From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #61 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, March 1 2004 Volume 04 : Number 061 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] More XWP Inventions (was Re: Lucy TV Appearances) [Silenus ] [chakram-refugees] OT: Racist Images In Film-Ka Leo O Hawaii article ["Ja] [chakram-refugees] Re: CNN.com article on Dickson ["Cheryl Ande" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Ngila!!! [Sarah Anne Packard ] Re: [chakram-refugees] The Seasons [was: Ratings] ["Jackie M. Young" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] More XWP Inventions (was Re: Lucy TV Appearances) Ife writes >I must say your "waggle" >technique for picking locks does have precedence on XWP, though our girls >usually didn't have benefit of an actual key. I believe Gabs used the technique >(with a knife?) early on to free the girls in Ties. Xena, course, usually >preferred the less painstaking "smash or cut" method. LOL That's our WP. Why bother with subtlety when brute force will do? - -- "Listen, you guys! Stop scratching and picking for a minute. Everyone's getting nervous." - Joxer: "In Sickness and In Hell" Silenus, an over-exuberant fan ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 10:46:00 +1300 From: nzjester@ihug.co.nz Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] More XWP Inventions (was Re: Lucy TV Appearances) > In a message dated 2/27/2004 8:49:37 PM Pacific Standard > Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > > Another occasion I locked the keys of my wife's Ford > > Escort in the trunk, in > > a hospital car park. There were a few other Fords in > > the car park - Cortinas and Escorts - so I waited until > > one of their owners showed up, borrowed his key, > > unlocked the trunk with the 'waggle' technique, and I > > was mobile again. ) > > "I have many skills" - cr desperately trying to > > pretend he's On Topic ;) > > > > Awww, why bother? We're so far OT these days, the XWP > discussions have become OT. > > However, because it's fun trying make OT relevant, I must > say your "waggle" technique for picking locks does have > precedence on XWP, though our girls usually didn't have > benefit of an actual key. I believe Gabs used the > technique (with a knife?) early on to free the girls in > Ties. Xena, course, usually preferred the less > painstaking "smash or cut" method. I do recall her using > the "waggle" (with a skeleton finger bone?) when she was > in the body of that little girl. I'm not counting > Autolycus, since he was a "professional." > > -- Ife Don't forget the infamous lockpick taken out of one of the amazons bras while she was holding her bra closed with her hands - you have to mention that one ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 17:42:34 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Been There, Done That and The Dirty Half Dozen I watched these two episodes again along with the interviews. BTDT is one the best comedies the series did because Lucy played a very prominent role. Later I thought the series began to rely too much on comedies being Xena-lite episodes. Lucy is such a good comedienne that she is a joy to watch. I was somewhat surprised that my two favorite moments were suggested by Lucy. I loved the part where Xena kills Joxer and then just rolls over , puts her thumb in her mouth and goes to sleep. Xena just looks so satisfied at the moment, after all Joxer just got her and Gabrielle killed the day before today so I'm sure Xena feels justified in "offing" her annoying companion. Also Lucy gave Ted the line "is that a hickey?" What of course sells it is Joxer's innocence in asking the questions, Xena's apparent confusion and Gabrielle guilty look. You have the feeling Gabrielle forgot to give Xena a bit of information that morning. The Dirty Half Dozen is an episode that has grown on me over time. I always liked the music but I thought the plot a bit creaky. I never though Agonon looked like he could possibly be Ares chosen and that was a real problem for me. I did however like Glaphyra and Darnelle and I always wondered why they never reappeared. I therefore wasn't surprised that Steven Sears said he created the characters with the idea that they would return perhaps as Gabrielle's companions in a Xena lite episode. I wish they had carried through with that idea. I know Steven's reasoning why this never happened but I thought it was just a bit suspect. He said because the show depended so much on the relationship between Xena and Gabrielle they couldn't plan on Xena lite episodes. Well of course they did - King of Assassines, Fishstix, The Play's The Thing. There were plenty of times Lucy had to be away and they could have had Glaphyra and Darnelle accompany Gabrielle on an adventure. Instead they opted often for the easy out of paring Gabby with Joxer and dumbing down Gabby for comic effect. I think everyone just got a bit lazy and didn't want to write a real Xena episode without Xena. Secondly Steve also said it is this episode that sets up some of the themes for the rift. Gabrielle asks the pertinent question if she is who she is or who Xena made her and could she have been corrupted by bad Xena. Xena of course answers that Gabrielle is such a pure soul nothing could corrupt her. This answer of course sets both Xena and Gabrielle up for disaster. Gabrielle is convinced by Xena's faith in her that her moral judgment is superior to Xena's and that somehow she can't be touched by the seductive power of evil. So when she meets Kraftstar she trusts too much believing in her own ability to understand people. Gabrielle also rejects Xena's concerns over Hope because she has been told repeatedly by Xena that she is better than Xena because she has a faith in people that Xena doesn't have. Xena also underestimates Gabrielle capacity for deceit and jealously because she has convinced herself that Gabrielle is above such emotions. In the end the third and fourth seasons becomes search for an answer to Gabrielle's question of who both she and Xena really are. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 19:44:34 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy TV Appearances Hi, Cheryl posted: >I see that Lucy will be featured on a syndicated show called Entertainers this >weekend. I know nothing about the series but in the Boston area it is on >early Sunday morning 2 AM on the UPN station. Check your local listings. TiVo taped this for me while I was gone for the weekend ... I gotta say, I'm rather amused that the publicists for _Eurotrip_ have sent LL out to do 100% of the promotion for the movie, when she's in all of what, five minutes of the film (if that). =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://muzak.smoe.org =============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:26:36 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: [chakram-refugees] OT: Racist Images In Film-Ka Leo O Hawaii article Thought this article might be pertinent to our earlier discussions about casting on XWP. ;) IMO, if casting is to be "non-traditional", it should be non-traditional across the board, not just for white actors. I think XWP came the closest I've seen to this on TV. But, that doesn't mean it couldn't've improved. ;P Because, OTOH, if the setting is known for a certain ethnicity, then I think it should be cast as realistically as possible (i.e., casting all Japanese in an episode about Africa wouldn't work). BTW, the author of this article was in my journalism class last year. ;) - ----------- Racist images persist in films http://www.kaleo.org/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/02/26/403d8ada33396 - ------------ - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 20:38:49 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: CNN.com article on Dickson > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2004 18:47:08 EST > From: IfeRae@aol.com > Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] CNN.com article on Dickson > > > The U.S. press has been making quite a big deal about NZ's new status in the > film industry. They refer back to a couple of other movies shot there (e.g., > The Piano). They talk about how the landscape itself has become so important > in "fantasy" films, as opposed to CGI -created or enhanced scenes. I keep > waiting for them to mention Herc/Xena and the tremendous influence those shows > had in developing and exposing benefits to this point. Very few media stories > do more than give Herc/Xena passing mention as being filmed in NZ, if they > mention the shows at all. > > I've read comments from Lucy about how proud she is of Rob's contribution to > all that, how frustrating it is that he doesn't get more credit. I wonder if > it's snobbishness, ignorance or simply the assumption that that's not "news." > > - -- Ife I think a some of it is due to snobbishness. Movie people usually have a low opinion of TV people and then you add the fact that syndicated TV and genre TV is really low on the totem pole it is no wonder Rob and Renaissance Pictures get little recognition. When it is recognized Sam Raimi is mentioned and not Rob. Last year Rob was given some kind of award at the New Zealand film party so I assume they do recognize what he has done for the industry. Also I think there are probably people in the NZ film industry who would like to assume they did everything all by themselves without help from a foreign company, that's only human nature. I do know that the Kiwi actors who come to the conventions, especially Danielle Cormack, always mention how much NZ film industry owes to Renaissance picture. Having said this the New Zealand film people certainly have taken whatever they learned on Xena and Herc and mastered their craft with extraordinary results. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 21:26:05 -0500 From: meredith Subject: [chakram-refugees] Ngila!!! Hi, I can't believe I'm the first one to post this ... Ngila Dickson just won the Oscar for costume design, for _Lord Of The Rings_!!! Still on pins and needles for the Best Picture award (if LoTR doesn't win, I'm gonna punch something)... =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://muzak.smoe.org =============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 21:53:12 -0500 (EST) From: Sarah Anne Packard Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Ngila!!! On Sun, 29 Feb 2004, meredith wrote: > Hi, > > I can't believe I'm the first one to post this ... Ngila Dickson just won > the Oscar for costume design, for _Lord Of The Rings_!!! I know, I was so excited!!!! :) Woo-hoo Ngila! I figured she'd win, especiallu since she was nominated for TWO films!! Tis wonderful to see her finally getting her due...and with LOTR she really outdid herself. -Sarah- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 22:00:00 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Ngila!!! > I know, I was so excited!!!! :) Woo-hoo Ngila! I figured she'd win, >especiallu since she was nominated for TWO films!! Actually I was worried she'd cancel herself out with the double nominations ... but I forgot that with _LoTR_ she was actually co-nominated, so I'm sure that helped. >Tis wonderful to see >her finally getting her due...and with LOTR she really outdid herself. Oh yeah. She really is amazing. Of course, that's been blatantly obvious since the moment she left _X:WP_ and the quality of the costumes immediately tanked. :) P.S. _LoTR_ is 3 for 3 so far ... fingers still crossed!! =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://muzak.smoe.org =============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 18:11:20 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Seasons [was: Ratings] On Tue, 24 Feb 2004, cr wrote: > On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 18:46, Jackie M. Young wrote: > > > > --*Ahem*?!? "Happy, charming, cheerful"?!? Reckoning was the first ep > > that hooked me, and I wouldn't say it was "happy, charming", nor > > "cheerful". ;=P > > > > X beating up G?? Exploring issues of domestic abuse and anger management > > and manipulative exploitation? No, I wouldn't characterize that as > > "happy" or "charming". ;P > > Oh dear, now isn't that so late-20th-century. . 'domestic abuse, > anger management and manipulative exploitation'. No no no no no, this is > Xena Warrior Princess, a historical fantasy, not something to be buzzworded > and pigeonholed into dreary banal ordinariness. Oh no. - --_Well_, I hadda make it seem _PC_, now, didn't I?!? ;) And _current_. ;P I thought all the issues in Reckoning actually came full-circle to being further explored in BS, Debts, Sin Trade, FIN, etc. Ares' role in XWP's life, her anger, her guilt, whether she'd die to redeem herself, Gab's role in her life, the fact that she could still hurt Gab even though they were friends, how far she'd go to "save" Gab/a village, etc., etc., etc. All in one little tight, neat package. ;) Love it. ;=) > To quote the villain in Die Another Day (the latest James Bond movie), having > just nearly killed some poor unfortunate functionary, "Get me a new Anger > Management coach!" ;) - --Oh, definitely agreed! In fact, I pointed this scene out as a "keeper" earlier when I first posted about seeing it last year (?)/two years ago (?). The guy who played Sarah's partner in Witchblade (Will-what's-his-face), played the villian (in his original form, of course). *Great* irony on "being PC". ;P > > Reckoning was Dark. X got > > beat up. Ares framed her. X beat up G. X was going to be > > wrongfully executed unless someone did something. _That's_ Dark. > > Yes, but only a slightly dingy shade of grey. Destiny, now, *that* was > dark. And season 3 was darker. :) - --Actually, since XWP was new then, I'd say it was "appropriately dark". ;) S3 was more "angsty", but not necessarily "more dark". I.e., there were more feelings there, but I thought the depth of the feelings was about the same as S1/S2. Also, from S3 on, it became more exploitative, IMO. Obviously, everything had to expand to keep viewer interest, so TPTB made everything bigger and more (melo)dramatic. But I felt the kernel of what was XWP remained the same. > > I'm a diehard S1 and S2 fan. From S3 on it got too mishy-mashy-slathering > > in "feelings" for me, but that's just MO. > > Oh, I totally agree about the 'feelings' part of it. The less mishy-mashy > the better. But, for the rest of it, ain't nothin' in S1 or S2 that can > compare with the Rift eps or Sin Trade for _real_ Dark, IMO. - --Well, what _didn't_ sell it for me during S3 on was the "feelings" part. And it seemed they needed to over-compensate in the "feelings" category for what they did in the "dark" category. Granted, a fight scene like in The Way (at the end) doesn't quite compare in goriness with what we saw earlier. But something like the fight with the harpies in Mortal Beloved is similar. And frankly, I can do without the gore and just go for the action. ;P > > In S1 and S2, X was still the > > stoic, impassive warrior trying to make amends. I liked that. It made > > for a lot of focused comedy and drama, and not of the silly type that we > > got in the later seasons. ;P > > Well, the comedies got sillier, but then I never judged XWP on its comedies > anyway. There is absolutely nothing in any comedy that makes me laugh with > delight like some of the delicious irony/black humour in The Debt, for > example. - --I think the earlier comedies had just the right touch. My faves then were W...P, ADITL, Xena Scrolls. In fact, for some of them, I'd be hard-pressed whether to categorize them as comedies or dramas. The TPTB infused a good balance of both in what I'd say are "dramas": Beware Greeks, Path Not Taken, Chariots of War. > > The plots were a lot tighter. Not only > > that, a lot of X's techniques and sayings (like, "I have many skills" > > and the pinch) were developed during this time. I missed that after S3. > > But she used them in all eps. After all, if you have a new character (as > Xena was in S1/S2), that leaves room for introducing all sorts of 'new' > mannerisms. Later on, you can't do that because the character's > established. - --Yes, but in S1/S2, they "felt" new, and LL delivered them as "new". I still get that *tingly* feeling when I watch a S1/S2 ep and LL blows fire or says "I have many skills" or gives her X yell. It's like falling in love all over again. I don't get that feeling from S3 on.....;( Just MO, - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * "Feel the fear and do it anyway." --Lucy Lawless, * * Evening Post, 7/4/98 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 18:56:10 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The Seasons [was: Ratings] On Mon, 23 Feb 2004, KTL wrote: > > On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 22:04:13 -0900 (AKST), KTL > > wrote: > > > > > But I do know I'm VERY > > >happy that we got what we got post season two instead of endless > > >repetitions of the happy, charming, cheerful typical eps of seasons one > > >and two. Season three made me no longer somewhat embarrassed to be a > > >Xena fan. Gods bless PacRen for all their creativity and risk taking. > > > > --*Ahem*?!? "Happy, charming, cheerful"?!? Reckoning was the first ep > > that hooked me, and I wouldn't say it was "happy, charming", nor > > "cheerful". ;=P > > > Well, when I speak of simple, typical, cheerful eps, I was thinking of > ones like Chariots of war, Cradle of Hope, The Titans Prometheus, Death in > chains, Hooves and Harlots, The Black Wolf, Beware of Greeks, Athens City > Academy, Warrior Princess, Royal Couple of Thieves, The Prodigal, Altared > States, Death Mask, Giant Killer, Girls Just Want to Have Fun, Warrior > Princess Tramp, Ten Little Warlords, A Solstice Carol, The Xena Scrolls, > Miss Amphipolis, A Day In the Life, For Him the Bell Tolls, The Execution, > Blind Faith, Ulysses, and A Comedy of Eros. - --Well, without addressing the different points of each ep one by one (mostly because I'm more than a bit short on time ;/ ), I can say many of the ones you named above were ostensibly comedies (so were _supposed_ to be cheerful and happy), but many of them actually were quite dark. Chariots of War had much exposition about whether it was ethical to use force against any one group of people; it also had the arrow-pull-out scene I envisioned in my own recent pedestrian accident while lying in the hospital. ;P It explored a father-son relationship that was exploitative. It also depicted the "peace-niks" as prejudiced as the "war-mongers". The last chariot fight scene was the one that LL most remembers being cold and wet in. Cradle of Hope dealt with the threat of killing an innocent baby in order to advance one's own status in the community, and of the burden of responsibility passed on from generation to generation. As we discussed earlier, Titans actually had elements that signaled The Rift later on. X doesn't "trust" G with a young man. G is offended. Prometheus has the X/H love relationship and their willingness to sacrifice themselves for each other for a cause; also, G & I get together and I almost dies. DIC is all about Death. How can it not be dark?!? Hooves & Harlots is about the conflict between different-thinking/-appearing groups, and how do they get along? And racial prejudice. Beware Greeks is one of my faves; it _begins_ with a nightmare and a loyal messenger being killed and Paris' brother being suspected of subterfuge. IMO, it's _all_ dark and "evil", except for the joking around between X&G at the end. Altared States had that hateful speech by KUrban about X's "unhumanness", and the fact that one brother was poisoning his father in order to gain control of the family estate. Plus, it had X in almost-nekidness arising out of a lake; how can you _not_ like that?!? For some of the eps above I'd agree with you as to their formulaic approach, and I certainly didn't like _all_ of S1/S2, but for the most part I'd say they were more solidly written than the other seasons. I liked S1 more than S2, if that helps. ;) And, for those of you who liked Is There A Doctor, that was S2. ;P And dark. ;P Not "cheerful". > You know, simple warlord of the week problems, sure with some character > analysis, but nothing deep or terribly tragic. All self-contained eps that > were enjoyable but didn't keep you up at night wondering how in the name > of the Illysian fields was Xena gonna get outta this one. And how would - --Ya know, sometimes I _really didn't care_ how X would "get out of this one", it just seemed so far-fetched to me. ;P I enjoyed more her questioning of herself as a warrior or learning new battle strategies, than I did her mushy "feelings" for G. And X was doing all of this in S1/S2. Mind you, S2 opened with Orphan of War. ;P > seasons. And that did as you say, open up Xena's heart and character. I > liked that because I liked seeing Lucy challenged in her acting skills. > And I think she certainly rose to the challenge. - --;=) Ya know, I *love* LL to death and I'd *worship* the ground she'd walk on (if she'd ever walk on it close to here ;) ), but I don't believe she was always correct in her acting choices. ;P To me, it was more interesting to see her "hold back" than see her "gush it all out" in the later seasons. Also, she invested more of herself in the character later on, and she "wasn't X" (in her own words). I really didn't want to see LL in the character, I wanted to see X. And I think the more she played X, the more she became like LL, unfortunately. Just MO, - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * "Feel the fear and do it anyway." --Lucy Lawless, * * Evening Post, 7/4/98 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 05:18:13 -0000 From: "Sojourner" Subject: [chakram-refugees] LOTR wins 11 out of 11 - and all NZ gets thanked! .. Except me, unbelievably! And every category was earned, especially I thought Adapted Screen Play, Best Director, Best Score and Best Song. So Fran Walsh has 3 Oscars!? Astounding.. Kiwis rock sometimes. Peter Jackson is such a scruff. Love that about him. 0517 in the AM - blowing off work tomorrow... Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #61 *************************************