From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V4 #1 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, January 5 2004 Volume 04 : Number 001 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 5 [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 5 [KLOSSNER9@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 5 [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Bring me the head of Tarzan's Aunt [KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 5 > From: "KTL" > .......> > > Actually, most people I know love A&C also. The main complaints I heard > > about it centered for the most part on how Xena once again falls for a > > guy. And of course this means she's dissing Gabrielle. Sub-texters who see > > the grrls as being in a committed monogamous relationship always have a > > hard time with this side of Xena. Cheryl answered: > Well as you all know I am a subtext fan however I have no problem putting > that aside if the guy Xena is falling for is someone I can see Xena going > for. Antony was someone I thought Xena could be attracted to - he was > handsome, powerful and very clever (notice how he never fell for her obvious > flirtations). He also was surprsingly vulnerable. Yes--this is what I liked so much about him. He was an honorable person. And he fell (not immediately and not just out of lust) for someone whom he felt was an honorable person also. And then he finds out she's been scamming him the whole time. XWP's Antony and Cleopatra was a very tragic love story. (As tragic, though in a somewhat different way, than the real story--A&C married and had kids and were together for a fair amount of time, I believe. But it did end badly.) As I've said before about XWP's A&C, the tragedy was in the honor of the lovers--both of them were fighting for something greater than themselves. And were both too honorable to stand down from their commitment to duty for a purely selfish reason. Vulnerability is something that tugs real hard on my heartstrings--it's why I came to love Ares in Season five, after he admits to loving Xena. Totally selflessly loving her, despite how she feels or rather acts towards him. I loved the fact that > Xena had this great plan - seduce the guy and then play him for fool - only > to have it come back and bite her. Her plan worked wonderfully but it broke > her heart. Yup--vulnerability is one of the things I love about Xena too. Though she usually tries to hide her grief and tough it out like a true stoic, she doesn't fool a lot of us. (Well, not ALL of us...grin) As the years progressed, we saw more of her hurt. But we also saw more of WHY she hurt so badly also. That's what I loved about Marcus too. His vulnerability both in being happy in loving Xena and in his awareness of the flaws in his own character. He knows he's making a choice to be a bad guy--he knows it's not the only way he can be. And when he lets Xena persuade him to make a choice to act for good, he dies for it. Asking as he dies if it's enough. The fact that Xena in the end plays the role that Caesar played > in early years - the betrayer of love - is a wonderful irony. Yes it is. But of course in this case the betrayal is not done for selfish, egotistical reasons. And the betrayer also betrays herself. This betrayer loves the betrayed--which makes it far more tragic than when Caesar first tried to do Xena in. The scene on the ship when Xena and Antony face off is magnificent. What great staging from Hurst and acting from Lucy and (mumble) John? something? something?...uh, Lucy and someone. You also right > when you say it was one of the most violent episodes. I think however it > fits the story well. This is a story about betrayal and it's aftermath. > You not only have Xena betraying Antony you also are dealing with the > aftermath of Brutus's betrayal of Caesar and Gabrielle confronting Brutus > whom she sees as betraying her. There is so much passion here that it is no > wonder it just erupts into violence. > Oh yeah, no in this one, the violence absolutely fits. It's not gratuitious at all. It's viciously gory and Gabrielle's bloodied face is a horrific image. But it's war, it makes sense. And particularly as you say, the violence comes from the emotions behind these confrontations. There are fierce feelings generated from the history of these characters that is far removed from "mere" killing in self-defense of most battlefield encounters. > > King Con was also crucified for the "Xena's likes this boy" aspect--but > > King Con was a much more "common" ep than A&C--I've never seen King Con on > > anyone's top ten list. King Con REALLY p*ssed some fans off because > > Gabrielle actually teases Xena about how Rafe is her kind of guy and is > > actually shown to be encouraging Xena to not ignore that attraction. Snip snip > > My problem with King Con was that although Rafe is handsome I always felt he > was beneath Xena. Hmmm. That's an interesting statement. And you're right. Xena did usually go for powerful and important men. Or at least men on their way to becoming powerful and important. And certainly Rafe was not that. Perhaps that's why Gab was throwing Xena at him--figured she go off with him, get bored really quick and be back on the road REAL soon. And Gabrielle could just pick her up again out there. She KNOWS reforming Xena learns lessons. But again, there was honor in Rafe. I liked how Rafe made her squirm. I liked the scene where Xena gets flustered when the maid almost catches them almost kissing. I like how Antony refused her "charms" and her astonishment at it. I love people who disconcert Xena. (Like the check-out clerk in Punchlines.) Odd but true. Again, it's that "vulnerable" thing, I guess. This idea that Rafe isn't important enough for her is interesting too in that it relates to Ulysses. Xena loved Ulysses because he was a warrior and perhaps because he was a king/leader. But once she finds out he's married, she's outta there. As Gabreille says in A Day In The Life, Xena would never steal somebody's boyfriend. Heh. > The actor who played Rafe is > now on Joan of Arcadia as the odious vice principal and he is very good in > that role. > He IS good in that role. That's an excellent show. I always think when I watch it that Lucy would have been good in the role of the mom. A TAD young, but she could have pulled it off. And that's the type of role I'd like to see her in. A comedy/drama non-genre role. With lots of scope for her skills in a show with very good writing and directing. snip snip > > And just watch Lucy as she fights in Ampipolis Under Seige--I saw a > > real joy in her too, > > in being back and being able to blast her way around the set as the full > > Warrior Princess. She was BOUNCING some in that ep, just hopping on her > > big ol' Kiwi hobbit feet. > > Oh didn't Xena always look like she had enormous feet when she had her boots > on. I guess it was those sneakers that were inside the boots that made her > feet look so big. > > I've never particularly noticed that she has big feet. I do remember the hilarious "folding feet" in Callisto, when there's that tight shot of supposedly Xena's feet hitting a bad guy's chest in Callisto's cavern. And just the toes of the feet bend WAY back as they slam into his chest. I wonder if those rubber feet were ever on sale on e-bay? However, don't forget that in one of the coffee talk videos, Renee can't get the remote to work because Lucy's "big feet are blocking the vcr". Of course as we saw at the con, neither of them are very gifted at making vcrs go. KT > CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 17:50:14 EST From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 5 /He was an honorable person. /And he fell (not immediately and not just out of lust) for someone whom he /felt was an honorable person also. And then he finds out she's been /scamming him the whole time. But Anthony wasn't honorable. He was determined to destroy his political opponents, at least some of whom didn't deserve it. That's why Xena had to kill him. The fact that he was a sincere lover didn't mean that he was a good guy. Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 13:52:20 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 5 cr wrote: > > > > Huh. :) I actually did not like Xena's regular leather armour at all. > > It's too comic-book IMO, > > > > Am I missing the point here? > That's a good way to put it. And it was totally stupid as a warrior costume. Ever notice how Evil Xena had the best warrior costumes in terms of practicality? I've been thinking about this lately--how Evil Xena was never dressed to showcase T&A. Cheryl replied: > No her regular Xena costume did make Lucy look bigger and brawnier and at > time her butt did look a trifle big (not everyone looks good in pleats). LOL! It never struck me before, but you're right--Xena's uniform was an early version of a Catholic School Girl's pleats. However, I KNOW the nuns woulda been all over her for rolling her skirt up as high as she did. > However in the big butt department the winner is Gabrielle's sari. When ROC > was running away from the flying carpet in The Way her butt looked as big as > Texas. LOL! KT sings to the tune of "Dallas", "Big B, little u, double t, oh yes." Yes, many people have commented on that. However, I think Renee has a bubble butt and that costume just accented that. Look at her in her little house on the prairie costume--Baby's got Back for sure. It was a terrible costume - a pretty color but that's as it. I > disliked non-violent Gabby and I hated her costume too - I am at lest > consistent > > > CherylA Take every aggravation and wring the most you can out of it--as for example, my own feeling of contempt for Xena's poodle hair do in Fates. What I hated the most in Season four was Xena's bangless look. I liked her in bangs much more. I was real glad Lucy gave up on growing her hair out then. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 17:56:27 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Bring me the head of Tarzan's Aunt > > I JUST watched the last ep of Tarzan on Christmas night--I had saved it > > as a Christmas present for me. (Though I HAD fast-forwarded it to take a > > peek at Lucy's new do.) > > > > And as I caught my first view of Lucy in the short do, my first amazed > > thought was, "Good gods! Even her SKULL is pretty!" > > > KT, dear? Do you have other XWP/Lucy-related items you've saved for later > enjoyment? Not at the moment...I'm not THAT strong. If so, perhaps you could post a list for us? I'm thinking then we > might anticipate such ... catching ... headers as this -- as opposed to our > eyes nearly falling out of their sockets, due to such initial thoughts as, > "What?!!!" We could pull out our list and play "Guess What This Could Possibly > Refer To," then read the post and see if we were remotely close. > What? WHAT?! Look, I was merely making a pop culture reference to an old movie called, "Bring me the head of..." Uh, I have to go look it up. Hell, I THOUGHT it was "Bring me the head of Pancho Villa", but it's "Bring me the head of Alfredo Garcia". As I found out when I googled, "head of Pancho Villa". (Getting of course, the comment that "of" is "very common and was not included in your search".) The quest for the head of Senor Garcia is apparently a Sam Penkinpaw movie that is horribly violent and misogynistic. AND one of the links threw me to a gay movie review site for a synopsis of "Between Pancho Villa and a Naked Woman" which immediately triggered off a HUGE number of pop-up ads asking me if I want to date handsome, young, WILLING men. Were I not on my work computer at the moment, I would have jumped at the chance... Now I have to go delete my history file, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, Ife. (There goes all my one letter typed in pulling up suggested links to Xena sites that I've carefully built up over the years...) > Anyway, thank you for your comments on Lucy's skull. You're very welcome! Lovely, aint it? I thought the hair and > stair-climbing discussions were indicative of our obsession. I think the > skull takes first prize. Hooo-hoooo! Actually, I've yet to read the Tarzan threads anywhere. I'm preserving my purity of thought for review purposes. Unless you want to talk about that weird fingernail on > the index finger of her right (?) hand, maybe the result of a childhood > accident. You'd probably think that was beautiful too. > Now I've NEVER heard anything about that. Nor have I seen anything like that. All I've heard is rhapsodies over how long and strong her fingers are from certain of my friends. KT > -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V4 #1 ************************************