From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #49 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, February 21 2004 Volume 04 : Number 049 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] LL on Ryan Seacrest's Show [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] "Other" Official Xena Site [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] "Other" Official Xena Site [meredith ] [chakram-refugees] Re: Season Four [KTL ] [chakram-refugees] Season Four (2) [KTL ] [chakram-refugees] Season Four (3) [KTL ] [chakram-refugees] Season Four (4) [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] "Other" Official Xena Site [Sarah Anne Packard Yeah, it was actually a decent interview, and Lucy was just so > CUTE! I love her hair the way it is right now actually, short and kinda > wavy and stuff, even though it's not dark I agree on both counts. As to the show itself, Lucy said she likes frenetic, and that show sure was. What's funny is, she always seems so young to me, given that I'm ancient (heh). It was weird seeing her in this context, tho. She looked like the teacher in a kindergarten class (especially at the end, with all the other guests). Not saying she looked old or anything, as I suspect she'll always have a fresh, youthful air about her. But even the hosts of most of the other talk shows are older or at least more her age. The audience wasn't as young as I thought it would. As usual, though, she was her charming self and seemed to strike a chord with everyone. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 00:52:15 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] "Other" Official Xena Site I got on the mailing list for that Xena Circle site that sponsored her recent MSN chat. (casey@m80im.com ) Here are few interesting items: <> << Xena Warrior Princess Girls Night! If you live in the Los Angeles area, check out the flyer below for the first ever Xena Warrior Princess Girls Night! The event will take place next Thursday at Fuse (696 N. Robertson Blvd. West Hollywood, CA 90069). If this one is a success then there may be a girls night in a big city near you! >> [Note: today is 2/20) << Message From Lucy! We will have a message from Lucy to you posted on the site very soon. Keep checking back! << << Season Three Review Contest - This contest is ending very soon, Feb. 27th. If you haven't posted your Season Three Review yet, now is the time! Remember, you can win just for trying! << << Xena Hair & Ab Contest - Post messages about Xena's awesome hair and body and you could win an Autographed Photo Signed by Lucy and a copy of the Season Three DVD Set! >> ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 11:48:00 -0500 From: meredith Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] "Other" Official Xena Site Hi, Ife forwarded: ><< Xena Warrior Princess Girls Night! If you live in the Los Angeles area, >check out the flyer below for the first ever Xena Warrior Princess Girls >Night! >The event will take place next Thursday at Fuse (696 N. Robertson Blvd. West >Hollywood, CA 90069). If this one is a success then there may be a girls >night >in a big city near you! >> [Note: today is 2/20) Ooooh, a Xena Night!! What a fresh, new, innovative idea!! That's *never* been done before. (FYI, the next Xena Night At Meow Mix in New York City is coming up on Tuesday, June 8.) ><< Xena Hair & Ab Contest - Post messages about Xena's awesome hair and body >and you could win an Autographed Photo Signed by Lucy and a copy of the >Season >Three DVD Set! >> Pardon my acronym, but WTF is *that* all about?!? =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://muzak.smoe.org =============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:02:04 -0500 From: Cousin Liz Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] "Other" Official Xena Site meredith wrote: > ><< Xena Hair & Ab Contest - Post messages about Xena's awesome hair and body > >and you could win an Autographed Photo Signed by Lucy and a copy of the > >Season Three DVD Set! >> > Pardon my acronym, but WTF is *that* all about?!? Don't you know? Xena was nothing more than a T&A show. Or so you would think by the inane goings-on of this laughable group of people. - -- Cousin Liz eas01@fast.net Soulmates Xena Dinosaur Bards http://cousinliz.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 09:50:22 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] Season Four I again I find myself the recipient of a MASSIVE missive from Ife. I shall therefore slice and dice my reply up into parts to not cause anyone's inbox to faint from overload. > fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > > > The result is that we get an indecisive, insecure, beatable up by anybody > > Warrior Princess, one who now asks strangers for advice, HELL, asks > > suspect ENEMIES for advice, a person who has lost all her surety, her > > confidence, and her trust and belief in herself. > > > > And many fans (me included) had MAJOR problems with this representation of > > the WP. >> > Ife replied: > > Really? You mean in terms of believability ('Xena would never do that")? > Acceptance ("I can believe it, but I don't like it")? Both? > No, in terms of what the hell are they doing? I got real tired of watching my hero get beat up by two bit villains for the first time ever. It was very disconcerting and just didn't fit the character real well. Since Lucy played Xena filled with angst in season four, rather than dithering or helplessly wringing her hands, or giving up without fighting (even though it was no longer so easy for her nor absolutely guaranteed that she'd be the winner), I DID believe this version of Xena. But I didn't understand it. And I guess maybe I was afraid over how they'd resolve it. Once she talked with Krishna, the real problem was illuminated. Xena had been taught by Solon in Bitter Suite that vengeance is wrong, that one must forgive those who have hurt you, that deep love transcends many social or cultural rules. Particularly those that might demand such things as a daughter killing her mother to avenge her father. Or a person killing her best friend/lover (your choice) who unwittingly was manipulated into killing your only child. The final lesson she has to accept to "complete the course" in Illusia goes even deeper. She even has to let go of the hatred that led to her killing Ming T'ien. She's got to be questioning that whole mission. If someone she loves and respects and to whom she owes a great debt calls for her to murder someone in cold blood (which I believe is the purpose of Lao Ma telling Ming T'ien to give Xena the hairpin) it may not be right to do their bidding. It might be right to refuse the mission. She now believes that killing someone purely for vengeance is wrong. Does killing for someone else's agenda even if it is for the greater good, also wrong? Perhaps not. But Xena killed Ming T'ien absolutely out of vengeance, since she'd already brought his castle down and destroyed his "face", made him small as Lao Ma's message requested. So Xena can't leave Illusia until she "lets go" of her hatred towards Ming T'ien that caused her to murder him out of furious anger. This is the Xena who comes staggering out of season three. She's a woman with a totally new world view. But she's still the same old person. Her greatest skill is as a warrior. Her life's mission is to protect and defend the good guys from the bad guys. But with what she's learned from her son, regarding forgiveness, how can she continue to be a murderer? Even a murderer for good. No WONDER she's so off kilter. Xena had always believed in herself, sometimes it was the ONLY thing she believed in. And now she doesn't. RJ nails her insecurity with this paragraph: Xena to Gabrielle in The Way (Pre Krishna sensitive chat), talking about having seen herself as the Mother of Peace in BTL: (From Whoosh transcripts) "Yes-- but if I already earned that karma-- can I still mess it up? Maybe I was shown my future life for a reason. Maybe I'm supposed to change the way that I'm living THIS life, here and now. But, either way, a warrior cannot ask these questions in the heat of battle. When the kill is there, you have to take it. If I can't do that-- I can't be a warrior, anymore." This is what's on Xena's mind in season four. I LOVED what they did with Krishna. Because it's true what he says. That societies do need warriors to protect them and preserve them. And the warriors deserve respect for being willing to die to do this. (A complicated issue--justified murder. We still have qualms over it and still expect that our soldiers have a moral sense that keeps them from say, killing in an immoral war. Or post Geneva Convention, killing immorally in a moral war.) So once Krishna blessed her in her Warrior Way, she found peace again. And was able to do her job with full focus and full belief in the rightness of it. And was back as the Xena we'd come to know and love over the last four years. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 10:00:53 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Season Four ACK! I just noticed that in editing this paragraph I muddled things up some. > If > someone she loves and respects and to whom she owes a great debt calls for > her to murder someone in cold blood (which I believe is the purpose of Lao > Ma telling Ming T'ien to give Xena the hairpin) it may not be right to do > their bidding. It might be right to refuse the mission. She now believes > that killing someone purely for vengeance is wrong. Does killing for > someone else's agenda even if it is for the greater good, also wrong? I didn't mean to say as I DID above, that Lao Ma telling Ming T'ien to give Xena the hairpin meant she wanted her to murder him in cold blood. I think this was actually the fall back. That if he caught Xena before she could accomplish her mission (as IF. Snort. Not without Gabrielle's help in stunning Xena senseless by her peekaboo in Ming T'ien's bed), then when he handed her the hairpin, Xena could prick the ...guy. And bring him down by murdering him IF she had to. This is soooo intriguing a story. That Lao Ma couldn't kill her child but could send Xena to do so if necessary. Man, the Debt was one fabulous ep. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 10:16:43 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] Season Four (2) KT: > It wasn't until The Way that the whole subtle sub-journey Xena was > > > > on became apparent. >> > IFE: > > But wasn't that set up in Sin Trade and really brought out in Crusader and > Paradise? E.g., Xena's role as a spiritual/cultural guide for the baby Amazons, > her questioning of the purpose and consequences (especially for Gabs) of > being a warrior? Oh, that's been part of the series from the beginning. That didn't start in season four. Xena was ever the teacher for so many of the people she met. It was framed always as the reforming Xena talking against what bad guys do. And talking for having to stand up to them. And offering her sword to do so. And also warning Gabrielle that she should never, ever kill. Because once you do, everything changes. But this total loss of confidence in her own reforming message/way of life is a new wrinkle, mostly confined to season four. Until The Way. In the season four episodes after The Way, she's totally back again. Wiser and validated. She's no longer filled with self-doubt about if she's supposed to be what she is at her deepest level in terms of her life's mission: a warrior. KT: > And THAT subtext made the season one fine piece of > > > > work, once every nuance of what was really happening came into focus. >> > > Ife: > So then the previous angsty Xena became more believable or acceptable to you? Yes. Ife: > Or are you saying Xenastaff accomplished something extraordinary, but you > felt it seemed more forced on the character, rather than seeming to evolve more "naturally"? No. This time it all tied in perfectly and was absolutely true to the character. But as I say, it's only in hindsight that I realized this. I just couldn't REALLY figure out what was wrong. I mean the Xena we'd seen since season one would reject that vision of herself, that insecurity over being a warrior. Because she had massive self-confidence and belief in herself AS A WARRIOR. (Not as a good person though. But that's not the issue here.) Even as she starts her journey of reformation, she still believes that she should continue to be a warrior. Again, this was something else absolutely set up in Sins Of The Past. Xena has buried the tools of her trade. Because of meeting Hercules, she has decided to try to do good. And she thinks this means she has to stop being a warrior. But suddenly she sees the women of Poteidia being taken into slavery. And when she tries to help them, the slavers beat her up. They don't all sit down to tea, to discuss the morality of slavery with her. So she unearths her tools because she needs them to save the women from a life of slavery. And she realizes that because of her skills, she should stay a warrior. But now she's a warrior for Good. She always said, "We make our own destiny." And always believed that. So this insecure, passive, give up you can't make this better this way defeatist attitude was just so odd to me. UNTIL RJ explained what was really at the bottom of it. Not just her thinking she wouldn't be able to avoid the crucifixion, but WHY she thought she couldn't. And the why was that forgiveness, putting love above almost everything else, above righteous rage, above the moral imperatives from your society that demanded vengeance for the sake of vengeance, possibly deciding to not pay your debts to others through murder, was what felt right to her. And this created a major conflict inside her, making her question whether she should continue to be a warrior who murders people for ANY reason. Krishna straightened her out on that. Her way is not Eli's. But her way is right. For her. Snipped out the part about the ratings slide of Season four. I answered this in another post. I absolutely agree that them hunkering down and getting serious about the show was excellent. But it doesn't change the fact that season four was the season when the ratings slipped. A number of fans always tried to claim this happened in season three or season five. But the ratings charts I saw on Whoosh show the big drop as happening in season four, right after the India Arc. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 10:33:55 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] Season Four (3) Ife Said: > > I felt Lucy reacted more to ROC because of all that, > > >which is the "role reversal" I meant. > > > > KT: > > Hmmm. I didn't notice that at all. I just saw Xena changed in how she > > reacted to the world. But not at all in how she reacted to Gabrielle. >> > > Ife: > When people change, it also means they see things differently. Changes in > their goals, their circumstances, their confidence, their abilities, their > relationships, etc. cause them to notice, appreciate, fear, question, react in > different (new) ways. Xena wasn't reacting to "the" world. She reacted to *her* world, Same thing. The only "world" that matters is the one we live in. We don't worry much about wars in far places until somebody we know gets shot. An earthquake in America gets far more attention in our media than an earthquake in Japan. A murder at our neighbor's house makes us more insecure about our personal safety than a murder in another city. Etc. How we react to events shapes our own individual worlds. And that is the world we react to. Ife: which Gabrielle was integral to. Alti's vision changed Xena on many > levels Well not changed. Because it didn't last. Xena REACTED to it for a while. And then when she had her epiphany with Krishna, she stopped letting her fears over what was going to happen interfere with her daily life. She got on with her job. Snipped some for bandswidth > Xena can't take herself, Gabs or their being together for granted in the way she could before. I think she never took staying alive (with or without Gabrielle) for granted. This woman has had a truly tragic history. And in a number of eps, talks about expecting an early death. They both accept this as a fact of their live together, as was explicitly laid out in the dialogue in One Against An Army. Where they are both ready to die for the Greater Good. It JUST struck me that Xena doesn't seem to consider that dying on that cross in the vision might be happening for the Greater Good. I think for Xena, dying for the Greater Good means fighting to the death for it, not being passively executed for it. Unlike Eli who let someone kill him without resisting. That's what's bothering her maybe. She's thinking, "Perhaps I should lay down my sword. But if I do, somehow I wind up dying on that cross, dying without a sword in my hand and fighting against my enemies." Hmmm. I LIKE that idea! That sounds right to me, that it's not only dying on the cross that's bothering her but that she and Gabrielle MAY be dying for no good reason. Which of course, they were in Ides. Boy, I think that's masterful, if this WAS part of the subtext of the story. If her vision had been of her and Gabrielle dying in a fight, I wonder if it would have horrified her quite so badly. Sure, she'd still be filled with massive regret that Gabrielle would die with her. But perhaps that wouldn't have freaked out her quite so badly. BECAUSE as we saw in OAAA, visions of the future don't have to come true, once one sees them or hears about them and is aware of them. (Or else perhaps Alti was just a far better seer than Gabrielle was.) Gabrielle warns her to be careful of a guy coming through the roof. And once Xena knows about him, she doesn't get her throat cut but snaps the soldier's neck and kills him instead. Ife: She doesn't trust herself anymore to know what direction > might be best. She's more willing to follow Gabs' instincts, more focused on letting Gabs find her own way. Well she never, ever tried to move Gab from her way. Once she allows Gabrielle to join her, the ONLY thing she's adamant about is that Gabrielle should not kill people. It's possible that Xena's insisting that Gabrielle not kill is related again to Xena's loses in life of so many loved ones. Lyceus died in battle. M'Lila died in battle. Marcus died in battle. In Gabrielle's case, Xena of course is also trying to preserve Gabrielle's innocence and purity of soul. And that is very important too. But I think also her fear of how often warriors die play into Xena's stubborn resistance to Gabrielle not becoming a warrior who kills for ANY reason. Xena is one of the few people in the whole series who always respected Gabrielle. She defends her many times against detractors. And especially when people dismiss her for being naive and sometimes, for not being a warrior. Xena always acted with respect towards Gabrielle and her journey. And I just don't see any difference in that in season four. In Ides, she apologizes to Gabrielle for "making" her leave the Way Of Love. But Gabrielle makes it clear that it was her choice, not Xena's that had her murdering soldiers to protect Xena. Even crippled, even down on the ground, even in the midst of people trying to kill her as she lay helpless, Xena screams for Gabrielle to not leave her own way. Not for Xena's sake. Ife: It's not just the usual respect for Gabs as an equal partner As I said before, I don't think that Xena and Gabrielle ever became full partners. If they were, Xena wouldn't have kept leaving Gabrielle behind. I never saw Muldar sneak away from Scully because he thought the situation was too dangerous for her. Nor did Scully slip away from Muldar, either. (Well, at least not until Duchovney left the show and they had to write him as on the lam alone.) Xena loves Gabrielle and just doesn't want to take a chance on losing her, or rather, having the WORLD lose her or people like her. So she leaves her behind endlessly. She doesn't trust Gabrielle's ability to save herself. And therefore I don't think Xena ever considered Gabrielle a true partner in warrior terms. Someone to cherish, protect and keep safe? Yes. Someone to send out or even to have accompany one on a specific probable death mission? No. Ife: or support for Gabs' dreams. She also sees Gabs as the primary > victim if she herself is wrong in following her own instincts. Yes. Xena feels she has left behind a number of innocent victims. And doesn't want Gabrielle to be the next one in that too long line. Ife: It's ironic. > One minute it's like, "Gabrielle knows best what she needs." The next, Xena > makes a unilateral decision to leave, like a parent who knows what's best for her child. Yup. Exactly like a parent. And not like a partner at all. Ife: She treats Gabs as though Gabs is more fragile, not because she is, > but because Xena is so worried about doing something that will break Gabs. > Exactly. Again, I think that Gabrielle stands for all the innocents whom Xena was never able to save in her life. Always has. In Xena's mind and heart, she represents Lyceus, M'Lila, Akemi, Solon, and ultimately, even the lost childhood of Eve, her separation from her mother which made Xena unable to save her baby daughter from being raised to be the Bitch of Rome. In fact, this is exactly what I think was behind Xena's response to Gabrielle's clinical death in Is There A Doctor In The House. That the HUGE outpouring of grief was because Xena's been here before. And she's often been unsuccessful in the past in saving too many of those she loved from an early death, often as a result of war. On Lucy's acting acting in that one. I thought she did okay, given her skill level at the time. Today she would do it much differently and much better, I think. It was effective then and believable to me though. Because again, she was caught up in a helpless rage over all the people she had failed to protect and save in the past. And here it was happening to her again. She's started on that reforming path. She's working only for good now. And yet people she loves are still dying as a result of being with her. Sure, this is hindsight after the fact. All those others whom she lost just like she lost Lyceus, we didn't know about until after Doctor. But I think this idea fits, it's plausible. And that's what was another extraordinary thing about XWP. How RJ laid out so much in the first ep, how so much of the show grew from themes that he set out on day one. Amazing... I think it's very telling that Gabrielle became a full warrior with pointy weapons only after Xena became pregnant. And Xena accepted this, due to their recent history, but also I think out of respect towards Gabrielle's continuing journey. It was way too late by then to worry about everything changing for Gabrielle because of her first kill. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 10:54:33 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] Season Four (4) IFE: > In the scenes with Aiden and Njara, Xena listens with her usual skepticism. > Yet she essentially defers to Gabs ("Sure, if that's what you want") even when > her instincts are screaming, "It's too good to be true." In the past, Xena > never would've backed off like that, without at least remaining more vigilant > or insisting that Gabs respect her greater experience (as with Hope). She's > willing to leave Gabs in Aiden's and Njara's hands in a way she wouldn't have before. Exactly. And this is what was so disconcerting to so many of us. WHY is Xena suddenly insecure and not following her instincts? What's happened to her witchy sense? What the heck is going on here? And then as I say, for me The Way explains it all. But the change in Xena has almost nothing to do specifically with anything Gabrielle is doing or feeling or desiring. It's all internal. Xena has lost her self-confidence due to a sea change in her world view. That's what I think we're seeing in season four, that's what Rob and RJ were tryna tell us. Ife: She's focused on *wanting* to find good (the glass half full, rather > than half empty) where she doesn't necessarily see it, because she wants so > badly for Gabs to find joy, meaning, a "good" life -- which she fears Gabs can't > have at her side. > As she always has. "You know where I'm headed they'll be trouble." She was always willing to let Gabrielle go, to let her lead her life without Xena in it. Broke her little heart to do so, but her love for Gabrielle was always far greater than her love for herself. (Her love for a number of other people also.) Ife: > I wasn't initially looking for such changes. I discovered them in Lucy's > wonderful performance -- little glances, small shrugs of reluctant resignation, > moments of poignant tenderness where Xena enjoys being with Gabs while fully > aware that the next moment could be the one when they'd be apart in life or die > together. (snip snip) Ife: At first I attributed it to changes in Gabs, in terms of what > she'd gone through in S3. But I realized that Gabs wasn't all that different, in > terms of her curiosity about different beliefs, willingness to give people > the benefit of the doubt or desire for more peace and less violence. > > What mainly changed was Xena Exactly. - -- her own conflictedness, her greater openness > to giving Gabs space, No, again I'd have to argue with this as being typical, not new. She never stopped Gab from doing anything. Except for trying to get her to stop protecting Hope. But the whole Hope thing was a plot point for charging up the rift. Having Gabrielle help Hope kill Solon was the plot device that created something horrific enough to make Xena hate Gabrielle. And her naivet and tendency to always see the best in others. Something Xena had always praised, treasured and defended before. Generally, Xena never stopped Gabrielle from doing anything. From joining her or leaving her. From going to the academy or going home to Poteidia. She also never stepped in and told Gab that since her world view was 180 degrees from Xena's that it was wrong or misguided. Just the opposite, in fact. There was no difference to me in her attitudes and behavior towards Gabrielle in season four that wasn't already part of the characters' relationship and had been from season one on. With the additional nuances of Gabrielle as a physical fighter from season two on. Ife: her struggle to keep Gabs safe when she herself might be the biggest threat. Yes, Xena's world had changed. How could she not see or > react to Gabs differently, when she'd seen that world end like her worst > nightmare -- Gabrielle on a (presumably) Roman cross, with Xena helpless to do > anything about it? > Because the reaction was to her concept of herself and how her life's choices apparently would lead to Gabrielle having to die for Xena's sins. Which had also been brought up before in the show from Sins of the Past on. Touched upon in many eps in all seasons. For example, in Doctor in season one, Necessary Evil in season two, One Against An Army in season three. I saw no changes in how she was reacting to Gabrielle. She'd always had a kind of humble benign neglect towards Gabrielle's decisions and actions (except when actively saving her little bubble butt) and I didn't see any difference in that in season four. EXCEPT that she does keep trying to give Gabrielle away more than usual in season four. This is the only thing the WP can come up with. That perhaps if Gabrielle is not with her, she can manage to die alone and not drag Gabrielle up on a cross beside her. But she tried to give her away other times too, not just in season four. Little blond limpet just never got the clue. And thus gave us this lovely presentation of female relationships that is one of the best I've ever seen. And I bless 'em all for that. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 15:30:56 -0500 (EST) From: Sarah Anne Packard Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] "Other" Official Xena Site > Ooooh, a Xena Night!! What a fresh, new, innovative idea!! That's *never* > been done before. I know!! What will these geniuses think of next? ;) > > (FYI, the next Xena Night At Meow Mix in New York City is coming up on > Tuesday, June 8.) Waahhh...I wanna go... :( > > ><< Xena Hair & Ab Contest - Post messages about Xena's awesome hair and body > >and you could win an Autographed Photo Signed by Lucy and a copy of the > >Season > >Three DVD Set! >> > > Pardon my acronym, but WTF is *that* all about?!? Like, Xena's hair is like, so super cool! Ohmygawd! :) -Sarah, aka the abbagirl- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:20:02 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] More on Captioning I have to thank the closed captioning discussion for giving me yet another way to milk XWP eps. See, I watch maybe 3-5 TV shows during the week, so tend to revisit XWP when I want to relax with something I really like. During breakfast this morning, I continued through my S3 DVDs, this time with Maternal Instincts. I decided to watch it with the captions. This provoked some thoughts and a question. First, boy, were some of you right about noticing new things. After only a few minutes, I was struck by how much more I focused on the words. (E.g., Cally's opening comment to Hope -- "A child. I've always wanted a child." Seeing the words made me really appreciate the irony of Cally sort of giving to, and having a child with, Xena, then essentially being reborn as Eve.) Also, I was more aware of the body language, expressions, quick looks between characters. When I saw that mouse run past Kaleipus' feet in the cave before he sees Hope, I flashed back to the chicken in Greater Good that warned Xena of something amiss. None of that was new to me, but they became richer without my usual awareness of background sound -- "noise." Second, this made me want to ask a question directed to those familiar with hearing-impaired fans. When I think of Xena, her voice is a key aspect. The music is certainly a key aspect. I can certainly understand the frustration of not having a more "total" appreciation of the show. I'm interested in how you make up for that if you've never heard "true" sounds, if you experienced hearing loss later in life, or if you are able to hear something with an aide. How much do you "imagine"? What do you use as a source for that? How does what you "get" differ when it's lip reading, vs. having captioning, vs. getting to hear a little of what maybe you first got on your own? How much does seeing or hearing the words add to the *emotional* aspect of what you got from what you saw -- both personally and in terms of what was going on with the characters? Do you really learn that much more about the plot? Are there some eps where what you originally had to supply yourself was "better," the same or "worse" in some way than what you found out later? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:20:01 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] "Other" Official Xena Site In a message dated 2/21/2004 8:50:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, meth@smoe.org writes: > >< >check out the flyer below for the first ever Xena Warrior Princess Girls > >Night! > > Ooooh, a Xena Night!! What a fresh, new, innovative idea!! That's *never* > been done before. > LOL! The Xena Circle is certainly innovative, huh? > >< body > >and you could win an Autographed Photo Signed by Lucy and a copy of the > >Season > >Three DVD Set! >> > > Pardon my acronym, but WTF is *that* all about?!? > I think it's to spur interest/discussion. What's funny is, when I saw that, I thought about all the List discussions regarding Lucy's hair and ROC's abs, wondering if folks at the Xena Circle were confused, trying to do an ... innovative ... twist to usual topics, or truly trying to come up with "new" subjects. I do keep forgetting there are always new fans who haven't talked about Xena's early "poof" do's or particularly sleek body introduced in season 3. Heck, some of them could be lurking here, afraid to mention topics that seem "trivial" or "old hat" Pay attention, Meredith, as we could get some ideas from the Circle, which reminds us that "the good old days" are as recent as the most recent fan. As Callisto would say, "Bring it on!" - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 17:20:06 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] More on S3 Interviews It's always interesting to me to get insights into Lucy's perspective on the X&G relationship. Despite her belated view of them as a couple and her long-term support of the love between in them in whatever form, I continuously see reasons why she didn't perceive the subtext in the same way as other people. The S3 interviews give even more insights. At the beginning of The Debt, we see Xena roll over and her hand flop down on the space beside her. We, of course, know she's expecting Gabrielle to be there. But as Lucy's watching this, she says, puzzled, "What's she reaching for? Comfort, I guess." I cracked up. She was right in a way, but it seemed obv ious that she didn't specifically relate it to Gabs. Even if she knew that at the time, all she might've focused on was, "Lucy, roll over and let your arm flop down, like you're reaching for something. Look surprised when you can't find it." The irony is that this could probably be interpreted as one of the most subtexty of scenes, though in Lucy's mind, she could've been reaching for her favorite blanky or dollie. It underscored for me why Lucy in particular had so little clue about so many of the intimate moments and glances that contributed to the subtext, especially since she didn't watch completed eps or plan in advance as much about why she would do something, the way ROC did. Whereas Hudson, ROC, Liz Friedman, and almost all other commentators frequently made references to subtler, potentially subtext moments, Lucy seemed to notice only the most obvious or intentional ones. Of course I heard Lucy say over and over that they shot in bits and pieces, with little or no continuity or even context. I knew that this would certainly have an effect on her awareness of everything else going on. But I never had a real appreciation for how much in the dark the actors could be about the parts they weren't in or shot alone. I can really see how much the editing of putting together of scenes contributed to certain perceptions that might not have been obvious or intentional furing the actual shooting. The other comment that struck me was about the scene where Xena sets off from the dock for Chin. Xena kisses Gabs on the head. I personally viewed that as two friends parting, though I could certainly see it as subtexty. The affection and protectiveness would've been appropriate in a range of relationships where one person didn't want the other to be hurt. Lucy refers to the gesture as "this little maternal thing." I could almost hear the fond, "aw, shucks" in her voice. It surprised me a little to hear her describe the moment from a big sister or motherly view that she may have had at the time and/or was seeing in retrospect. I can understand why Lucy might've drawn on maternal instincts with Gabs during the early seasons or specific situations. But I'm thinking she may have seen Xena in that mode even much later, when a lot of other people were seeing something different. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #49 *************************************