From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #391 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, December 30 2003 Volume 03 : Number 391 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] RE: Tarzan's last episode ["Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] RE: Tarzan's last episode Jackie wrote: (Ife answered) >I'm sorry, I saw "stilted" and "different" in Cande's and Lilli's >comments, but I must've missed the word "lost." Is that to be assumed? > <- --;=P *Oooh*...picking at nits now are we, eh, Ife?!? ;P LOL IMO, "lost" = unclear, without direction, unfocused, not good. IMO, can also present itself as "stilted" or "different" if person is "lost".> Since there is now an argument as to what I wrote, let me clarify. I don't think Lucy was "lost" and I merely was trying to explain why some people may have seen her as stilted. I have just rewatched a lot of the Tarzan episodes while taping them and actually I think Lucy's interpretation wasn't that stilted. It was however subtle maybe too subtle. In the scene where Kate first comes to Richard about dividing the John's estate between them - it is obvious on viewing again that Kate is not only making an offer she also trying to see if Richard did find John. His obvious smirk as he refuses confirms this to her and she does become upset not because he has refused her but because he has hidden the truth from her. That is why she is unsurprised when Jane shows up with the wounded Tarzan later; she now knows the truth. Also in the third episode everyone wondered why Kate is so cold to Jane when she visits at the end of the episode. The reason is that Kate previously in the episode asked Jane for help in finding Tarzan and was basically told to take a hike - Jane didn't want to involved in Kate's family problems. So it is no one she isn't pleased with Jane in that episode. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 16:08:40 -0600 From: "S. Wilson" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Bring me the head of Tarzan's Aunt's At 12:08 AM 12/28/2003 -0500, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 12/27/2003 1:04:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, >fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > > > And as I caught my first view of Lucy in the short do, my first amazed > > thought was, "Good gods! Even her SKULL is pretty!" [snips] >Anyway, thank you for your comments on Lucy's skull. I thought the hair and >stair-climbing discussions were indicative of our obsession. I think the >skull takes first prize. Unless you want to talk about that weird >fingernail on >the index finger of her right (?) hand, maybe the result of a childhood >accident. You'd probably think that was beautiful too. > >-- Ife Umigawd. I can't believe you people. I'm not sure whether to giggle, choke on my coffee or be frightened. That's why I love HCNBs. I can't say I've ever had the (good?) fortune to take such notice of Lucy's ... skull. Well, not this Lucy, anyway. There's Lucy, in the anthropological world, and then there's our Lucy, bless 'er. And her ... skull. But... "skull" is such a harsh word. I vote for "melon." Happy [insert seasonal observance of your choice] everyone, S. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:35:02 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] RE: Tarzan's last episode In a message dated 12/29/2003 10:22:13 AM Central Standard Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: > Jackie wrote: > (Ife answered) > >I'm sorry, I saw "stilted" and "different" in Cande's and Lilli's > >comments, but I must've missed the word "lost." Is that to be assumed? > > > > <- --;=P *Oooh*...picking at nits now are we, eh, Ife?!? ;P LOL >> Uh huh. Isn't this a list for "nit" wits such as myself? (I could blame the spiked egg nog, but I drank that days ago.) > > IMO, "lost" = unclear, without direction, unfocused, not good. IMO, can > also present itself as "stilted" or "different" if person is "lost".> > > Since there is now an argument as to what I wrote, let me clarify. I don't > think Lucy was "lost" >> Yes!!!! Jackie? Na na na na na. (I could blame that on my youthfulness, but I'm long past the short-hair age.) and I merely was trying to explain why some people may > > have seen her as stilted. I have just rewatched a lot of the Tarzan > episodes > while taping them and actually I think Lucy's interpretation wasn't that > stilted. It was however subtle maybe too subtle. >> Uh huh. Rather in line with what one of us expert nit witters said. If you're a Lucy watcher (fan or professional talent hunter), you might take the time to slo-mo her skimpy scenes, in which case you might decide she did indeed have a plan, which I believe she executed quite well. However, if you're not a Lucy watcher (or a PATIENT Lucy watcher), you could easily blow right by the subtleties. In the scene where Kate > > first comes to Richard about dividing the John's estate between them - it is > obvious on viewing again that Kate is not only making an offer she also > trying > to see if Richard did find John. His obvious smirk as he refuses confirms > this to her and she does become upset not because he has refused her but > because he has hidden the truth from her. >> Exactly. Plus, there's a little of not judging him guilty of subterfuge until she's certain. That's one of the reasons I thought Lucy was trying to give "heart" to the show, by maintaining family loyalties and good will until forced to move against Richard. That is why she is unsurprised when > > Jane shows up with the wounded Tarzan later; she now knows the truth. >> Or, is at least open to believing John may actually be her nephew. She still gives him a studied examination first. Also in > > the third episode everyone wondered why Kate is so cold to Jane when she > visits at the end of the episode. The reason is that Kate previously in the > episode asked Jane for help in finding Tarzan and was basically told to take > a > hike - Jane didn't want to involved in Kate's family problems. >> I don't remember that exactly, but I did feel that Kate wasn't yet certain of Jane's motives. I mean, she was a police officer, not a social worker. She did become a "loose canon," to her colleagues and might've seemed unpredictable (which she was) to Kate as well. Again, I thought Lucy acted as any concerned relative might with a stranger who professed protectiveness, yet was torn between so many conflicting emotions. I believe one of the reasons Lucy came across as "stilted" was because of the expectation that she'd come out "swinging" as either a mama lion (warrior type) or warm and fuzzy toward John and Jane. But Lucy gave us a little of both in unexpected ways. Intitally, she seemed unusually generous toward the "bad guy" and unusually suspicious of the good gal/guy. To me this gave an interesting "quirk" to Kate -- showed her as thoughtful, not one to jump to conclusions -- and allowed for later development as Kate became more confident of what she was dealing with. Again, that did not lend itself to a "hard and true" picture of the character right off the bat -- possibly making Kate seem wishy washy and Lucy "lost" in terms of what the heck she was doing. Mind you, all that means I can certainly understand Jackie's concerns that Lucy didn't establish a more "solid" characterization early on, in terms of how many viewers might have perceived Kate. It's just that -- given the brevity of the show -- I preferred seeing Lucy do a lot of different (sometimes contradictory), subtle things with each of her few moments, than a one-note portrayal that she wouldn't have had the chance to expand upon later. I didn't have high hopes for Tarzan anyway, nor for Lucy's ability to singlehandedly save the show, so had no problem with her going for what she wanted to do. Thanks for the clarification! - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 17:35:03 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Tarzan's Last Ep In a message dated 12/28/2003 10:09:32 PM Central Standard Time, jyoung@lava.net writes: > But read Lilli's post again: > > >>Xena. I remember at the beginning of Xena she was similarly hesitant, > >>but yet still got into her character differently, more easily, and was > > "Hesitant" can mean "lost", IMO. ;P >> LOL! True, but I'm still not sure that's what Lilli meant. I might be "hesitant" at a crosswalk with no traffic signals, but that might mean I'm being cautious -- checking things out -- not that I'm "lost." > > Basically, LL wasn't as clear and focused in her Kate character as she was > with X, IMO. > I agree with you on a macro level -- in terms of a consensus among Xena staff as to Xena's basic purpose and nature. It was also simpler because Xena was the focal point, with all the action and other characters supporting that, reacting to her. I doubt seriously that as much thought was put into Kate, except perhaps by Lucy. She had to react to the three other principals. On a micro level, I believe she put less emphasis on her rather sketchy role as a newpaper tycoon. I think she was indeed clear about what she would project about Kate through the character's handling of relationships. It's more like what ROC/Gabrielle had to do with Lucy/Xena in XWP. I just don't think it's fair to compare the two situations or to expect Lucy to establish in one-minute intervals in Tarzan what she did in, say, the opening scene of SOP. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #391 **************************************