From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #389 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Sunday, December 28 2003 Volume 03 : Number 389 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Peekabo [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Peekabo [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Query for the experts [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Brain-teaser [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 5 [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 5 [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Query for the experts [KTL ] [chakram-refugees] Bring me the head of Tarzan's Aunt's [KTL ] [chakram-refugees] Crossovers ["Cheryl Ande" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 5 ["Cheryl Ande" ] [chakram-refugees] Can you be too Xenacentric? ["Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Peekabo > > > > Lot's of blue. They ALWAYS used blue. > > > > > > > > KT > > > > > > Hmm, I don't recall that. Blue - I associate with Xena's 'maternity > > > cloak' in the S5 Chin eps. And Dreamworker, I think. Doesn't really > > > come to mind in other eps (though I'm probably missing something....) > > > > Xena's dress in Chariots of war. Xena's cloak in Bitter Suite. Xena's > > skirt under her red armor in BS. Ares also wears a bight blue, yes? > > Gabrielle had the little blue jacket. Cyrene wears blue. There's actually > > early Xena leather corsets in blue. A number of the kings had blue cloaks > > though the Romans of course had red. > > Hmm, you're much more observant than me. Maybe I tend to notice cossies > more depending on who's (nearly) wearing them. LOL! After reading over this thread, I realized that the costumes I remembered were mostly Xena's...grin. > > The most colorful costumes were in the eastern ones--India, Gurkhan, > > Japan, etc. > > Xena's armour in FIN, f'rinstance. Red 'n' gold, IIRC. > > cr > > Yup. And FABULOUS! KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 21:21:30 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Peekabo On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:57, KTL wrote: (snip) > > Hmm, you're much more observant than me. Maybe I tend to notice > > cossies more depending on who's (nearly) wearing them. > > LOL! After reading over this thread, I realized that the costumes I > remembered were mostly Xena's...grin. Strange, that, isn't it? Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Query for the experts On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 10:28, KTL wrote: > > I'm just putting the finishing touches to my combined Herc-Xena cast > > list. > > And will this be posted somewhere or is it just for your own delectation? It's up on NewXenaland now. There are a couple of minor bits I want to tidy up, but I stuck it up there anyway. Try - umm - ( /cr3/xena/NewXenaland/nx/cast/herc-xena-episodes.html only works on *my* hard drive 8) (Scratches head in the hope of disturbing some dormant brain cells) http://cr.qc1.net/nx/cast/herc-xena-episodes.html oughta work, I hope. > > And I have a query - about 'crossover' eps. > > Are you counting the Herc movies as part of the series? Sorbo does. > In which case of course, Renee played Dienera (sp?) and Lucy played the > Amazon Lieutenant who beat up Herc and conjugated with Zeus. I would, if I had 'em all on tape. As it is, I don't, so that's a little addition for the future. I do know about LL as - umm - Lysia, I have that on tape. And I consider it only too typical of a Xena lookalike that she managed to score the King of the Gods ;) Did ROC really play Deianeira? Because, by Herc and the Circle of Fire (the other telemovie I've got), Deianeira had transmuted into Tawny Kitaen, and she stayed that way in occasional appearances for the rest of the TV series, and Tawny Kitaen looks nothing remotely like ROC. > > In the other direction, Herc and Iolaus appeared in Prometheus, Iolaus > > (for no apparent reason) in The Quest, > > Well, Lucy was hurt and unavailable, so they drew in all the firepower > they could to cover for her absence. Primarily of course, they highlighted > Campbell (always a big draw--he was THE biggest and most popular RenPic > star until Lucy eclipsed him) and they tossed in Melinda Clarke who had > buzz going from the genre geeks over her upcoming appearance in Spawn. > They made it an Amazon episode which had the advantages of not only making > sense since the Amazons have always respected Xena and would mourn for her > but also helped fill in the T&A factor which Lucy always provided so fully > for them, thus giving them an excuse to boob out Gabrielle in her new > queen outfit AND to have numerous dancing girls, and thus a showcase of > bouncing boobs and twinkling heinie shots. > > And in this vein of what they HELL do we do now?!, they also added Hurst, > whose character was very popular also and who would add his fans to the > mix. They had to be running REALLY scared at the time, what with their > star, who was in 90 something percent of the shots MIA. > > THAT'S why I think Hurst was in there for the few seconds he was. Well, yes, but it was really a rather pointless walk-on IMO. That is, I like Michael Hurst, but he really didn't have anything to do in the ep. Autolycus, on the other hand, was intimately involved in the plot. Ephiny (and Xenan) had a similarly pointless walk-on in 'Prodigal Sister', about a band of renegade Amazons (and quite a good it had Katrina Browne (Thalassa from Shark Island Prison) in the main role, and I reckon she looked better than she did as Thalassa. But I digress...) Ephiny never even got to meet the renegade Amazons, which makes me suspect someone said 'we've got five minutes to fill, how can we spice this up?' 'Dani Cormack's free' 'OK, write a little scene with her in'.... ;) > and Herc in God fearing Child. > > > Oh yes, and Michael Hurst was Nigel in You Are There, of course. > > > > Have I forgotten any? > > > > cr > > Anyway, to the point of this reply, Hurst also played Charon in Mortal > Beloved. > > KT Yep, and he was credited, too. Well spotted. Thanks. (He didn't play Charon in You Are There, that was Peter Rowley. I guess MH was fully occupied as Nigel). cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:26:22 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Brain-teaser On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 17:57, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > OK, here's a little puzzle I thought up. Can anyone tell me in which > > episode Darien Takle ('Cyrene') played Ares? (It's a bit of a trick). > > You mean Intimate Stranger, when Ares played Cyrene? > > -- Ife Yup. It was a trick, too, on Xena. Darien Takle was credited as Cyrene (which is correct, since the 'real' Cyrene was seen near the end of the ep), but not as Ares. Damn! The people on this list are too bright! (MarkB and HawkFalco got it too) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:57:48 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 5 On Sat, 27 Dec 2003 18:00, KTL wrote: > Snip snip > > > Antony and Cleopatra I think was incredible. I know many people didn't > > care for it but I loved it. > > I loved it too--it's an extraordinary ep, one that highlights so many of > the amazingly good things about XWP. > > Actually, most people I know love it also. The main complaints I heard > about it centered for the most part on how Xena once again falls for a > guy. And of course this means she's dissing Gabrielle. Sub-texters who see > the grrls as being in a committed monogamous relationship always have a > hard time with this side of Xena. And tend to get really upset over eps > that focus on Xena's enjoyment of boys. Their conterpart of course, are > the fans who get really upset over the concept of Xena and Gabrielle as > lovers. The only common ground for these fan sub-sets is that both of them > hate it when Xena flirts with other girls. See--we all CAN just get > along if we just find some common ground. Odd, that. My main complaint is a continuity one - that Cleopatra changed from Gina Torres (in King of Assassins) to Josephine Davison. They don't look remotely like each other, though both (IMO) make fine Cleopatras - probably Josephine Davison is actually closer to the popular image of Cleo, though quite possibly Gina Torres may be closer to what the real Cleo looked like, I wouldn't know. . OK, I know that Gina was busy being Hel on Cleopatra (no relation!) 2525 at the time, but surely they could've borrowed her for the five minutes of screentime necessary for Cleo to get bitten by the asp and die? Oh, never mind..... And hey, *I* wouldn't mind Xena having a fling with some other chick. Depending, of course, who the chick is.... Hmm, how *about* Cleo, for starters? Oh, I forgot, she's dead. Hmm, little details like that never seemed to worry Xena much.... > King Con was also crucified for the "Xena's likes this boy" aspect--but > King Con was a much more "common" ep than A&C--I've never seen King Con on > anyone's top ten list. King Con REALLY p*ssed some fans off because > Gabrielle actually teases Xena about how Rafe is her kind of guy and is > actually shown to be encouraging Xena to not ignore that attraction. I quite liked King Con, myself. And I thought Rafe was quite a good candidate for a Xena boyfriend. I thought he had an interesting personality - - way better than Uselysses, and I actually found him a bit more interesting than Anthony. (Not that I'm a girl, so what would I know? :) > King > Con of course also had the added burden of being a post rift season three > ep--when some people were still feeling a little raw over the rift. > Especially those who somehow missed that Xena apologized profusely to Gab > and begged for her forgiveness in Bitter Suite. "And NOW she's throwing > RAFE in Gabrielle's face!" LOL! You know, I actually miss the high drama > of those days sometimes... > > Other comments on A&C centered on how Xena deliberately played a > seductress as part of her plan. Personally, I never had a problem with > Xena using her body when scamming--to me it was just another weapon in her > arsenal to use when she needed it. The script showing the classic case of > the tricker getting tricked by her heart made this a more deep episode > than it might have been. > > It's also another horrifically violent episode in the last scenes. > Everyone is bloodied and murder is the goal of the day. Whew.... > > > Anyway I think season 5 got a bad rap. Kevin Smith is wonderful and > > Paris Jefferson is simply great as Athena. Not everything worked but it > > isn't horrible at all. > > > > CherylA > > Liz talked about how in FIN when Xena resurges into her regular Xena > outfit after Gab waters her, how there was vast hosannas sung in her > household. I felt that way too. But it was foreshadowed by the way I > reacted to Lucy appearing in her Xenasuit in Amphipolis Under Seige for > the first time in MONTHS! I was literally screaming, "SHE'S BACK IN > COSTUME!!!! SHE'S BACK AS XENA! SHE'S BACK!!!" The force of my joy almost > knocked my honey right off his feet. Huh. :) I actually did not like Xena's regular leather armour at all. It's too comic-book IMO, and worse, it makes her look like she's got a skinny waist and a fat butt. I prefer almost every other costume she ever wore, even including the blue tent-like dress in Purity / Back in the Bottle. ;) Am I missing the point here? cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:43:08 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 5 On Sun, 21 Dec 2003, Cheryl LaScola wrote: > I am pretty much in the same camp as Cheryl A on Season 5 getting a bad > wrap. > Of all the recent posts no one has mentioned "Livia" or "Eve" episodes. > I thought Lucy's acting was phenomenal in these 2. From her scenes with > Ares, her pain realizing she lost the chance to raise her daughter and > the fight scene with Eve in the temple, especially the sword play at the > beginning of the fight.... anyone else enjoy these eps?? > > Cheryl J I liked the eps. I just sat down and rewatched them and enjoyed the experience. And yeah, I totally agree that Lucy's acting was mesmerizing. And came right from and struck right to the heart. Xena's history with her children was nothing but tragic. And Lucy plays all those nuances of grief, lost chances and guilt with an aching torment that just breaks your heart. I also think the outfit Lucy wears as she fights Livia in the forum is the best alternative reforming Xena outfit of the whole series. The maroon undergarment is just a nice color on her and at least for once she has her shoulders, back and chest more protected than usual. Lucy is just so gorgeous in that scene in Eve where she lies still to let Livia kill her, because she can't stand to kill her daughter and she can't bear the guilt of letting her live to kill others either. She's emotionally paralyzed and just lies there as a sacrifice, looking at Eve with such love in her eyes. Even as Eve gets set to murder her. But these fine goodies were overshadowed for me by the whole light from above transforming Livia to Eve. That's just too simple, too trite. I LOVE Xena's struggle back towards her good side, the cost of it, the slipping back, the constant choices she has to make which sometimes include a touch of the bad side, etc. Certainly they couldn't spend that much time on Eve's return journey, (show's called Xena, after all) but this was just too much of an empty, shorthand cliche. I expect more from the guys who brought us XWP. And especially when Chris Manheim is involved in the script. I really dislike the 25 year gap concept. I hated what that cost Xena and Gabrielle. And I also never took to Eve very much. I think that Adrienne didn't do the greatest job as Eve. She was very good physically. She often seemed to be almost channeling Hudson as Callisto at times. She did really well in the fight scenes, I thought. But her voice lacked...hmmm strength. And menace. She was shrill too much. She also didn't quite hit some of the lines in a forceful way as one would expect a warrior princess to. (And especially one who was the biological daughter of Xena filled with a soul provided by Callisto.) These are the things that keep these eps from being on my really good list. But certainly they are far from the worst to me. I'm happy to rewatch them at least once a year or so. Or asw part of a marathon sometime. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 01:55:14 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Query for the experts > Did ROC really play Deianeira? Because, by Herc and the Circle of Fire (the > other telemovie I've got), Deianeira had transmuted into Tawny Kitaen, and > she stayed that way in occasional appearances for the rest of the TV series, > and Tawny Kitaen looks nothing remotely like ROC. Yeah, but it's not Herc's wife Deineira. She's just a lost princess who happens to have the same name as Herc's wife. It's not a bad movie--Renee is very cute, very fiesty, very early Gabrielle. > > THAT'S why I think Hurst was in there for the few seconds he was. > > Well, yes, but it was really a rather pointless walk-on IMO. That is, I > like Michael Hurst, but he really didn't have anything to do in the ep. > Autolycus, on the other hand, was intimately involved in the plot. Yeah, but they could advertise that he'd be there. They were doing everything they could to keep the fan interest up since Lucy was not available. > to meet the renegade Amazons, which makes me suspect someone said 'we've got > five minutes to fill, how can we spice this up?' 'Dani Cormack's free' > 'OK, write a little scene with her in'.... ;) > Yup. Ephiny has lots of fans. > > Anyway, to the point of this reply, Hurst also played Charon in Mortal > > Beloved. > > > > KT > > Yep, and he was credited, too. Well spotted. Thanks. I never realized it--I read about it online. Heh. He did GREAT though. Smile. KT > > (He didn't play Charon in You Are There, that was Peter Rowley. I guess MH > was fully occupied as Nigel). > > cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 12:02:38 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] Bring me the head of Tarzan's Aunt's I JUST watched the last ep of Tarzan on Christmas night--I had saved it as a Christmas present for me. (Though I HAD fast-forwarded it to take a peek at Lucy's new do.) And as I caught my first view of Lucy in the short do, my first amazed thought was, "Good gods! Even her SKULL is pretty!" That woman is astoundingly well put together. How many of us can say we have a cute cranium? I agree with those who said it gives her a gamine look. And I think that's incredible--it ain't easy for an almost six foot tall woman to appear gamine like. But boy, does Lucy pull that off. KT who never expected to find someone's brain case attractive (outside of an archeology pit...) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 20:55:11 -0600 From: Lilli Sprintz Subject: [chakram-refugees] Query for the experts cr asked: >I'm just putting the finishing touches to my combined Herc-Xena cast list. > >And I have a query -As I recall, the only occasions when Xena leads 'crossed over' to Herc, as >Xena and Gabs, was Judgement Day. > etc. >Oh yes, and Michael Hurst was Nigel in You Are There, of course. > >Have I forgotten any? > Yes! though he was "disguised" underneath alot of makeup. Michael Hurst played Charon, the god who ferried humans into the underworld on the river Styx. This was in both Mortal Beloved and You Are There. Lilli ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:24:17 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 5 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "KTL" To: "Cheryl Ande" Cc: Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 12:00 AM Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 5 > .......> > Actually, most people I know love it also. The main complaints I heard > about it centered for the most part on how Xena once again falls for a > guy. And of course this means she's dissing Gabrielle. Sub-texters who see > the grrls as being in a committed monogamous relationship always have a > hard time with this side of Xena. And tend to get really upset over eps > that focus on Xena's enjoyment of boys. Their conterpart of course, are > the fans who get really upset over the concept of Xena and Gabrielle as > lovers. The only common ground for these fan sub-sets is that both of them > hate it when Xena flirts with other girls. See--we all CAN just get > along if we just find some common ground. > Well as you all know I am a subtext fan however I have no problem putting that aside if the guy Xena is falling for is someone I can see Xena going for. Antony was someone I thought Xena could be attracted to - he was handsome, powerful and very clever (notice how he never fell for her obvious flirtations). He also was surprsingly vulnerable. I loved the fact that Xena had this great plan - seduce the guy and then play him for fool - only to have it come back and bite her. Her plan worked wonderfully but it broke her heart. The fact that Xena in the end plays the role that Caesar played in early years - the batryer of love - is a wonderful irony. You also right when you say it was one of the most violent episodes. I think however it fits the story well. This is a story about betrayal and it's aftermath. You not only have Xena betraying Antony you also are dealing with the aftermath of Brutus's betrayal of Caesar and Gabrielle confronting Brutus whom she sees as betraying her. There is so much passion here that it is no wonder it just erupts into violence. > King Con was also crucified for the "Xena's likes this boy" aspect--but > King Con was a much more "common" ep than A&C--I've never seen King Con on > anyone's top ten list. King Con REALLY p*ssed some fans off because > Gabrielle actually teases Xena about how Rafe is her kind of guy and is > actually shown to be encouraging Xena to not ignore that attraction. King > Con of course also had the added burden of being a post rift season three > ep--when some people were still feeling a little raw over the rift. > Especially those who somehow missed that Xena apologized profusely to Gab > and begged for her forgiveness in Bitter Suite. "And NOW she's throwing > RAFE in Gabrielle's face!" LOL! You know, I actually miss the high drama > of those days sometimes... My problem with King Con was that although Rafe is handsome I always felt he was beneath Xena. He was after all just a petty con man who took advantage of Joxer - a child could have bilked Joxer. I also thought that the episode couldn't decide if it was acomedy or a drama. The actor who played Rafe is now on Joan of Arcadia as the odious vice principal and he is very good in that role. > > I would agree that what worked worked very well. And I agree with you that > Paris was marvelous. It was too bad they had never had a story with Xena > and Athena before. Athena was beautifully written as a "good god". And > Paris played her very well. It was a shame Athena wasn't presented sooner. It would have been interesting to have her be a sympathetic character and then turn into a villian when the twilight was at hand. Of course this a really bad case of post season quarterbacling. > > > Liz talked about how in FIN when Xena resurges into her regular Xena > outfit after Gab waters her, how there was vast hosannas sung in her > household. I felt that way too. But it was foreshadowed by the way I > reacted to Lucy appearing in her Xenasuit in Amphipolis Under Seige for > the first time in MONTHS! I was literally screaming, "SHE'S BACK IN > COSTUME!!!! SHE'S BACK AS XENA! SHE'S BACK!!!" The force of my joy almost > knocked my honey right off his feet. I too was thrilled when Xena showed up in her regular Xena garb. I often wonder where Xena stored that thing. I guess poor Argo had to lug that around with Gabby's coat, scrolls, inkpots and all the other Xena preggy costumes. > > And just watch Lucy as she fights in that ep--I saw a real joy in her too, > in being back and being able to blast her way around the set as the full > Warrior Princess. She was BOUNCING some in that ep, just hopping on her > big ol' Kiwi hobbit feet. Oh didn't Xena always look like she had enormous feet when she had her boots on. I guess it was those sneakers that were inside the boots that made her feet look so big. > CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:28:02 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Crossovers Michael Hurst played Charon in Mortal Beloved. Does that count ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 22:41:31 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 5 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "cr" > Odd, that. My main complaint is a continuity one - that Cleopatra changed > from Gina Torres (in King of Assassins) to Josephine Davison. They don't > look remotely like each other, though both (IMO) make fine Cleopatras - > probably Josephine Davison is actually closer to the popular image of Cleo, > though quite possibly Gina Torres may be closer to what the real Cleo looked > like, I wouldn't know. Yeah that was a bit odd but as you say Gina Torres was busy with Cleo. Actually Cleopatra probably didn't look at all like Gina Torres in fact as far as anyone can tell from her coinage she wasn't all that beautiful. She however had a powerful personality and a "voice that sounded like tingling bells" (that sounds terribly annoying to me but it was counted as good point by whoever wrote that originally). Cleopatra apparently fascinated Caesar and Antony because she was intelligent and not because she was some pouty sex pot. > > > Huh. :) I actually did not like Xena's regular leather armour at all. > It's too comic-book IMO, and worse, it makes her look like she's got a skinny > waist and a fat butt. I prefer almost every other costume she ever wore, > even including the blue tent-like dress in Purity / Back in the Bottle. ;) > > Am I missing the point here? No her regular Xena costume did make Lucy look bigger and brawnier and at time her butt did look a trifle big (not everyone looks good in pleats). However in the big butt department the winner is Gabrielle's sari. When ROC was running away from the flying carpet in The Way her butt looked as big as Texas. It was a terrible costume - a pretty color but that's as it. I disliked non-violent Gabby and I hated her costume too - I am at lest consistent > CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:16:34 -0500 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Can you be too Xenacentric? On Christmas I was watching the History Channel's documentary on the religious books that weren't included in the Old and New Testaments. As each book was described I kept being reminded of Xena episodes. There was an ancient book which expanded on a passage taken from Genesis. In the story of Norah there is a passage that makes reference to giants and something about angels and humans (I can't remember the exact passage). Anyway there was a book that told of angles who were jealous of mankind and they came to earth and lusted after human women and had children with them that were giants. God and the good angles fought them and threw them into a fiery pit. Now I kept thinking about The Haunting of Amphipolis and especially Heart of Darkness. Lucifer lusting after Xena and then being hurled into a fiery pit seemed to fit right in with that story. Then there was an ancient book about Jesus' childhood. All was not hunky dorry in Jesus's childhood. Whne Jesus was five he had some run ins with the neighbors. There is quite a charming story about Jesus making clay models of birds on teh Sabbath and when the elders complained to his father, Joseph, about Jesus working on the Sabbath, Jesus clapped his hands the birds became real and flew away. Some stories weren't that nice. One had Jesus accused of throwing a playmate off his roof. He was accused of killing the child. Jesus raised the child from the dead to clear his name. In a much darker story one of Joseph's customer's complained about his work Jesus got upset and made the man blind (hopefully Joseph pursuaded Jesus to give the poor guy's sight back). Luckily by the time Jesus reached the age of eight he got the idea that his power should be used for good and started to do good deeds. Now reminded me of Hope - Hope showed great power as a child of course the power eventually was used for evil because her father was evil but there is an interesting similarities. There is the story Eli tells of when he was a child and was left with his father's friend who had a seizure. How he cured him despite the fact he didn't know how he did it. Here we have two children with great power using then before they really know how to control them just like Jesus in the ancient writings. There is the story of Jesus going to Hell after his death to rescue or retrieve the bibical forefathers. A little like Xena heading off to Tarturus to rescue the righteous in Mortal Beloved. There is also the Apocalypses of Peter where God tells Peter the condemned of Hell can get out of Hell if they are forgiven by the souls in Heaven. This of course reminded me of Xena saving Callisto from Hell in Fallen Angel. So perhaps I have watched just a bit too much Xena but it certainly makes Biblical documentaries even more interesting. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2003 23:35:38 -0500 From: "mirrordrum" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Query for the experts - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lilli Sprintz" To: Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 9:55 PM Subject: [chakram-refugees] Query for the experts > cr asked: > > >I'm just putting the finishing touches to my combined Herc-Xena cast list. > > > >And I have a query -As I recall, the only occasions when Xena leads 'crossed over' to Herc, as > >Xena and Gabs, was Judgement Day. > > > > etc. > > >Oh yes, and Michael Hurst was Nigel in You Are There, of course. > > > >Have I forgotten any? um, i'm not sure about the question. if it was "when did x and g *only* cross over to herc" both appeared as their xena lead characters in (as you noted), , and . are you not going to count lucy as xena in the herc trilogy? but then you mention MH in YAT but he didn't appear as iolaus in that one. he appeared as iolaus in and and of course herc appeared in and . > > > > Yes! though he was "disguised" underneath alot of makeup. Michael > Hurst played Charon, the god who ferried humans into the underworld on > the river Styx. This was in both Mortal Beloved and You Are There. no, MH actually wasn't charon in . i forget who was--sounded a bit like michael but wasn't. anyway, i'm not sure if you're wanting to know just when x & g crossed over to herc or when herc and iolaus crossed over to xena as well. hope this is helpful. :) i was just looking for something trivial to do. md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 00:08:23 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Bring me the head of Tarzan's Aunt's In a message dated 12/27/2003 1:04:45 PM Pacific Standard Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > I JUST watched the last ep of Tarzan on Christmas night--I had saved it > as a Christmas present for me. (Though I HAD fast-forwarded it to take a > peek at Lucy's new do.) > > And as I caught my first view of Lucy in the short do, my first amazed > thought was, "Good gods! Even her SKULL is pretty!" KT, dear? Do you have other XWP/Lucy-related items you've saved for later enjoyment? If so, perhaps you could post a list for us? I'm thinking then we might anticipate such ... catching ... headers as this -- as opposed to our eyes nearly falling out of their sockets, due to such initial thoughts as, "What?!!!" We could pull out our list and play "Guess What This Could Possibly Refer To," then read the post and see if we were remotely close. Anyway, thank you for your comments on Lucy's skull. I thought the hair and stair-climbing discussions were indicative of our obsession. I think the skull takes first prize. Unless you want to talk about that weird fingernail on the index finger of her right (?) hand, maybe the result of a childhood accident. You'd probably think that was beautiful too. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 00:08:25 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Brain-teaser In a message dated 12/27/2003 1:56:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > Damn! The people on this list are too bright! > Or possibly "obsessive." - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 00:08:24 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 5 In a message dated 12/27/2003 2:52:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > But these fine goodies were overshadowed for me by the whole light from > above transforming Livia to Eve. That's just too simple, too trite. I LOVE > Xena's struggle back towards her good side, the cost of it, the slipping > back, the constant choices she has to make which sometimes include a touch > of the bad side, etc. Certainly they couldn't spend that much time on > Eve's return journey, (show's called Xena, after all) but this was just > too much of an empty, shorthand cliche. I expect more from the guys who > brought us XWP. And especially when Chris Manheim is involved in the > script. > Uh oh. Looks like we disagree again. I admit, it was cliched, but I thought it was a quick, effective way to solve a conversion that could've taken forever. It's only the third time I can recall Xena praying (once to the gods in Return of Callisto and then to Krishna), and while I'm not much into the god stuff, I thought this scene underscored Eli's significance, especially to Xena. She'd told Gabs that she could kill Livia if necessary, but in the end couldn't. For once she had to rely on a greater power than herself. Again, I absolutely loved her usual self-reliance, but thought this expression of hope and love was appropriate for the Eli arc. I also found the flashback shots to be moving. Actually gave me warm fuzzies to see Livia/Eve getting to watch Xena nursing her, protecting her, etc. And to see such a peaceful surrender to love on Xena's face was a rarity I really enjoyed. Livia/Eve got more than enough air time for my liking. Reducing her babyhood to less than a minute was fine with me. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #389 **************************************