From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #17 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, January 22 2004 Volume 04 : Number 017 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Thracians ["H.J.J. Hewitt" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Thracians [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Thracians [Meredith Tarr ] [chakram-refugees] name the Amazon ["Creation (Sharon Delaney)" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 00:36:09 -0600 From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Thracians >So considering that Xena was a fierce warrior, an expert horsewoman, a dandy >singer, had a tendency in her younger days to stick heads on pikes and >appeared to like a good orgy now and then - I would say she was the typical >Thracian. Let's not forget her rather interesting relationship with Ares and >her Bulgarian theme song. So do you think was just a coincident on the part >of TPTB or was it planned? I would venture a guess that it was a instance of splendid serendipity TEXena ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 19:47:42 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Thracians On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 15:34, Cheryl Ande wrote: > As we all know Xena was a Thracian because she was referred to as a > Thracian whore in Legacy. Possibly more significant, she came from Amphipolis. This is what I've been able to glean from maps.... Though borders moved around a bit, this was, most of the time, just inside Thrace, just east of the border with Macedonia. (This is Greek Macedonia, not the country now known as 'The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia' in response, I believe, to Greek objections that 'Macedonia' is the name of part of Greece. This is the Balkans, after all..... ) Thrace mostly lies along the coast to the east, towards Turkey. Amphipolis is on the Strymon River a couple of miles from the coast, and at this point the current Bulgarian border is only 50 miles inland. I suppose this may have some relevance to the Bulgarian style of music that (IIRC) LoDuca used to incorporate in his soundtrack. I believe (from memory) that Amphipolis was actually founded as an Athenian colony. Umm, yes, so it was, see http://www.culture.gr/2/21/211/21118a/e211ra02.html However - and this is interesting - after it broke away from Athens, it became a Macedonian city. (Quoting:) The foundation of Amphipolis finally in 438/ 437 BC, in the time of Pericles, by the general Hagnon was a great success for the Athenians, whose chief purpose was to ensure control of the rich Strymon hinterland and the Pangaion mines. Their success, however, was again short- lived, because at the end of the first decade of the Peloponnesian War (442 BC) Amphipolis broke away from its mother city, Athens, and remained independent until its incorporation into the kingdom of Macedonia by Philip II (357 BC). Under the Macedonians Amphipolis remained a strong city within the Macedonian kingdom, with its own domestic autonomy and having considerable economic and cultural prosperity. Excavation has revealed a large part of the walls and some of the sanctuaries and public and private buildings of the city. (End quote) So, it seems likely that national distinctions became blurred over time. Whether Xena was Athenian, Macedonian (like Alexander the Great) or Thracian rather depends on one's point of view. Probably people from this area were a mixture of all the races anyway. Certainly she often seemed to have close ties with the Athenians. Through her Macedonian connections she may have been related to her friend Cleopatra. But the writers seem to have called her Thracian more often than any other description. > Last night on History Channel International > there was an show about Thracian gold work. Thracians were the first to > work precious metals. There were gold mines near Amphipolis. Hence my theory about what Xena did for money - just like the Lone Ranger, she had her own secret mine. (Except his was only silver :) > Their artworks predate the Egyptians and are very > beautiful. They created gold drinking cups made in the shapes of both > animals and humans. There was gold and silver jewlery, weapons and coins. > The items found have come from graves in Bulgaria. It appears their kings > or chieftains like to take their gold with them - they also had the > disconcerting habit of taking their favorite wife along too > Not only were they famous artisians but they were reknown warriors. They > were allied with Troy during their war with Greece. They had a reputation > as being very fierce warriors who would carry the heads of their slain on > staffs. They were also known for drinking and orgies. Oddly enough they > were also known as fine singers and muscians. Orpheus was of Thracian > decent. Thrace was also suppose to be the birth place of Ares and he was > their favorite god. Hmmm, we can see where Xena got her interesting qualities from.... > They also were very fond of Dionysus (I guess it was > the wine) and Artemis (interesting to note that the Amazons were actually > from the Black Sea area). They were also famous for their horses and > horsemanship. Many of the god artifacts were bridles. > > So considering that Xena was a fierce warrior, an expert horsewoman, a > dandy singer, had a tendency in her younger days to stick heads on pikes > and appeared to like a good orgy now and then - I would say she was the > typical Thracian. Let's not forget her rather interesting relationship > with Ares and her Bulgarian theme song. So do you think was just a > coincident on the part of TPTB or was it planned? Oh, I see you got there first. Drat! I would be fascinated to know whether TPTB made a conscious decision to make Xena an Amphipolitan, or whether it was just chance. Either is possible. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 06:36:52 -0800 (PST) From: Meredith Tarr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Thracians Hi, - --- cr wrote: > However - and this is interesting - after it broke > away from Athens, it > became a Macedonian city. ... which is a large part of the reason why I will never quite be able to forgive TPTB for not doing an episode where Xena meets Alexander the Great. That would've been just so damned cool. Meredith, Alexander freak since the age of 8 meth@smoe.org __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:33:10 -0800 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: [chakram-refugees] name the Amazon Can anyone name the two Amazons in the photo I just put up on the fan club page at http://www.creationent.com/outback/fanclubs/index.html Thanks, Sharon ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 13:50:35 -0500 (EST) From: Sarah Anne Packard Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] name the Amazon I can! (Do I get a prize? Lol...) Amazon A is the character Eponin, played by Tanya Dignan...Amazon B I'm less positive about, but I think it's Magdelus, played by Aurora Philips. Just curious, what is this for? -Sarah, aka the abbagirl- On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Creation (Sharon Delaney) wrote: > Can anyone name the two Amazons in the photo I just put up on the fan club > page at http://www.creationent.com/outback/fanclubs/index.html > Thanks, > Sharon > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 11:17:15 -0800 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] name the Amazon You guys are quick! We're putting together a photo collage of as many pics of different Amazons as I can find. Many thanks :) Sharon >I can! (Do I get a prize? Lol...) Amazon A is the character Eponin, played >by Tanya Dignan...Amazon B I'm less positive about, but I think it's >Magdelus, played by Aurora Philips. Just curious, what is this for? > > > -Sarah, aka the abbagirl- > > >On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Creation (Sharon Delaney) wrote: > >> Can anyone name the two Amazons in the photo I just put up on the fan club >> page at http://www.creationent.com/outback/fanclubs/index.html >> Thanks, >> Sharon >> ========================================================= >> This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. >> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with >> "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. >> Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. >> ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 19:44:25 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Thracians - ----- Original Message ----- From: "cr" Yes I figured that Amphipolis was probably on the edge of Thracian lands. However certainly I think as you pointed out that Amphipolis could be seen as either Macedonian or Thracian. > > I believe (from memory) that Amphipolis was actually founded as an Athenian > colony. Umm, yes, so it was, see > > > > So, it seems likely that national distinctions became blurred over time. > Whether Xena was Athenian, Macedonian (like Alexander the Great) or Thracian > rather depends on one's point of view. Probably people from this area were > a mixture of all the races anyway. One the things I thought was interesting is that the Greeks thought of Thracians as barbarians in that they didn't speak Greek. They never developed a written language but there appears to have been an attempt to use the Greek alphabet to inscribe the jewlery but no one can translate it. I think it is often implied in the series is that Xena is looked upon as abit of a barbarian by others. She however certainly was literate but interestingly enough Rob at first wanted to make the character illiterate. Another interesting similarity. > > > There were gold mines near Amphipolis. Hence my theory about what Xena did > for money - just like the Lone Ranger, she had her own secret mine. (Except > his was only silver :) Well that is probably a better theory than mine - I always though Gabrielle just picked the pockets of all the thugs Xena dispatched. (I never though Gabby earned much money telling stories depite the fact she a great and talented bard (g)). > > > > > Not only were they famous artisians but they were reknown warriors. They > > were allied with Troy during their war with Greece. They had a reputation > > as being very fierce warriors who would carry the heads of their slain on > > staffs. They were also known for drinking and orgies. Oddly enough they > > were also known as fine singers and muscians. Orpheus was of Thracian > > decent. Thrace was also suppose to be the birth place of Ares and he was > > their favorite god. > > Hmmm, we can see where Xena got her interesting qualities from.... The girl was aThracian througha dn through. Also I didn't mention that the Tracians apparent had no one king but a bunch of either petty kings or chieftains (can we say warlords) who loved warring agains one another hence, Xena's youthful days of raiding her neighbors. > > > > > So considering that Xena was a fierce warrior, an expert horsewoman, a > > dandy singer, had a tendency in her younger days to stick heads on pikes > > and appeared to like a good orgy now and then - I would say she was the > > typical Thracian. Let's not forget her rather interesting relationship > > with Ares and her Bulgarian theme song. So do you think was just a > > coincident on the part of TPTB or was it planned? > > Oh, I see you got there first. Drat! > > I would be fascinated to know whether TPTB made a conscious decision to make > Xena an Amphipolitan, or whether it was just chance. Either is possible. I remember reading that some one on the Xena staff was a former history professor and I know Rob is interested in history so maybe the TPTB had some idea about the Thracians. I like to think they knew exactly what they were doing when they decided Xena would hail from Amphipolis. After all that's a pretty odd place to randomly select to have their heroine come from. There are plently of better known Greek cities to choice from - why there? CherylA > > cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #17 *************************************