find the Rift at all exploitative - (but then I never felt > Hope > >>was > >>cute, just the spawn of the devil) - and it led to some of the best stuff > >>they'd done. >> > > > >From the objections I saw, it was more about Gabs, not Hope. > > Hmmm. I woulda thought, playing on baby Hope's cuteness would have been > potentially 'exploitative'. I don't think TPTB did so any more than was > unavoidable, though. >> Sure, the cute baby made it more difficult to believe she was a demon. I was sooo happy I didn't have to watch Xena skewer Baby Hope. I could only imagine what must've gone through Gabs' mind at that moment -- through any mother's mind. Under normal circumstances, no one would ever believe a baby could do what Hope was accused of. Even with the Dahak thing, there was a 50-50 chance Xena was wrong. With those odds, what parent wouldn't agonize over making the wrong decision? That was one time I didn't trust Xena's instincts. I was afraid she was simply following her usual inclination to err on the side of making sure the bad guy (or baby) couldn't do any harm. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 02:10:46 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Eye of the Beholder In a message dated 3/29/2004 3:35:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > I reckon Alti the best opponent since Callisto. And you're quite right, > Claire (who IMO is reasonably good looking) managed to project 'ugly' and > menacing. And I think she used her size to advantage in that. > > This may sound weird (where is Sophia -- our actress on the list -- when I need her?), but Claire seemed to use her size by diminishing it. It's like she shrunk herself down in that shamaness costume, adding to the impression of a decaying, boneless hag. With her height, she could do that and still appear formidable without emphasizing it. At first I thought she was trying not to be taller than Lucy (which could be part of it), but it worked to help create the image she wanted. - --Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 02:10:50 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Eye of the Beholder In a message dated 3/29/2004 2:50:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > >No, no, that "do" in Xena eps where she had this poof at the top of her > >head. > > Umm... such as? (I can't call them to mind) > I think she had it in Hooves and Prometheus, maybe Death in Chains. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 02:10:50 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re; Unattractive Xena In a message dated 3/29/2004 2:50:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: cheryl said: > >I thought Kevin Smith was handsom as Ares and rather ordinary looking as > >Hercules's brother was that because Herc's brother was boring? > > Well, he was written as a much stronger character as Ares. And in the looks > > department, I think the beard helped. As Iphicles he always looked rather > weak. But also, as Ares, much of the attraction was in his delivery of his > > lines - he has a very interesting delivery, and that (I'm sure) makes him > seem even more attractive. >> Um, does *acting* come in here anywhere? Kevin in "Stranger in A Strange World" looked more simpy than handsome to me. For Ares, I felt he pulled out all the stops, in terms of projecting a swaggering physical attractiveness to match the characteristics that Xena found attractive in him as the god of war. Seduction. Sure, Kevin was a good looking guy, but he managed to make Ares worth swooning over. - -- Ife > > >Callisto > >was certainly attractive but I never forgave her character her crimes > >because she was good looking - whatever sympathy I had for her came because > >I understoood that her pain was destroying her. > > Callisto is *very* photogenic, and striking (the dark eyebrows and the > blonde > hair see to that), but IMO not all that conventionally beautiful. In the > scenes with her and Xena, the visual contrast of the two is amazing. > Aside from that, though, Hudson's delivery is what makes the difference - > she > gives the appearance of being dangerous, of having a lot of energy inside. > > Note the contrast with Angel Callisto - who probably looks more beautiful in > > a photo, but the energy is gone, the interest is gone, she looks good but > only in a superficial way, not interesting. > > >Valasca was beautiful but > >I don't think she garnered much sympathy from the audience. > > I don't find her beautiful - certainly not pretty. Possibly a cold sort of > > beauty, but then she was a very cold character. She had a few good lines, > and ofter several viewings of ANE I now quite like her as a character. > > >I actually > >don't think liking Xena or forgiving her has anything at all to do with > >beautism - I think we just like Xena. > >CherylA > > Well said! ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:55:55 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re; Unattractive Xena On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:10, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/29/2004 2:50:10 AM Pacific Standard Time, > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > cheryl said: > > >I thought Kevin Smith was handsom as Ares and rather ordinary looking as > > >Hercules's brother was that because Herc's brother was boring? > > > > Well, he was written as a much stronger character as Ares. And in the > > looks > > department, I think the beard helped. As Iphicles he always looked > > rather weak. But also, as Ares, much of the attraction was in his > > delivery of his > > lines - he has a very interesting delivery, and that (I'm sure) makes him > > seem even more attractive. >> > > Um, does *acting* come in here anywhere? Kevin in "Stranger in A Strange > World" looked more simpy than handsome to me. For Ares, I felt he pulled > out all the stops, in terms of projecting a swaggering physical > attractiveness to match the characteristics that Xena found attractive in > him as the god of war. Seduction. Sure, Kevin was a good looking guy, but > he managed to make Ares worth swooning over. > > -- Ife Well, I always thought 'delivery' had a lot to do with acting ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:59:31 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Eye of the Beholder On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:10, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/29/2004 3:35:27 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > I reckon Alti the best opponent since Callisto. And you're quite right, > > Claire (who IMO is reasonably good looking) managed to project 'ugly' and > > menacing. And I think she used her size to advantage in that. > > This may sound weird (where is Sophia -- our actress on the list -- when I > need her?), but Claire seemed to use her size by diminishing it. It's like > she shrunk herself down in that shamaness costume, adding to the impression > of a decaying, boneless hag. With her height, she could do that and still > appear formidable without emphasizing it. At first I thought she was > trying not to be taller than Lucy (which could be part of it), but it > worked to help create the image she wanted. > > --Ife Hmm, let's see, I think Claire's size was apparent without being obtrusive, if that doesn't sound too obscure ;) I'm agreeing with you, actually - I just have to visualise how a shorter actress would have looked trying to do the same thing. And it wouldn't have had quite the same formidableness (OK, that's an awful word I just made up - guilty :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:45:42 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re; Unattractive Xena In a message dated 3/30/2004 1:13:49 AM Pacific Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > >Um, does *acting* come in here anywhere? Kevin in "Stranger in A Strange > >World" looked more simpy than handsome to me. For Ares, I felt he pulled > >out all the stops, in terms of projecting a swaggering physical > >attractiveness to match the characteristics that Xena found attractive in > >him as the god of war. Seduction. Sure, Kevin was a good looking guy, but > >he managed to make Ares worth swooning over. > > > >-- Ife > > Well, I always thought 'delivery' had a lot to do with acting ;) > True. I thought we were focusing on appearance. Maybe I'm overly sensitive to LL's and KS's looks leading to underestimations of their ability to be chameleons -- to project a range of "looks" because of their talent. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:45:43 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Eye of the Beholder In a message dated 3/30/2004 1:13:48 AM Pacific Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > >This may sound weird (where is Sophia -- our actress on the list -- when I > >need her?), but Claire seemed to use her size by diminishing it. It's like > >she shrunk herself down in that shamaness costume, adding to the impression > >of a decaying, boneless hag. With her height, she could do that and still > >appear formidable without emphasizing it. At first I thought she was > >trying not to be taller than Lucy (which could be part of it), but it > >worked to help create the image she wanted. > > > >--Ife > > Hmm, let's see, I think Claire's size was apparent without being > obtrusive, if that doesn't sound too obscure ;) > Actually, that's what I was tryng to get at. << I'm agreeing with you, actually - I just have to visualise how a shorter actress would have looked trying to do the same thing. And it wouldn't have had quite the same formidableness (OK, that's an awful word I just made up - guilty :) >> 'Sokay. Works for me. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #90 *************************************