From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #385 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, December 24 2003 Volume 03 : Number 385 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Seeds of Faith [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again [cr] Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again [cr <] Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again [Ife] Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again [IfeRa] Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again [IfeRa] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 15:28:24 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Seeds of Faith On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 21:52, Sojourner wrote: > At 22:09 22/12/2003 +1300, cr wrote: > > > And cr, it was not rhetorical. I have been looking through Whoosh! and > > > noticed that Lyre Lyre is a season 5 ep. Yay! Always a good sing-along. > > > >Okay, well, maybe my suspicions were aroused by the title of your post and > >the mention of 'trash'. It just sounded like you'd already prejudged it. > >That seems to have been a misleading impression. > > PRE-judged? I have watched the entire season and it is a considered > judgement. I dislike S5 as a whole - because I could only count 5 or > 6 episodes I remembered liking. Well, put it another way, though you were asking for suggestions of things that were worth watching, it sounded (from the tone of your post) as if you'd already decided, for whatever reason, that most of the season was trash and your mind was already made up. > > Last night was Seeds of Faith. I was very impressed with Tim O's > performance - and also appreciated the playing out of the > redeem-callisto-and-be-redeemed-by-callisto plot-line which tied nicely > into the last temptation of Eli. All the resonances worked well, although a > bit explicitly stated. Now that, in fact, is probably my least-liked S5 episode (except for Fishsticks, of course). Mostly because of the religious overtones and the neutered Callisto. > There was also the parallel last temptation of Gabrielle, of course. The > rather sensual scene where Ares demonstrates the attraction of godhood > contrasted beautifully with her commitment to allowing Eli to martyr > himself - and the personal grief she feels. Xena did an uncharacteristic > jumping to conclusion - believing some bint in the crowd saying "she let > him die" - and accusing Gabby of failing. Rather weak scripting I thought. > But then X had her own grief at his death, which can often make us say > things we later regret. Well, no, actually she asked Gabby if it was true. And Gabs instead of answering or trying to explain that Eli demanded it, just went off like a rocket. One could argue which one (X or G) was most to 'blame' in the argument but since I was actually rather relieved that Ares had finally killed Eli, I guess I wasn't really in sympathy with either Xena's or Gabs' feelings on the matter. Eli was, unusually, a character I liked when he first appeared (as a street magician) and steadily grew to dislike more and more as time went on. It was probably proportional to his saintliness. > I also remember in FA, Michael (the bastard!) saying that the Callisto > personality revealed post-saving was her real personality - the one that > wopuld have developed if not for the massacre in Cirra. I hope not. I would > dearly have loved to see a Callisto un-shattered by tragedy, but with the > usual stresses and strains of growing up and maturing as a real, perhaps > more quirkier persona - not just the distilled compassion and wisdom of > post-saved Callisto. > > Liz Oh, I agree there. Angel Callisto was just too 'good' to be true, and boring. I kept wanting to see a hint of something more sinister going on underneath, as if some of the 'real' Callisto had survived, but there was nothing. I don't know, though, whether a 'normal' Callisto would have been interesting (except briefly, as a contrast to her former self). What made Callisto fascinating was her intensity and her wild streak. Take that away and a lot of the interest in her character disappears. For me, at least. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 15:49:26 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 06:58, A. Reddecliffe wrote: > > > It seems like even > > > in the eps that I recall disliking the most, there is always some > > > scene, line, or look that actually makes it worth wild!! > > Seaon 5 has some real highlights and none of the "never-again-on-my-VCR" > eps. That's almost exactly as I see it, too. (With one exception, MWF :) > It had Gabrielle's best fight scene of any season - her rope fight in > Little Problems. Wonderful camerawork. What is it about her and ropes, > prior to LP her previous best fight had been against Velasca in The Quest. > > The finale of Lyre, Lyre is about as good a "feel good" scene as you can > get. Dancing in the Moonlight from the same ep does come close. Yes, that was infectious, that number. > It gave us a really good new character - Athena. I didn't like Athena - much too snooty. But I agree, she was a very good character. Though I didn't like her, I was always pleased to see her on screen. (Does that make any sense at all? ;) Velasca, since you mentioned her, was another character in that category. Very unappealing, but good value on screen. > > Of > course, as a GabFan, I have been told that I may tend to gravitate > > > > > towards certain eps!!! > > > > Well, heck! I'd think you'd like Fishy, if only because it had so much > > of > > > Gabs in it. Of course, maybe it wasn't Gabs to you, like Xena wasn't > > Xena > > for > > > some fans in Fates. I'm a died in the wool Lucy/Xena fan, but I really > > admire > > > ROC and liked the versatility she got to show in Fishy. She seemed to be > > having such fun. The whole thing was so off the wall, I just made myself > > sit back > > > and enjoy the laughs. > > That is pretty much the way I see Fishsticks, switch the brain off and just > laugh. It does have some really funny moments in that ep. I love the > fireball fight between Aphrodite and Discord on the dockside. Now up to that point I was liking it. Aphrodite and Discord having a spat were always good value (they did it even better in Love on the Rocks, btw. Oh for some Hercules transcripts! But I distinctly remember something like: DISCORD: That's good, coming from someone who could double as a flotation device. APH: Fashion victim! DIS: Blonde! > It is best > not to think too much about the plot, treat is as the addled fantasy of > someone who has just been hit on the head. If we tried to make sense of > things like the ring Gab was wearing at the end, then it wouldn't be funny > any more. Its not Gabrielle in this or any reality, just a weird, funny > fantasy. I'd be more inclined to agree except that I can find no explanation for Gabs having in her brain any knowledge of late-20th-century TV sitcoms. Without that, the whole premise of the 'dream' sequence is inexplicable. It's a pity, because I'm sure the Aph - vs - Discord feuding in the 'dream' section would be very funny if I could bring myself to watch it. As you say, trying to make any 'sense' of it at all, stops it being funny. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 16:41:31 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 22:00, Sojourner wrote: > At 22:15 22/12/2003 +1300, cr wrote: > >On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:04, Sojourner wrote: > > > My trouble with S5 is that I wouldn't mind a montage of some enjoyable > > > moments - where any of the cast were either excellent or fetching. In > > > fact there is a music video to Ricky Martin's She Bangs which liberally > > > uses the dancing amazons in ... uh... Kindred Spirits? > > > >Lifeblood / Amazon High, more likely. And yeah, they were infectious in > >their enthusiasm. > > No - the scene where they are teaching Xena the dance - and X has that "I > would rather be pulling a cactus out of my arse than doing this" look on > her face. Definitely KS. Umm. OK. I was thinking of the enthusiastic dancing at the end of Lifeblood (or I should say, Amazon High). > > I remember the fall-out on the lists when Callisto got good in FA - > > > >Now that was a great disappointment for me. > > > >Rephrase that - that moment when Xena saved her was absolutely fantastic. > >Real emotional dynamite. Unfortunately the fall-out (to pinch your term) > >was that Callisto ended up neutered, wimpy, angelic and good. Which was > >very bad. As in Seeds of Faith. > > Very good. I thought. Lovely work by Hudson - very different from the high > energy of old callisto - the calm, compassion and love she pours forth. Her > pained understanding of Eli's fears about being martyred, how he loves the > world and doens't want to leave it. Perhaps he actually feared the physical > pain? Obviously, for me, Callisto being bad is good, and Callisto being good is bad. I just didn't appreciate 'good' Callisto. I just wanted my lovely Evil Callisto back. (Don't actors say it's much easier to play villains than heroes?) > Certainly his death scene, in Gabby's arms is great. No calm beautiful > words. Just the sheer physical agony of having been run through by a sword! > BTW doesn't Gabby pick up Ares' sword at one point? Didn't see the godhood > passing to her! Evidently, possession of Ares' sword is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition for being God of War. > And the contrast when we see Eli again as ?an angel? - missing the vital > spark that made him a dynamic and charismatic leader. Missing his humanity > already. > > Liz Dynamic and charismatic? You evidently saw something in Eli that I didn't. I just couldn't give his Way of Peace any credence at all. (The irony of this exchange, in the light of our preliminary comments on Season 5, has not escaped me ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:52:20 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again In a message dated 12/23/2003 10:01:28 AM Pacific Standard Time, a.reddecliffe@ntlworld.com writes: > It is best > not to think too much about the plot, treat is as the addled fantasy of > someone who has just been hit on the head. Bwahahahahaha! Perfect description of Fisticks! - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:52:22 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again In a message dated 12/22/2003 11:54:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, eas01@fast.net writes: > I've found I can sit and enjoy some of the more "slapstick" Xena > episodes if I don't view them as "XENA" episodes while I am watching > them. Still, even that didn't help for 'Fishsticks' > Anything in particular, or just the whole concept? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 23:52:21 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again In a message dated 12/23/2003 9:21:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, spri0037@tc.umn.edu writes: > hmmmmmmm, let me put it "differently", it was, without a doubt, > the most sexist of any of the Xena programs i saw over the 6 year period. > True, but Fishy was such a wonderful parody of "the good little wifey" that I didn't mind. Joxer and the other men came off as the idiots. In the end, Gabs showed that even amnesia couldn't kill her spirit. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #385 **************************************