From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #73 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, March 13 2004 Volume 04 : Number 073 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Warrior Women [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Warrior Women [Sekhmet209@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Re: Channeling Xena spiritually [Wizdym4@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] whalerider and legacy [Lilli Sprintz ] [chakram-refugees] The Debt, Friend in Need, and a fish called Wanda [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] GTorres on CSI 3/11/04 [Sarah Anne Packard Here's a thought. If any of you have any connections with a school or > university, you may want to share the information about the Warrior Women > documentary with the Womens' Studies Department or maybe the History > Department. > > Are you thinking maybe these schools can obtain good copies for showing? Also, I wonder if Oxygen, Lifetime or some other station could buy the rights. Anybody know how all that works? Another option might be writing to potentially sympathetic media folks who might inquire of the US Discovery folks why they won't be showing such a well-received series. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 01:01:28 EST From: Sekhmet209@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Warrior Women In a message dated 3/12/04 12:41:30 AM, IfeRae@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 3/11/2004 6:54:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, >xwpacolyte@comcast.net writes: > >> Here's a thought. If any of you have any connections with a school or >> university, you may want to share the information about the Warrior Women >> documentary with the Womens' Studies Department or maybe the History >> Department. >> >> > >Are you thinking maybe these schools can obtain good copies for showing? > >Also, I wonder if Oxygen, Lifetime or some other station could buy the >rights. >Anybody know how all that works? Another option might be writing to >potentially sympathetic media folks who might inquire of the US Discovery >folks why they >won't be showing such a well-received series. Or how about the History Channel? They just ran a multipart series on different batches of barbarians a few weeks ago, so one would think "Warrior Women" would be right up their alley. - --Sekhmet ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 02:38:06 EST From: Wizdym4@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Channeling Xena spiritually In a message dated 3/12/2004 12:24:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org writes: smoe.org Mirrordrum said, about "channeling" xena, "but the wondrous thing is that "channeling xena" isn't just about invoking the character in a tv show. it's about calling up in ourselves what is there already even when we think we're too tired or scared or hurt too badly to take another breath, let alone another step." and Lilly said," Lucy Lawless now gets to draw on this wonderful energy which she helped to create several years ago",... referring to Lucy's statement about "channelling Xena". Yes! It's this "Xena energy or frequency. that is so especially fascinating to us ""Hard-core Nutballs", assuming that I'm not alone. The special beautful, strong, wise woman, played by Lucy, is an archetype worthy of a Goddess. I just found a web page of someone talking about the Goddess Athena. I'm going to paste four paragraphs from that page http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/1736/ because it so well describes my sentiments about Xena. Whereas he has a picture of Athena on his wall, I got a big beautiful picture of Xena looking back at me to inspire me. However we have the advantage of being able to relate to this archetype as vital and technicolor as Xena. And she's eternal on our dvds../;) Here are those four paragraphs: <<"How did I get back to the Greeks, their gods and - most importantly- to Athena? I think it all started when I was reading Joseph Campbell more particularly his book, The Hero with a Thousand Faces. That book explained my fascination with myths and also reminded me of Athena; there was a picture of her standing by Iason who emerges from the jaws of a dragon. It was a magical moment of understanding something which I had always known. I dug up my old schoolbooks and found the Iliad and the Odyssey, I bought more books, I payed a visit to all the glorious monuments and museums of my country. I had reconnected with the Hellenic spirit and this time it was for good. I had long ago realized that religion doesn't speak about actual entities outside ourselves. Many of you won't accept this, but I do. The beautiful gods are symbols rooted on the mind of human beings, they represent spiritual entities in our psyche. They are real, but they are inside us not outside. This realization led me to undertake a conscious effort to create a religion, or a spirituality that was based on myself and not enforced by others. And what would be a better place to start than the gods and heroes I had always admired and honored, from the first time I'd heard of them. And now to Athena. Why do I like her so much? Well, she represents wisdom which is something I've always sought. She represents beauty and her statues and sculptures are filled with her beauty and the harmony of her untroubled feautures. She is also a woman of action, a goddess of war and initiative; I would not have my goddess as a passive stay-at-home. She is a goddess who stands by the heroes she chooses: Perseus, Herakles, Theseus, Odysseus, Diomedes, Akhilleus have all enjoyed the comforts of her protection. She incites men to heroic deeds; that is my life ambition, to act like a hero, to do great things. So Athena is naturally my most beloved goddess. All this is, of course, attempts of my brain to rationalize my closeness with Athena. I am fortunate enough to live in an apartment which faces the Acropolis. I sit looking at the Parthenon and I instantly feel calm, and self-complete. I look at the picture of Athena on my wall, the one they call the Mourning Athena and cannot take my eyes off her. They say that this sculpture was next to a tomb of Athenian cavalry-men who died in the Peloponesian war. Looking at her I feel the comfort she must have given to the families of the deceased who visited that tomb. I understand, that under her shield, all tears are dried. I hope that she will always be with me and I pray that she will be with you too.">> So, this Xena channel -archetype, portrayed by Lucy, may be thought of as a frame of mind, but it's all the more fun/fulfilling to think of her as a spirit guide/friend, maybe even as the Goddess within ...providing strength, reassurance, insights, and inspiration. God/dess Inspire!....>>>Carmon ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 01:44:08 -0600 From: Lilli Sprintz Subject: [chakram-refugees] whalerider and legacy He looked so familiar. when i saw whalerider several weeks ago, i didn't realize until tonight that Rawiri Paratene, who played Koro, Pai's grandfather, was the same actor who played Tazere, Korah's father in the episode "Legacy." Just a lightbulb tonight realizing it, and remembering what I neglected to say last week, when I talked about Whalerider, that all the actors in that film were so good. Vicky Haughton, who played Pai's grandmother, in Whalerider, was also so powerful, especially in the scene near the end where she believe Pai has drowned. Does anyone know what other movies these two actors played in? goodnight. Lilli ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:24:58 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: [chakram-refugees] GTorres on CSI 3/11/04 Just saw Gina Torres on CSI on CBS tonight, 3/11/04! I think I remember reading something about her being on one of their eps, but I didn't plan on watching just to see her, so was pleasantly surprised when I tuned in. ;) She played (I think) a lawyer representing a female prison inmate involved in the murder of her fellow inmate. Man, is she *tall*! When they showed her in profile next to Marge Helkinberger (sp?), she was a full foot taller! Of course, she did a *great* job as usual.....;) Just FYI, - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:20:47 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 4 dvd extras! :) On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 03:58, Sarah Anne Packard wrote: > I'm surprised no-one posted this here before, it's a list of Season 4 dvd > extras that Sharon Delaney was involved in, posted to the fan club site > (http://www.creationent.com/outback/fanclubs/xena456dvds.html): > > Xena Season 4: > Adventures In The Sin Trade 1 and 2 -- interviews with RJ Stewart & Eric > Gruendemann, Lucy & Renee & Rob Tapert (Rest snipped) Okay, the interviews with the directors are good.... what do I mean 'good', I mean great! But, errm, not that I want to sound demanding and ungrateful or anything, but - - Why not a Commentary??? The commentary for The Debt that I was just watching, with LL and RT, was awesome, it would be sooo good to have a similar one for Sin Trade. AND, in The Debt commentary, Lucy said that ep (Debt) and Sin Trades were the eps she was proudest of (or something like that). So if Lucy thinks ST is some of her best work, she really really should be sat down in front of a TV to talk about it, no? It seems such a waste to let the opportunity slip past... Sharon, if the decisions haven't been set in stone yet, and if you're listening, this is a shameless attempt to influence the course of events.... cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:41:35 +1300 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] The Debt, Friend in Need, and a fish called Wanda This is kinda rambling and partly blatantly OT but jump in anybody... I was just watching the video commentary for The Debt (awesome episode), and I was amused to hear Rob (if I heard him aright) say that almost nobody recognised the Chinese head that Xena planted on a spike as the soldier last seen running away. As I recall there was quite some discussion on the lists about that very point. Lucy spoke of her 'Harrison Ford' moment when the Chinese samurai was winding up to takeoff revs with his swords and Xena just chackies him - when I first saw that I wondered if TPTB intentionally stole that from Raiders of the Lost Ark. Now we know... Back to Xena's wall of heads, Rob commented that the studio was very nervous about whether they could actually get away with the hero doing that on TV. But as usual they did anyway.... Which leads me to Friend in Need and Rob's comment that they were very nervous about the reaction to a teenager (Akemi) committing ritual suicide on screen. But, as Rob noted, it was Xena's head coming off that caused the fuss... it must sometimes be difficult for producers to know just what features audiences will fixate on. Which leads me to A Fish Called Wanda. I was listening to the audio commentary by John Cleese, who directed, and some of his comments were quite illuminating on the entirely illogical reactions of audiences. (A tiny bit of the plot - Ken (Michael Palin), an animal-loving tropical fish owner, is mixed up in a robbery and trying to dispose of an old lady who witnessed same by 'accident'. He misses twice, but scores one of the old lady's three little terriers each time, the third time he drops a huge block of concrete which lands on terrier #3 and the old lady promptly dies of a heart attack. The psychotic Otto (Kevin Kline) tries to make Ken tell where the loot is by stuffing chips (french fries) up Ken's nostrils and swallowing some of Ken's fish. Ken gets his revenge by running over Otto with a road roller). Sound horrific? Particularly the murderer Ken? As John Cleese said, everybody liked Ken. They deliberately made the old lady thoroughly bad-tempered the first time the audience saw her, so nobody minded when Ken tried to kill her. The old ten-ton-weight stunt was funny in concept and they didn't dwell on the dead old lady or the flat terrier so it still seemed funny. Audiences were far more concerned for Ken's health when he had chips stuck up his nose, but what upset them most was not Ken killing the old lady's terriers by accident, or Otto and the old lady on purpose, but the nasty Otto swallowing a couple of tropical fish. All of this is decidely illogical and blatantly unjust, but actually, I find it surprisingly understandable. Just as we're prepared to forgive Xena, even Evil Xena, almost any crime (and if we won't, what are we doing on this list? :) I wonder if sometimes it wasn't the despair of TPTB - "okay, let's have Evil Xena do something really horrific and unpardonable". "They won't care, they'll still forgive her". cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 06:41:27 -0500 (EST) From: Sarah Anne Packard Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] GTorres on CSI 3/11/04 > Just saw Gina Torres on CSI on CBS tonight, 3/11/04! I think I remember > reading something about her being on one of their eps, but I didn't plan Yeah, cuz I posted here about it... :) > > She played (I think) a lawyer representing a female prison inmate involved > in the murder of her fellow inmate. Actually, she played a warden at the women's prison. And did an excellent job as always! I thought she was gonna turn out to be the killer, lol... -Sarah- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:11:39 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Channeling Xena spiritually In a message dated 3/12/2004 1:39:36 AM Central Standard Time, Wizdym4@aol.com writes: > I just found a web page of someone talking about the Goddess Athena. I'm > going to paste four paragraphs from that page > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/1736/ because it so well describes > my sentiments about Xena. You know, one of my regrets is that Athena was introduced at a point when she was a villain. Mind you, I loved Ares and what Kevin did with the character. It brought some dimensions that we wouldn't have had with Athena. Still, given the extent to which Xena and the Amazons (especially with the Gabs connection) represented Athena's qualities, I would've liked seeing interplay between Athena and Xena. Plus, Paris Jefferson ranked up there with Hudson in my appreciation for what she did with her character. I could just imagine Athena and Ares arguing about Xena's loyalties, vying for Xena's allegiance, or Xena 'splaining to Athena why she didn't cotton to gods no matter how much she respected them. But I guess that would've complicated things too much, which TPTB saved for later seasons. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:11:36 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Debt, Friend in Need, and a fish called Wanda In a message dated 3/12/2004 5:50:47 AM Central Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > Audiences were far more concerned for Ken's health when he had chips > stuck up his nose, but what upset them most was not Ken killing the old > lady's terriers by accident, or Otto and the old lady on purpose, but the > nasty Otto swallowing a couple of tropical fish. All of this is decidely > illogical and blatantly unjust, but actually, I find it surprisingly > understandable. Just as we're prepared to forgive Xena, even Evil Xena, > almost any crime (and if we won't, what are we doing on this list? :) > I wonder if sometimes it wasn't the despair of TPTB - "okay, let's have Evil > > Xena do something really horrific and unpardonable". "They won't care, > they'll still forgive her". > It's amazing, isn't it? I think of how they played with the whole "never killed women and children" thing -- the implication being that she had some honor when it came to picking on those who could fight back. So we can forgive the Amazon massacre because they were warriors. We can forgive her abusing and trying to kill Baby T'ien because she does leave him alive. Yet we see the consequences of her destruction of the Amazon leaders and giving T'ien an unforgettable lesson in how to rule. We see that an innocent woman Xena maybe didn't intend to die was still nearly eaten by crabs and turned into a hard-hearted prison warden. We learn that even the "accidental" burning of Callisto's village killed innocents and created long-term destructiveness in the form of Psycho Babe. I wonder if it's Xena's dedication to "cleaning up" her messes that allowed us to forgive her. If she'd dedicated herself to good present and future acts, would we feel the same way about her if she'd apologized for her past, but not taken responsibility for the consequences? Would we have been as forgiving if we'd learned about some of her excesses earlier on, before she'd captured our hearts as someone trying to make amends? TPTB certainly pushed the envelope by making her crimes worse than initially suggested. The irony is the relatively little thought they gave to the Gabdrag -- a present-day deed done to a loved one, which perhaps alienated more fans than anything Xena did in her evil days. TPTB regretted the few extra seconds they gave that scene, but I'm not sure they ever realized the ultimate weight it could carry vs. all the atrocities against humanity in general that they spent time worrying about. There are those who still have the Gabdrag seared into their brains, yet remain fans of the show. I wonder how that impacted their view of Xena. If they never really watched because of Xena herself, did that scene make the character worse or more worth dismissing? Did they ever really forgive Xena? If they did, did they simply separate that scene from their appreciation of other aspects? Did they forgive her because of her state of mind and later regret? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:35:28 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Debt, Friend in Need, and a fish called Wanda On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:11, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/12/2004 5:50:47 AM Central Standard Time, > > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > Audiences were far more concerned for Ken's health when he had chips > > stuck up his nose, but what upset them most was not Ken killing the old > > lady's terriers by accident, or Otto and the old lady on purpose, but the > > nasty Otto swallowing a couple of tropical fish. All of this is > > decidely illogical and blatantly unjust, but actually, I find it > > surprisingly understandable. Just as we're prepared to forgive Xena, > > even Evil Xena, almost any crime (and if we won't, what are we doing on > > this list? :) I wonder if sometimes it wasn't the despair of TPTB - > > "okay, let's have Evil > > > > Xena do something really horrific and unpardonable". "They won't care, > > they'll still forgive her". > > It's amazing, isn't it? I think of how they played with the whole "never > killed women and children" thing -- the implication being that she had some > honor when it came to picking on those who could fight back. So we can > forgive the Amazon massacre because they were warriors. We can forgive her > abusing and trying to kill Baby T'ien because she does leave him alive. > Yet we see the consequences of her destruction of the Amazon leaders and > giving T'ien an unforgettable lesson in how to rule. We see that an > innocent woman Xena maybe didn't intend to die was still nearly eaten by > crabs and turned into a hard-hearted prison warden. We learn that even the > "accidental" burning of Callisto's village killed innocents and created > long-term destructiveness in the form of Psycho Babe. Oh yes, but without that we'd never have had the Goddess Callisto, and what a loss to the world of TV fantasy that would have been > I wonder if it's Xena's dedication to "cleaning up" her messes that allowed > us to forgive her. If she'd dedicated herself to good present and future > acts, would we feel the same way about her if she'd apologized for her > past, but not taken responsibility for the consequences? Would we have > been as forgiving if we'd learned about some of her excesses earlier on, > before she'd captured our hearts as someone trying to make amends? TPTB > certainly pushed the envelope by making her crimes worse than initially > suggested. I think, it's simply first impressions. We were all fans of Xena long before 99% of this bad stuff started to come out, so by the time it did, we were all willing to make enormous allowances for her. It's a bit like "my country right or wrong" - she was our hero and we didn't care what she did. The fact she was dedicated to cleaning up her messes undoubtedly helped to give us a rationale for excusing her past, but it wouldn't have been of any use if we hadn't wanted an excuse to do so. Of course, when she first appeared in Herc, she was all bad. But stylish with it. I don't think anyone would have been a fanatical fan of Xena's after 'Warrior Princess', but I think most would have rated her a very interesting viallain - like Callisto, after her first ep. > The irony is the relatively little thought they gave to the Gabdrag -- a > present-day deed done to a loved one, which perhaps alienated more fans > than anything Xena did in her evil days. TPTB regretted the few extra > seconds they gave that scene, but I'm not sure they ever realized the > ultimate weight it could carry vs. all the atrocities against humanity in > general that they spent time worrying about. Yep, like Otto swallowing Ken's fish. ;) > There are those who still have the Gabdrag seared into their brains, yet > remain fans of the show. I wonder how that impacted their view of Xena. > If they never really watched because of Xena herself, did that scene make > the character worse or more worth dismissing? Did they ever really > forgive Xena? If they did, did they simply separate that scene from their > appreciation of other aspects? Did they forgive her because of her state > of mind and later regret? > > -- Ife Well now, one has also to remember that Gabrielle had just indirectly caused the death of Solan. So Xena certainly had a reason for her actions. (Whether the reason was adequate is a whole other debate). I'm certainly not the person to answer your question though, since I'm not a Gabfan. I'm a Xenafan and, callous though this may sound, I got used to terrible things happening to my hero. Like Caesar crucifying her. I don't *want* these things to happen to her, I'm not some sort of masochist-by-proxy, but I tend to regard them as occupational hazards for an action hero. When she's being hurt, I want her to revive or escape and start beating the opposition up. (Which she regularly does of course). So, by extension, I regard the Gabdrag as just one of those things that are liable to happen to one if one hangs around an action hero long enough. Maybe a Gabfan can answer that, but I know that there are differences of opinion among Gabfans about it too. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 16:40:03 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Channeling Xena spiritually On Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:11, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/12/2004 1:39:36 AM Central Standard Time, > > Wizdym4@aol.com writes: > > I just found a web page of someone talking about the Goddess Athena. I'm > > going to paste four paragraphs from that page > > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/1736/ because it so well > > describes my sentiments about Xena. > > You know, one of my regrets is that Athena was introduced at a point when > she was a villain. Mind you, I loved Ares and what Kevin did with the > character. Precisely. Being a villain didn't do Ares any harm. > It brought some dimensions that we wouldn't have had with > Athena. Still, given the extent to which Xena and the Amazons (especially > with the Gabs connection) represented Athena's qualities, I would've liked > seeing interplay between Athena and Xena. Plus, Paris Jefferson ranked up > there with Hudson in my appreciation for what she did with her character. > I could just imagine Athena and Ares arguing about Xena's loyalties, vying > for Xena's allegiance, or Xena 'splaining to Athena why she didn't cotton > to gods no matter how much she respected them. But I guess that would've > complicated things too much, which TPTB saved for later seasons. > > -- Ife Besides, a friendly Athena? Kinda lacks drama. And it would have made Xena's job too easy, if she could call on such powerful assistance. Hercules (the show) had exactly that problem, dramatically speaking. How could Herc do anything really heroic if Big Daddy Zeus could step in and fix things every week? They solved that by having Zeus 'otherwise occupied' and not available almost all the time, so that his very occasional appearances were just extra problems rather than unwanted (by the writers) assistnace. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #73 *************************************