From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #81 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, March 22 2004 Volume 04 : Number 081 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] OT: Testing Send. Just Ignore! ["Daniel T. Miller" ] [chakram-refugees] xena sword [Lilli Sprintz ] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Seasons [was: Ratings] ["Jackie M. Young" Subject: [chakram-refugees] OT: Testing Send. Just Ignore! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 15:02:40 -0500 (EST) From: Sarah Anne Packard Subject: [chakram-refugees] "Double Dare"! I just saw the documentary "Double Dare" (at the Ann Arbor Film Festival here in Michigan), and I have to recommend it highly to everyone here...not only because it's a fabulous film about a subject that doesn't get a lot of attention (stuntwomen!), but because it has TONS of Xena stuff. :) You see, it's about 2 stuntwomen in particular - Zoe Bell (Lucy's double from Xena) and Jeannie Epper (Lynda Carter's double for Wonder Woman)...and it follows the two over a couple of years of work and life. Anyway, they show LOTS of Zoe working on the set of Xena, Lucy does some commentary and stuff! I even recognized specific eps they were filming (including "A Friend In Need"), heh heh. :) And, they follow Zoe as she goes to the big Xena con in Pasadena, 2001! They even show many, many fans (people in the audience of the screening were kinda giggling at the whole convention part, seeing the fans in costume and all; meanwhile I was turning to my sister and pointing to people and saying, "I know him! I know her! And her too!" Lol...all the convention regulars) and Zoe interacting with fans, giving autographs and everything. Plus, Zoe apparently was at one point going to be Vicky Pratt's double on "Mutant X", so they show her going to Vicky's house and interacting with Vicky and T.J. Scott! (She didn't get the job though. :( ) Anyway, Zoe comes off as a real doll, I wish I coulda gone to that con (I almost did!) and met her! Sharon, if you're reading this - please consider getting Zoe for another Burbank con please?! :) Zoe's career is really taking off too, and the film captures that - it shows her auditioning for and then landing the job of Uma Thurman's double for the Quentin Tarantino flick "Kill Bill"! Does anyone know what she (Zoe) is up to now?? -Sarah, aka the abbagirl- P.S. This was the first time this film has been screened here in Michigan; I think it's mainly doing festivals and stuff right now, it probably has been released some places though...y'all must go see it!! :) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:16:13 -0800 (PST) From: "Daniel T. Miller" Subject: [chakram-refugees] OT: Testing send again. Sorry. Okay if you are still reading-- the VH1 documentery narrated by Lucy is on again at 3PM CST. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:16:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Daniel T. Miller" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Tiny Ngila quote from backstage groups interview at the Oscars. What a sweetie! :~) I kept meaning to post this--least I did before it was April! March 1 Chicago Tribune Section 5 (Tempo section )Page 2 *********************************** Backstage - Diamonds, free speech and Janet By Mark Caro Tribune movie reporter" ************************************* ***************************** 8:33 p.m. "Lord of the Rings" costume design winner Ngila Dickson bemoans the movies's lack of acting nominations: "I find that critically sad because those performances are extraordinary." *********************** __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:53:08 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Forgiving Xena I thought about this topic for a while. I personally don't think the viewers forgive Xena because she is beautiful. I think we forgive her because we admire her honesty and her efforts to make up for her actions. I think in many ways the viewer feels sorry for her. She is a woman haunted by her past but she never makes excuses for that past. She shoulders responsibility for her all her actions and she never asks for forgiveness for herself. This makes her very sympathetic - we want her to be forgiven and therefore we step into the role that Gabrielle often plays - her defender. We forgive her because we know she suffers for her crimes. We also forgive because we understand that she driven by demons she often can't control. For example in The Bitter Suit - we witness her commit a brutal act and although we may be horrified by it, we understand that it is an act that Xena is driven to by her own nature. We also understand the if she was in her right mind she would never have done this. We also know that once she regains her sanity she will be devastated by what she has done. We forgive because that is how we participate in the story of Xena. We become vested in Xena's fate. We can act the part of pardoner and we can absolve Xena. We participate in a very personal level in the story and that is why we are so attracted to this story. We feel in an odd way that Xena needs our understanding and forgiveness. As for peopel being more helpful to beautiful people that less attractive people. I actually don't buy that. I don't really care how many experiments people do. There many viables in why and when people will help people in trouble. It has been shown that when people are in a crowd they are less likely to render assistance to someone than when they are alone. The looks of a person may indicated whether some one helps another but visual signals have many meanings which interpret in many ways. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:21:57 -0600 From: Lilli Sprintz Subject: [chakram-refugees] xena sword friday night i was fortunate enough to go to a neighborhood performance involving several friends of mine, who are exploring their european cultural heritage and spirituality. as such, they were doing a play piece on the "four-fold goddess freyja," a norse goddess. the piece was wonderful. they were calling "directions", and so did four sections about four different aspects of the goddess. the second aspect, to the north, was the warrior aspect. all the women had swords, and one woman in particular was twirling her sword in a very particular way i used to watch xena do in the show. but what was also interesting is that I, all the way in a back row quite removed from the front, noticed that the sword looked VERY like the kind xena used to use. so at the end of the performance i went up to her and asked her about it. and sure enough, she said it was a xena replica sword which her former partner had loaned her for the performance, and promptly and quickly left with as soon as the performance was over! Oh Well. Lilli ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:18:15 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Seasons [was: Ratings] On Mon, 1 Mar 2004, cr wrote: > On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:11, Jackie M. Young wrote: > > > Also, from S3 on, it became more exploitative, IMO. Obviously, everything > > had to expand to keep viewer interest, so TPTB made everything bigger and > > more (melo)dramatic. But I felt the kernel of what was XWP remained the > > same. > > 'Exploitative' is _definitely_ a matter of personal judgement, I think. I > didn't feel it was more so later in the series. Some of the plot lines > were more melodramatic, yes, that's something that's almost forced on the > producers of a long-running series. > > But more exploitative? More so than Xena shacking up with Iolaus and the > Herc in the trilogy, for example? - --Sure, I thought the Gab-having-a-demon-baby plot was manipulative and exploitative. And the X-fighting-all-the-gods-in-the-world-even-those-not-from-her-land exploitative. Interesting, but exploitative. > > Granted, a fight scene like in The Way (at the end) doesn't quite compare > > in goriness with what we saw earlier. But something like the fight with > > the harpies in Mortal Beloved is similar. And frankly, I can do without > > the gore and just go for the action. ;P > > Doesn't it? I found the fight in The Way more shocking than any previous > fight. Xena actually getting bits cut off, made me feel almost queasy. > The fight with the harpies in Mortal Beloved isn't in the same class. - --I meant it in the opposite way, so misstated it. The Way end fight was way more gory than the Mortal Beloved fight, obviously, but what I meant was that I felt all that gore wasn't necessary to the plot. Hence, more "exploitation". ;P > > I don't get that feeling from S3 on.....;( > > Maybe just because it wasn't new? > > > ADITL was a case in point - full of sarcastic comments, bickering and > backstabbing. I can just imagine the reaction if that had aired for the > first time in S4/S5. - --Yeah, those actions or mannerisms weren't new in S3, so they weren't *delivered* by the actors as new or fresh. If it were just a matter of "not being new", I'd get bored watching S1/S2 eps, which I don't. You forget that ADITL was *delivered* with all the spunkiness and freshness of S2. Actors have to _believe_ in the currency of their character (i.e., be "in the moment") in order to deliver it that way to the audience. ADITL was delivered with a certain naivety still evident in the X/G relationship. I don't believe LL or ROC could've done ADITL with the same attitude in their "later years".......but that's JMO. ;) - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 18:37:02 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Seasons [was: Ratings] On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, cr wrote: > On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:25, Jackie M. Young wrote: > > > The first interracial locked-lips kiss in Mortal Beloved (ST:TOS doesn't > > count because the critics had Shatner and Nichols turn away from the > > camera)?? > > So what? That didn't even register with me. Was that supposed to be a big > deal or something? It just seemed perfectly ordinary to me. - --The Shatner/Nichols kiss is widely documented in ST circles as TV history-making because it caused so much controversy in the still-paranoid, race-conscious US. But, the producers admitted to "fudging" it a bit because they turned away from the camera and the kiss was closed-mouth (as most kisses were in the '60s). Since XWP went far beyond that, I believe it was also "history-making". > And what's this busines with 'first this' and 'first that'. Kinda > irrelevant, IMO. You could claim ITADITH as the 'first season-ender' but so > what? Rather than the 'first' of something, I'd rather watch the 'best' > example of whatever-it-is. - --To many people, setting a record or thinking first of an idea is important. If it's not important to you, then bully for you. But I think that's why so many of us were drawn to XWP in the first place. It was the first of its kind and was ground-breaking in its ideas and execution (on TV). That's important to me, and probably to others. So when a particular ep is the "first-of", I take note of that. ;P > > The first black Helen in Beware Greeks, and the first bamboo "horse", > > replete with soldiers inside, that I've ever seen?? > > Is Galyn Gorg 'black'? That never registered with me either. I do rather > like her as Helen, btw. And I quite like the ep. But it's still only in > the 'quite like' category, not in the 'don't miss'. Anyway, so far as > 'black' characters go, IMO the prize has to go to Gina (who is unmistakeably > 'black') as Cleo in King of Assassins. - --To a US audience, I believe Galyn Gorg would be considered black. And to cast a black person in an historical role like that would be, umm, "historical", IMO. I love GTorres to death, but her role in Cleo in Assassins was too short to make an impression, IMO. > As for the ladder fight, that's one of those that turns me off due to its > physical impossibility. It started out promisingly, but you just cannot > balance on a ladder like that. If you move further from the pivot, it not - --Well, we all have our pet areas, Thel, and obviously engineering is yours. It's not mine, and this _is_ an action/fantasy show, so I just accepted that as part of the "fantasy". OTOH, if we talk about misrepresentation of certain races on TV, then I'll start to object (as you well know). ;) So, it all depends on our particular viewpoint....... > Hmmm. I like those episode arcs. But I also like good single eps. Not > sure what you mean by 'punchline' though. But anyway, there were just as > many good endings in later seasons as in S1/S2. - --The earlier eps had a definite "ending" or moral. The later arc eps were more of just a "continution" of the journey. I tend to like my eps to be neater and more tied up at the end. Helps me sleep at night. ;) - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 19:06:51 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Eye of the Beholder On Sat, 20 Mar 2004, cr wrote: > On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:03, Jackie M. Young wrote: > > > Without much deviance, strangers invariably were helpful to the > > good-looking pair, but uncaring or unhelpful towards the ugly- or > > plain-looking pair. People would go out of their way to give directions, > > or help pick up lost papers or lend money, etc. to the beautiful people, > > but totally ignore the ugly ones. > > Yes, but we're not talking about a stranger, we're talking about a character > we 'know'. - --Ah, but you're begging the question, Thel. ;P Do we forgive her because she's beautiful and attractive in the first place, or do we forgive her because we like her upstanding character qualities (which we only learn about _very slowly_ over the course of many eps)? And just *why* are we attracted to her to begin with? Part of it, inexorably, would be her physical appearance. A good example of this was in a ST:TOS ep, in which Chris Pike, the original Enterprise captain, was hijacked to a planet of illusionists by Spock. Normally, Chris Pike is a fairly handsome guy. But it turns out that long ago, after he was Enterprise captain, he got into a catastrophic accident that left him paralyzed and disfigured. Spock was bringing him back to this planet so he could retain his "illusion" of beauty (and to get it on with a female on that planet in a similar predicament). During that ep (Menagerie), I kept thinking to myself that I felt sorry for Chris and that I couldn't stand to see him all disfigured. I doubt that I could've gone through *6 seasons* of seeing him in that shape, much less being the star of the show! Yet we were shown in flashbacks what an upstanding guy he was, etc., etc. Would we have put up with a disfigured or ugly Xena, regardles of how heroic or talented or insightful she was, for *6 seasons*?? I highly doubt it. > > --Per above, I'd disagree. A *large* part of Xena's attraction is that > > LL's stunningly beautiful. And strong, and brave, and has the coolest > > fight moves. But (and I hate to admit to going on looks alone) I think it > > would be hard to make a case for her being as popular as she is if she > > were plain-looking or ugly. > > Well, LL is not always stunningly beautiful. It depends a lot on camera > angle and even hairstyle. (IMO). As Lyla, in the Herc eps, she looked > good enough to eat. She also looked pretty good as Xena - even though she > was a villain much of the time. But in early Xena (IMO) they often made her > look rather plain. - --Again, Thel, you pick at nits and miss the point. ;P (BTW, I actually liked her more in the S1/S2 eps, because they put much less make-up on her, so she looked more "natural". In the later seasons, she _obviously_ was made up.) LL is, basically, stunningly beautiful, regardless if she's wearing a cloth sack or Kali demon make-up. I don't believe the producers would've cast her to begin with if she weren't attractive (one of whom is currently her husband, so that kinda *clinches the theory*, eh?!). How do you separate out her innate beauty from her character's attractiveness?? > IMO, Xena's fascination was due at least as much to LL's acting ability as to > her looks, maybe more. - --Although I highly respect LL's skills, I don't believe she was that great of an actress at that time to be cast only based on her skills, IMO. A good example of this would be to watch her acting in the HTLJ Trilogy. Very rough. Yet it was good enough to get her a series. But only because 5 others weren't available. > But anyway, coming back to the original question - I'm sure that, having > accepted Xena as our 'hero', we'd be prepared to forgive her almost anything > - even looking ugly ;) - --Do you *really* believe that, Thel?!? Could you *honestly* put up with a hero looking like X did in Sickness and Hell for *6 seasons*?!? Methinks thou doth protest too much.....;=P Just MO, - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * "Feel the fear and do it anyway." --Lucy Lawless, * * Evening Post, 7/4/98 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 00:14:05 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] "Double Dare"! In a message dated 3/21/2004 12:04:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, abbagirl@cyberspace.org writes: > Sharon, if you're reading this - please consider getting Zoe for another > Burbank con please?! :) Zoe's career is really taking off too, and the > film captures that Heck, I'd love to have something about Zoe in the newsletter. Maybe there was an interview a long time ago, but an updated one would be nice. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #81 *************************************