From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #36 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, February 9 2004 Volume 04 : Number 036 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena 3rd season DVD reviews [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena 3rd season DVD reviews [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Other season three reviews [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena 3rd season DVD reviews [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena 3rd season DVD reviews [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Quest [was: Punchlines] [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena 3rd season DVD reviews [cr ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 21:54:05 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena 3rd season DVD reviews On Thu, 29 Jan 2004, mirrordrum wrote: > best part, imo: the title of the last graphic: > > Xena: And then we're gonna go to Washington D.C. and take back the White > House! YEEAAHHH!! LOL! You know, for DAYS I've been trying to access this site. finally got it to load tonight. And you're right--that IS the best part of the review! > > and i wonder if, in the review of the show they meant "rift" instead of > "shift"? > Grin. I think so. > "The shift angered plenty of fans, which would have been fine had it not > been so painfully contrived at times, even for Xena. But when the most > lovable character on the show gave birth to the Ultimate Incarnation of > Evil, it seemed to be nothing more than torture for torture's sake. Still, > it's well-done for what it is." > > and my the reviewer certainly has a lot of sympathy for what gab must endure > in season 3. Oh yeah. Definitely a Gab fan. And one who focuses on how he perceives Gab fans related to the show. For example, "Season three was probably the most controversial year of the show, especially for fans of sidekick, Gabrelle." And also that quote you have above. He talks only about the fans who were angry over season three rather than knowing and reporting that a great many fans love season three and consider it the best of all the seasons. And the Debt the best ep ever. And of course, the most telling of all, talking about Gabrielle but nary a mention of what was happening to Xena. Nor any mention of Lucy. Unlike almost every other review I've ever read, which normally run along the lines of Lucy rising above the material AND being so gorgeous to boot. So yeah, I'd say the probability is high that this guy is a gab fan. Or at least is talking to Gab fans for his background info. yet nary a word about the death of solan. i can just hear > xenahos everywhere grinding their teeth and the concurrent sound of gabfans > crackling with vindicatory electricity. LOL! Hon, if the Xenaverse has taught me one thing, it's that there's always some people who "miss the point". But that's okay--they are more to be pitied than censored. (I'd complete that song reference with a joke about a bird in a gilded cage, but then SOME people would think I was talking about Gabrielle and really get confused.) > > and after all this time, too. what a show! > Amen sister! We arrived in Houston, walked into the hotel, snapped on the TV and there was Callisto! I thought that the hotel had the Oxygen channel. But the screen instantly switched to scenes of Xena and then the announcer screamed out that we should buy the season three DVD set. Man, it was so nice to see her on TV again, even if it was just a commercial. But how kewl is that, that somebody was paying to run commercials for the DVDs on a regular channel that doesn't even run the show? She will never die. KT > > md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 18:44:17 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] "Doctor" Horse Call On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 18:08, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > On Sun, 08 Feb 2004 08:52, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > >Okay, we know you can resurrect virtually anything in the Xenaverse, > > >including dead horses. > > > > So, why is Argo still dead? Huh? >> > > She lives on in Argo II, doesn't she? No, only metaphorically. Just like Xena 'lives on' in Eve. It ain't the same thing, is it? > > Don't recognise the name. Hmm, the only Herc eps I can find her listed > > as a > > writer for, are King for a Day and its sequel Long Live the King, both of > > which featured Iolaus, both of which were Herc-lite. Minor eps, but > > actually ones I quite like. >> > > Yes, she said the usual writers didn't fall over themselves for eps missing > the star. She says she'd become friends with Hurst and that those were the > first scripts she'd ever done. They are, actually, very good eps. I will say that those eps were IMO above average quality for a Herc ep. (And this had nothing to do with the fact that Kevin Sorbo wasn't in them - I'm neither a Sorbo fan nor a Sorbo hater). They were just very well written, IMO. ) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 19:07:03 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena 3rd season DVD reviews On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 18:08, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/7/2004 10:47:56 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > What I would hope to get from a director's commentary in Sin Trade is > > some background into things like, how did they find the locations, and > > how did they get all those Amazons up the mountain, and so on. > > Zzzzzzzz. How about Sharon gets a few lines about that in a Chakram > newsletter, which I'd happily copy and send you, if you don't get the fan > stuff. > > -- Ife Bah. Just 'cos that doesn't interest _you_ .... what's a director's commentary for, if not to tell us something about the background to making the ep? Seriously. He can't spend the whole episode *only* telling us about what camera angles he used or how he told LL to play it. Some background would help fill in the picture for us of what the cast & crew went through. I think some of that could be very illuminating. Like, in the 'deer river' shot, was it raining all day so they *had* to film in the rain, or did T J decide the rain added some 'atmosphere'? And how did they get the camera to do a full circle round 'Xena' as she was dancing in the rain without the crew getting in shot? (I *think* it's because the camera pans down at one critical moment, but I'm not sure. Maybe the crew was hiding behind the bushes ;). Come to that, how did they all get there? - there's no road, at least not any more, did they all wade through the icy cold stream and walk half a mile or did a chopper drop them all there and come back for them later? Things like that. And yes, I *would* like to hear from T J (or RT) how they found the locations they used. Did they buzz round in a helicopter, searching at random, or did they just find them by accident? Or (in the case of 'deer river') was it a fishing spot that Rob and maybe Lucy knew? Heck, if you're not interested, you don't *have* to switch the director's commentary track on. :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:11:47 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] Other season three reviews Now see--THIS is more like the typical reviews I've been reading--Flawless has been posting links to a lot of them lately. http://www.atnzone.com/backstage/xena.shtml Notice: Among fans of Xena: Warrior Princess, Season Three of the series is regarded as a pinnacle in the six-year fantasy action epic about the legendary adventures of the beautiful and powerful heroine portrayed by Lucy Lawless. Got both Season Three as one the fans love AND a mention of Lucy's gorgeousnes. Now THAT'S more like it... And this site also has some clips you can download. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:33:57 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena 3rd season DVD reviews > Absolutely, without question (at least for us Xenafans, heh), ST. Lucy once > talked about how hard that was in terms of being "down" at the time, the > weather and missing ROC. Not just Renee. Lucy was doing scenes with NO other actors in that ep. There's lots of material at the beginning with just Lucy. And it's emotionally wrought scenes--she's grieving over losing Gabrielle and she's transforming herself into the shamaness. All by her little lonesome. It's hard enough to "let it all out" in grief, but she's also going just a little crazy as she becomes the shamaness. And she's the only one acting. There's nobody else with her in these scenes to "absorb" her emotions. Just the crew watching and recording. This has to be REALLY hard, when you're essentially blowing your top the way Lucy was doing in these scenes. I personally think all that contributed to her > performance in that very angsty storyline. I'd love to hear her own observations, > especially if she can remember what was going on in her head at the time. She was miserable, miserable, miserable. Remember that in interviews she talks about how she was so down and this was when she came across the Tony Robbins stuff and ultimately decided that she had to "cure herself". And one of the things she decided to do was to have a baby. Because she wanted to. It was time. > > > > > And of course there has to be a commentary on Ides of March. Lucy, > > and/or Hudson (and I expect the Gabfans will demand ROC :). >> > > I'd demand ROC as well. I learn a lot more from her about both of them, than > I do from Lucy. Lucy cracks me up talking about Xena as though she were a > totally different person -- e.g., about ADITL, after Xena's used Gabby's scrolls > for toilet paper, and Lucy laughs, saying something about "Oh, look! She's > looking down" like she she knows she's messed up. > At this con, Murray Keane, who plays Hower, did a commentary on A Day In The Life with Allison Wall and Steve Sears. And Murray also referred to Hower as "He". At one point I THINK it was when Hower was skipping away to do Xena's bidding, Murray said, "He's so gay. And he doesn't even know it." > Okey dokey. I'd definitely pick one of the India ones (including the > precursor, "Paradise Found." Except maybe "The Way," because so much has been said > about it already. I'd like to hear ROC and LL talk about "Devi" because it's > such a good example of the role reversals (i.e., Lucy/Xena reacting to > ROC/Gabs) indicative of S4, You know, you've said this before. I don't see that very much. Xena was never going anywhere specific anyway. And Gabrielle didn't take them to India on a spiritual quest. In India they found Eli and Xena found Krishna but that was after they got there. Season four from Xena's perspective is all about her "mid-life" crisis. What kind of a life has she led. (Oh boy.) Is she doing what's she supposed to be doing? Now that she's reforming, should she stop being a warrior? And of course, that hellacious vision of Gabrielle dying because she's with Xena has her running scared for most of the season. She's not particularly reacting to Gabrielle in any new way--she's always totally supported Gabrielle (except when she's killing Xena's kids) and always protected her and always let her do what she wants--like go to the academy or go off and play hookey with Xena. Whatever. The difference in Season four is that Xena is tentative about her life. And that is totally different. And gets resolved when Krishna kicks her butt and tells her to straighten up and quite driving herself crazy with insecurity. as well as how ROC approached playing Tataka. I > personally think she let Tataka play out some unresolved hostility Gabs had toward > Xena. I love that big ol' Gab stand in that they've got jumping on Xena's belly--it is so hilariously NOT Renee. Grin. > > I think there are any number of great eps to talk about (e.g., > "Crusader"/"Convert"/ Najara, "A Family Affair"). However, since we > didn't get to hear them talk about BS, WHAT?! No Bitter Suite? I can't believe it! Good gods...How can you skip THAT one? Phhhfffft. I STILL can't believe they didn't do BOTH Debts. But I do remember MONTHS ago when Sharon posted a list of what would have commentary and there was discussion on how just about every other ep would have something but that there wasn't room on a DVD to do full commentary on both eps. Somebody said that, anyway. I'd like suggest another > atypical one like "A Tale of Two Muses" or "If The Shoe Fits." I'd > like "Lyre" for that reason in S5, but I get the feeling I'm in a > minority in terms of really loving "Lyre." > Hell, LOTS of us love it! Well, at least most of my friends do. And what better band of experts could you have? Wink. > > Chakram - a minor ep but one of my minor favourites, so I'll give it a > > mention. >> > > My feeling is that this ep might've been intended to do more in the > way of background about Xena and the Chakram. I'm curious as to > whether that was too ambitious, so they backed off some ideas, or if > what we saw was what they intended. There's also a sense of setting > up Amarice more, which of course got short-circuited later because of > other productions. Anyway, if there's more background from RT in > particular, in terms of something he was trying to establish for the > series, I'd be interested. Or, if Lucy had some comments about her > approach to playing "cleansed" Xena. Otherwise, I could pass on it. > Yes, I think they were setting Amarice up as a protective warrior for the pregnant Xena. But as you say, then she got to do Cleo 2525. I really didn't buy her as a great warrior but she could have grown into it, I guess. And of course, once she was out of the picture, Gabrielle had to take over as the warrior for the pregnant Lucy. KT > > -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 22:59:47 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Quest [was: Punchlines] CR said > > > > I think it goes to show that a large part of my attraction to the show is > > not only because of LL's acting skills, but because of the iconic nature > > of the character. I *loved* BC being X and ROC being X almost as much as > > I enjoyed LL being X. >> > > Yes, I like that as well, now especially. In fact, I said to KT that I'm > seeing Xena in new ways by doing it more through the eyes of other characters. > KT didn't seem to be buying. > Show's called Xena. And Lucy plays her. > > IMO, Quest was a well-written, well-acted ep that advanced the X > > chronicles and her mission in life. ;) >> > > Yep. And as I said previously, it ended up being quite pivotal in terms of > Gabrielle's maturation and setting us up for future encounters with the guest > characters. Who couldn't help but have a special place in their hearts for > Auto and the Amazons after that ep? > The Quest is one of my favorite Lucy lite ones. I love Bruce Campbell in that one. And the kiss Psyche! was hilarious. Ah, such innocent days... Actually, the Quest was the very first episode of XWP I ever taped. I had fallen in love with the show over Miss Amphipolis. And then I actually paid attention to Destiny. And really liked that one, though I hated Xena's hair and that weird veil hat thing she wore. And then the Quest was about to start and I suddenly realized, "Hey--I could TAPE this and watch it again." And I ran around the house and found this old, used, over and over retaped cassette that I threw in the VCR. And even though I have the repeat of the Quest on new tape, the professional VHS copy of the Quest, the DVD copy of the Quest, I still keep that old battered first copy with the label that's all written over from all the things that were once on it. I just can't BEAR to toss it out... > > > > I also liked Amphipolis Under Siege, which I know a lot of fans didn't > > like (especially for the tin-foil cossies ;=/ ). But I loved the > > Athena/Ares conflict and especially the *hot* scenes between Ares/X.....;)>> > > Oh? I didn't realize a lot of folks didn't like that. For something other > than the cossies? Some fans hated Xena playing sexual games with Ares. Some fans went so far as to claim that Xena was about to be raped by Ares, that she was selling herself sexually for his purposes. None of the fans I saw say this are in the fandom anymore. But it was FIN that drove them out. I really liked how it was like full circle back to Sins of > the Past. Gave me goosebumps to see Xena's kinfolk standing up for her like > that. I love that ep. I love the scene in Cyrene's Tavern, where they sing the Amphipolis song. The allusion to the scene in Casablanca where they sing the French National Anthem to the Nazis. And those comments between A&A about whose "girl" would when Xena and Tin > Foil Amazon were battling? Had me cracking up. Nicely shot ep. > > -- Ife But the best thing of all about it? Lucy was back in her Xena togs for the first time all season. YES! KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 23:11:31 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena 3rd season DVD reviews > LOL, you can tell you are a Lucy fan. :-) I would like to know why ROC > chose to shadow TJ. Was it just that she didn't have a lot to do in that ep > and decided to take the opportunity, or was it that she particularly wanted > to work with TJ. Interesting question. I haven't heard her say much on this. I wonder now if she had already been tapped to direct Deja Vu or was this way too early? If not, I bet it helped when she asked Rob about it if he knew that she'd studied TJ in action. He's one of the best visual directors I know of. (I don't know many TV directors though, I have to admit.) > > I'd agree, except maybe for the "get ROC to talk about the way of peace." > > I'm not sure how much new she could say about that. > > I think it is only with the benefit of hindsight that this ep and the arc is > generated can be judged. The controversy that surrounded it at the time > prevented a rational appraisal of the themes at the time. Does she think it > was a mistake or a reasonable path on the voyage of self discovery. As the > character came full circle in FIN, where does this fit in now? Now I've heard her say a bit on this. She said something like, "I know a lot of fans didn't like season four, but I liked it." She talked about how it gave her a chance to "grow" Gabrielle, a chance to expand a lot on the character and on acting the character. I think about that too--although it always hurts to think of Gabrielle post FIN--how desperately lonely she must be. She had already lost most people in her life from the 25 year gap and now even Xena's gone. I HATE thinking of her sorrow. But yeah, how does she integrate her spiritual experiences of those days in her life now? Great question! KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2004 23:28:38 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] Adventures in the Sin Trade I decided since we were talking so much about Sin Trade that I'd send over my review of it. I think this was the first full review of an ep I ever did. At that time, believe it or not, I thought it would be terribly arrogant and egotistical of me to think that people might want to read my reviews of eps. It probably is, I was probably right, but here it is anyway. Oh, I wrote this one specifically because when it first aired a LOT of people were making fun of it for being so over the top. They laughed over Xena offing the horse, they made fun of the costumes, they joked about the spirit trances and the flying through the trees. And all of it was valid. (I suspect Rob had done some researching when he and Lucy went on that trip to Turkey in 1998 or so.) I was an Arctic archeologist for 12 years and have been to Siberia, seen many shaman displays in museums over there and have met shamans in Yakutsk. One was the Recreational Director on a cruise we took on the Lena River, organizing the fun events at night. BUT when we climbed to the top of the Lena Cliffs, she was the one who made a fire and fed it with vodka, meat and bread and chanted prayers about how the grass was so glad to see us, how the trees were bending over to welcome us and how blessed the rocks felt that we had come to visit them. Anyway: I found Adventures in the Sin Trade to be extraordinary television. The story was fabulous in all senses of the word. The journey of the spiritual quest of many indigenous religions was well represented. The lack of dialogue and reliance on images to tell the story is film-making in its purest form. The actors were good, to very good, to exceptional, which is not always true [grin] of XWP, as we all know. I thought Lucy Lawless was amazing. The research undertaken by the writing staff was scholarly and valid. They did a great job of recreating on American TV, within the confines of commercial network requirements and restraints, the world of Northern shamans and shamanesses. (I learned something new here: I had never heard the term shamaness, but when I did very minimal looking around on the Internet, I found the term Shamanka, which is how the Russian language feminizes "Shaman". Whoo-hoo!) Xena is looking for Gabrielle's soul and is essentially on a form of "vision quest". To achieve the vision, one must leave the body and commune with the spirits. One way to activate this inwardly directed communication is to be both physically and emotionally exhausted. Xena undertakes a far-ranging physical journey and on the way begins to withdraw within herself, divesting herself of the trappings of the modern world, putting on the skins of animals, chanting, and making rhythmic, ritualistic gestures to entice the attention of the spirits. Xena retaining her sword during this process was, therefore, extremely jarring to me, as it did not fit with her attempt to be one with the natural world. (Perhaps this is why she did not draw it immediately while fighting the berserker?) The camera work at the beginning when Xena is riding around the countryside, confronting Hades, and then starting her vision quest, consists of short, zoomed in, detailed pictures, scattered, and isolated shots focused on particular bits of faces, clothing, and body parts. This generates a gut feeling for portraying the disintegration of the person, Xena the Warrior, and her reintegration into Xena the Shaman. We see double visions of her as she spins inward: "My mind has lost its center... turning, turning... it can't hold". The rituals performed and the powers of the shamaness were correctly portrayed, at least as presented in the writings of the white European males (mostly) who documented the role and duties of the shamans. Alti's costume was absolutely traditional. Like shaman's costumes exhibited in museums, Alti's was dark and somber of tone. It also had leather thongs swinging hoofs, teeth, claws, and shells, which are things that would rattle and clank and bang as the shamaness passed. This would both announce her presence and warn people to behave appropriately around this formidable sacred person. As Xena searches inwardly to become a shaman, we see that her hair becomes matted, and her standards of personal hygiene drop a few levels. This "wild person" look, a "heaviness" and "otherness" of appearance, is another noteworthy hallmark of the shaman persona. Some texts mention the wild, piercing look of the eyes too. Perhaps this was what they were after with that rather enthusiastically applied mascara. (Either that or Lawless helped Stansfield put hers on.) Some shamans were good, some were bad. Shamans were sort of the priests and priestesses of animism but without the stratified hierarchy and institutionalized structure of industrialized societies' priesthoods. Shamans communicated with the spirits of all things. They interceded in the great struggles over and between souls - all souls, including the souls of animals, people, blades of grass, rocks, water. Everything is alive and has a soul in most Shamanistic religions. And of course, the reason Xena wanted to become a shaman was so that she might commune with Gabrielle's soul. Shamans got their strength from their alliances with souls. All shamans had their animal "familiars", and these souls helped them in their work. Much of their work was as a sort of "soul warrior", fighting to restore or destroy balance to souls. Xena has always been a warrior, and, therefore this duty was not foreign to her. When souls were out of balance, people got ill and would hire a shaman to try to battle the spirit (or possibly the other shaman) who had caused the imbalance. This was reflected in the scene where Alti was teasing the spirits out of the fire and sending them to make war on Xena and her band of lost girls. People also relied upon shamans to try to tease out everyday information. Such as for example, why hunting was bad. The shaman would travel to talk to the spirits of the animals and ask what the problem was. When hunting rituals were performed correctly, when everyone in the group acted appropriately and respectfully, the animals would give up their souls to people and allow people to capture and devour them. In so doing, the animal would provide a way for the people to continue to live, and the soul of the animal was then free to be reborn. This shamanistic tie-in with animals was also vividly portrayed in this episode. Xena was dressed in animal skins. She drank animal blood to enter the land of the dead. Later, when Xena had the Amazons erect protections against the influence of Alti, she had them hang animal parts in the trees. She anointed the young women with animal blood and fed the skulls blood also. She was concentrating the power of the souls of the animals to help her overcome the power of Alti. Shamans also used rattles, chants, dances, and gestures to perform their rituals. Lucy's stylized gestures were appropriately evocative of this tradition. Physical exhaustion to induce a trance was shown again when Xena and the Amazons performed their religious dancing until they collapsed. One of the defining powers of northern shamans is their ability to fly. They regularly go into trances and physically fly to the moon. In Alaska, when the USA landed on the moon, some of the Native elders thought the excitement was extreme. They knew people had been going to the moon since time began. The aerial battle at the end of Sin Trade is, therefore, absolutely appropriate and genuine. In fact, the ability of the shaman to fly is expected and customary in this culture. It is appropriate to use this skill as a way to settle the question of who is the most powerful shamaness. One of the neatest touches, I felt, was having the new shamaness be named "Yakut". Yakutia is one of the Independent Republics of the Federation of Russian States. It is located in the heart of Siberia and is a place where shamanism is still practiced. (Could be a wild coincidence, but wouldn't that be just too odd?) In Yakutia, horses are sacred but selected ones are sacrificed during important solstice rituals. The camp site where Xena builds the sweat hut has totems shaped just like the ones used in Siberia to tie the horses to during these festivals. Information on shamans is neither conclusive nor extensive, (compared to the information available on Christianity, Buddhism, and Hinduism, for example), due to post-contact religious suppression by Caucasian invaders. Still, I think the research/writing staff did a great job with recreating extant knowledge and presenting it on commercial TV. In Season Four, Xena will be observing and participating in several "alternative religions". How appropriate that the first Season Four episode examined tribal religions, the most ancient of them all. I loved that this was sooooo different than what we are used to seeing. There was nothing to remind us of Xena and her world: no Ares, no Argo, no half-naked, familiar Mediterranean Amazons (outside of the sweat lodge), and no Gabrielle. This was like a whole new series, and I enjoyed that tremendously. (Although by Sin Trade 2, it was kind of nice to see Xena as Xena again in those flash-forwards.) Someone complained that the blood showing on Xena's palms was incorrect, since when people are crucified, the nails are placed through the wrists. This is technically correct, however, the Stigmata of the Catholic saints always appeared on the palms. (Who knew?) People are also saying that this episode proves that Xena lied when she said that she did not kill women. I think other warriors are not included in that protected category. Besides, commanders can always make rules, but soldiers do not always follow them. Having that rule protecting civilians in a time like that, proposed by a ruthless warlord such as Xena, is an amazing concession. On the loose ends, the "dropping" of the characters of Cyan and the little lost girls, I feel sure we shall be seeing them again. Perhaps Xena is recruiting souls for the XWP "Armageddon", the climatic battle between good and evil and the twilight of the Greek gods. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 20:22:17 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena 3rd season DVD reviews On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 18:08, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > OTOH, if ROC and T J do some 'homework' beforehand, so ROC knows some > > background and what questions to prompt with (as Ife says she did in a > > 'coffee talk' with Lucy), then my reservations would go away. > > My understanding is that ROC *always* does her homework. I bet she knew > quite a bit about everything involved in Sin Trade, Maybe, maybe not. Remember ROC was gathering hints for her directorial debut in - what was it? - Deja Vu, which was a 'studio' episode. Sin Trade was filmed in, I think, three main areas - down 'the mountain' (the Land of the Dead scenes, Deer River, etc); the pine forests (the various Amazon camps and Xena's tree fights), which have been variously rumoured to be all over North Island but which I'd bet are somewhere in the Bethells area, and the Berserker fight was certainly at Bethells; and the studios. If ROC was concentrating on picking up tips for her studio directing, she may have felt it a distraction (or possibly may not have had the time or opportunity) to go down to the mountain or to involve herself in the issues of 'location' shooting which were irrelevant to her upcoming episode. Or, she may have done. Was she present the whole time? - I don't know the answer to that. > as well as managed to get inside TJ's head as he was directing. I think > she'd have great questions for both TJ and Lucy. Her interviewing them > would certainly be a fresher approach than the either the talking head or > giggle fest versions, though I ain't complaining about any chances to hear > backstory from Xenastaff. - -- Ife Yeah, me too. When you say 'interviewing' d'you mean a formal interview or d'you mean as a commentary track? (which is the version I favour). cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 20:57:26 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena 3rd season DVD reviews On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 20:33, KTL wrote: > I STILL can't believe they didn't do BOTH Debts. But > I do remember MONTHS ago when Sharon posted a list of what would have > commentary and there was discussion on how just about every other ep would > have something but that there wasn't room on a DVD to do full commentary > on both eps. Somebody said that, anyway. I do rather wonder about that. I know very little about DVD's, but a commentary is only an audio track. It's not like the video track which gobbles up gigabytes of data, I'd imagine an audio track uses very little by comparison. > > > Chakram - a minor ep but one of my minor favourites, so I'll give it a > > > mention. >> > > > > My feeling is that this ep might've been intended to do more in the > > way of background about Xena and the Chakram. I'm curious as to > > whether that was too ambitious, so they backed off some ideas, or if > > what we saw was what they intended. There's also a sense of setting > > up Amarice more, which of course got short-circuited later because of > > other productions. Anyway, if there's more background from RT in > > particular, in terms of something he was trying to establish for the > > series, I'd be interested. Or, if Lucy had some comments about her > > approach to playing "cleansed" Xena. Otherwise, I could pass on it. > > Yes, I think they were setting Amarice up as a protective warrior for > the pregnant Xena. But as you say, then she got to do Cleo 2525. I really > didn't buy her as a great warrior but she could have grown into it, I > guess. And of course, once she was out of the picture, Gabrielle had to > take over as the warrior for the pregnant Lucy. > > KT I agre with your analysis there. Not that I was happy about losing Amarice so soon, I liked her. Still, at least it got Gabby off that absurd and logically untenable 'way of peace' kick. ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 21:03:05 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Quest [was: Punchlines] On Mon, 09 Feb 2004 20:59, KTL wrote: > CR said > Errm, correction (just for the record) - although I was involved in the discussion, I don't think I said any of the bits you quoted in that post. (I won't waste bandwidth by quoting all the bits I didn't say - it was a long post). cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 21:51:39 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena 3rd season DVD reviews (Hmm, I missed Ann's original post somehow. I presume it was Ann's, since KT was replying to her) > > LOL, you can tell you are a Lucy fan. :-) I would like to know why ROC > > chose to shadow TJ. Was it just that she didn't have a lot to do in that > > ep and decided to take the opportunity, or was it that she particularly > > wanted to work with TJ. T J certainly has a very distinctive style of camera work. I'm not sure that he'd be the most obvious choice for a beginning director to model themselves on. But of course, there are many other aspects of directing that the audience can't see, and TJ may have been an excellent teacher in that regard. Or not. I don't know. > > > I'd agree, except maybe for the "get ROC to talk about the way of > > > peace." I'm not sure how much new she could say about that. > > > > I think it is only with the benefit of hindsight that this ep and the arc > > is generated can be judged. The controversy that surrounded it at the > > time prevented a rational appraisal of the themes at the time. Does she > > think it was a mistake or a reasonable path on the voyage of self > > discovery. As the character came full circle in FIN, where does this fit > > in now? Was this 'The Way' we're discussing? The 'way of peace' was really a rather unfortunate anomaly, IMO. It led Gabrielle into what we might call extreme pacifism. Not just defensive non-aggression, which is a practical and feasible stance, but non-resistance, which is difficult to sustain in practical terms and is really logically indefensible for someone who was hanging around with a Warrior Princess. It meant that Gabrielle, while ostensibly being ultra-pacifist, was depending on a powerful warrior to defend her when necessary. This leads to a logical contradiction - if you depend on force of arms (Xena) to defend you, how can you call yourself a pacifist? And of course it became even more pointedly inconsistent (one might almost say hypocritical) on the occasions when Gabby criticised Xena for her warlike ways. (For an example of how to do practical pacifism properly, see 'Gandhi'). Part of the controversy that was generated was, I think, because it made pacifism look ridiculous. I think the fans who complained about that were indulging in the fallacy (shared by many fans over many different issues) of reading a universal message into the actions of one character. In other words, "because Gabby's brand of pacifism is ridiculous for her in her position, TPTB are rubbishing pacifism in general". I'm certain this wasn't TPTB's intention; they wanted to show only how Gabrielle was conflicted, not to make some sweeping philosophical or moral statement. Just as Xena was uncertain of her 'way'. IMO. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #36 *************************************