From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #384 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, December 23 2003 Volume 03 : Number 384 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again [IfeRa] Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again [IfeR] Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again [cr <] Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again [cr <] Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 5 [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Peekabo [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again [cr > Ife says, > > "and (after great initial reluctance) even Fishsticks" > > > Oh, no no no no no no no no no. > "No" to liking Fishy? Or "no" to my initial resistance? Methinks it's probably the former, eh? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 00:55:43 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again In a message dated 12/21/2003 10:59:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, mab961@satx.rr.com writes: > Many times I'll wind up watching > 'the other ep' on the tape and wind up enjoying it. It seems like even > in the eps that I recall disliking the most, there is always some scene, > line, or look that actually makes it worth wild!! Even... er.... > 'Fishsticks'... which was thumbed down by about everyone . >> You too? (See, Lilli, I'm not the only one. ) I agree with you, that I too am amazed at how much I enjoy some eps that previously didn't do much for me. I suspect some of it is because it's like "discovering" a new ep among the ones I've watched 100 times. I think "For Whom the Bell Tolls" is the only ep I'd never watched twice. I watched it not long ago and was okay that it was Xena-lite and Joxer-heavy. I'm much more appreciative of Ted Raimi's performances than I was when I wanted every minute to be about Xena. Of > course, as a GabFan, I have been told that I may tend to gravitate > towards certain eps!!! > Well, heck! I'd think you'd like Fishy, if only because it had so much of Gabs in it. Of course, maybe it wasn't Gabs to you, like Xena wasn't Xena for some fans in Fates. I'm a died in the wool Lucy/Xena fan, but I really admire ROC and liked the versatility she got to show in Fishy. She seemed to be having such fun. The whole thing was so off the wall, I just made myself sit back and enjoy the laughs. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:09:23 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 23:12, Liz wrote: > At 21:23 20/12/2003 +1300, cr wrote: > >On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 08:43, Liz wrote: > > > Here in the UK, XWP is playing on the Bravo cable channel - best of all > > > it plays 3 times a day, 4 days a week. Heavan you might think? Alas we > > > have just dived into the trash that is seasaon 5, post Them Bones. > > > > > > What pearls, if any, should I endeavour to catch? Or should I just > > > hunker down and wait for season 6? > > > > > > I may actually try to watch Married with Fishsticks.... perhaps with > > > chemically altered neural patterns? > > > > > > Perhaps Antony and Cleopatra? Amphipolis Under Seige? > > > > > > That's not much worth salvaging from a whole season...... > > > aaarrrrggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!! > > > > > > Liz > > > >Hey, XT, will you set her right or shall I? ;) > > Who the H-E-doublehockeysticks is XT? Xena Torres, who is on this list and has a prominent "Season 5 supporter" logo on her site. (Sorry for 'outing' you, XT ;) > >Liz, with respect, I hope your question was just a rhetorical one. If ya > >didn't like Season 5, you didn't like it, and no amount of argument from > > us is likely to change your opinion. I'm quite prepared to say which S5 > > episodes *I* liked - which is most of them, actually - but from the title > > and tone of your post I wouldn't necessarily expect you to like them. > > > >Best I can suggest is you try to watch 'em all with an open mind - you > > might find some are better than you expect. (And by all means post what > > you didn't like about specific eps if you want, we'll be happy to debate > > them with ya). Or else don't. > > OK. Anything to break up the H-E-etc that has been the Fates "debate". > > I just watched Little Problems and the dialogue was just dire. Rose, I > think, has been acknowledged by all to have done a very good job. But the > Xena character seemed to lapse extremely close the "message of the day" > which nearly happened in Chariots of War and a few other eps. Usually an ep > which ends with the phrases ".... and the lessoned I learned was....". Oh > yeah, Daughter of Pomira was a good ep nearly ruined by that. Oh yes, I'm sensitive to that sort of thing and I agree, Xena did get uncomfortably close to that a couple of times. But I still like the ep. Aphrodite is always a plus, and Aph and Gabs' double turn as the Viking sisters was a hoot. And while I usually loathe cute kids with a deep and implacable loathing, I actually liked Rose McIver's performance in it, for two reasons - one, she was quite evidently having a great time playing Xena and it showed through in her performance - I found it kinda infectious. And secondly, notwithstanding her enthusiasm, she played it straight - neither she nor the director played it 'cute'. So it's an ep I can always watch. > And cr, it was not rhetorical. I have been looking through Whoosh! and > noticed that Lyre Lyre is a season 5 ep. Yay! Always a good sing-along. Okay, well, maybe my suspicions were aroused by the title of your post and the mention of 'trash'. It just sounded like you'd already prejudged it. That seems to have been a misleading impression. > I counted up 6 eps that I liked in S5. Compared to 15 I liked in S4. And 14 > in S6. > > But you can respond. Or else don't. Maybe others would like to play? > > Liz I'll always respond - well, usually - to a specific criticism (like that one of Little Problems). cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:15:36 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:04, Sojourner wrote: > > My trouble with S5 is that I wouldn't mind a montage of some enjoyable > moments - where any of the cast were either excellent or fetching. In fact > there is a music video to Ricky Martin's She Bangs which liberally uses the > dancing amazons in ... uh... Kindred Spirits? Lifeblood / Amazon High, more likely. And yeah, they were infectious in their enthusiasm. > However, I most enjoyed XWP where I could not tear my eyes away from the > screen for a 42 minute episode! Usually because of the train-wreck > unfolding before my eyes. > > So your point that it was the combination of LL, RT and RJ all firing > toegther that made the best eps - and their "absence" from S5 - well you > may just have something there. > > I remember the fall-out on the lists when Callisto got good in FA - Now that was a great disappointment for me. Rephrase that - that moment when Xena saved her was absolutely fantastic. Real emotional dynamite. Unfortunately the fall-out (to pinch your term) was that Callisto ended up neutered, wimpy, angelic and good. Which was very bad. As in Seeds of Faith. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:22:36 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Season 5 On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:39, Cheryl LaScola wrote: > I am pretty much in the same camp as Cheryl A on Season 5 getting a bad > wrap. > Of all the recent posts no one has mentioned "Livia" or "Eve" episodes. > I thought Lucy's acting was phenomenal in these 2. From her scenes with > Ares, her pain realizing she lost the chance to raise her daughter and > the fight scene with Eve in the temple, especially the sword play at the > beginning of the fight.... anyone else enjoy these eps?? > > Cheryl J I thought they were good eps, entirely watchable, certainly above average, though (IMO) not as good as Looking Death in the Eye or Motherhood, both of which were first-rate (IMO). cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:53:11 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Peekabo On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 13:30, KTL wrote: > > > Check out the size of Gabrielle and Lilla's room in Sins of the Past. > > > It's HUGE! > > > > Had quite a few rooms, too, going by the number of guests it accommodated > > (all in their own rooms) in Takes One to Know One. > > No, I'm talking about Gabrielle and Lila's room in their house. I would > have expected a tiny cramped room. But they've got a BIG space. Oh, sorry, wrong house. ;) Wasn't thinking.... SoTP is not an ep I tend to give very much attention to... > > > There's a long shot of Gabrielle crossing the courtyard. Look in the > > > background and watch for a table with a torch above it. The propane > > > tank is under the table. It's hilarious. > > > > Ah. If Gabs was in shot, I expect my concentration was wandering from > > the TV.... ;) > > > > (Sorry Gabfans, blame KT... she set me up for it :) > > No, your eyes wouldn't have been wandering from the TV--they were probably > wandering to the dancing well-boobed vampires. Were they? I never noticed. No, really. I noticed the Amazons, all right. (0) (0) > > > It's a visual metaphor for Xena's bottled rage. Strong enough to blow > > > up the whole damn tavern if she loses her tight grip on her on/off > > > coupling! (Do you know that at 40 below propane liquifies and no longer > > > makes fire?) > > > > Umm, no, that isn't usually a problem we have in Auckland. We're too > > far from the Arctic Circle.... > > Antarctic then! THAT was the one thing that totally bemused me when I was > in New Zealand. How people kept talking about the "tropical North". > Mind-blowing for us provincial North Hemisphere types. Well 'tropical North' is just a leetle bit optimistic, actually. Something Northlanders would like to believe. 'Sub-tropical North' might be a bit closer to the mark. Of course, we cosmopolitan*** Kiwis also know what is meant by the 'Frozen North'. Mounties and polar bears and all that stuff. (*** as in, 'having watched a lot of American TV' :) > > > Lot's of blue. They ALWAYS used blue. > > > > > > KT > > > > Hmm, I don't recall that. Blue - I associate with Xena's 'maternity > > cloak' in the S5 Chin eps. And Dreamworker, I think. Doesn't really > > come to mind in other eps (though I'm probably missing something....) > > Xena's dress in Chariots of war. Xena's cloak in Bitter Suite. Xena's > skirt under her red armor in BS. Ares also wears a bight blue, yes? > Gabrielle had the little blue jacket. Cyrene wears blue. There's actually > early Xena leather corsets in blue. A number of the kings had blue cloaks > though the Romans of course had red. Hmm, you're much more observant than me. Maybe I tend to notice cossies more depending on who's (nearly) wearing them. Like Meg in Soul Possession..... > Autolycus wore green (though he had the same outfit in red once, didn't > he?) Eli wore green. > > The most colorful costumes were in the eastern ones--India, Gurkhan, > Japan, etc. Xena's armour in FIN, f'rinstance. Red 'n' gold, IIRC. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 17:56:55 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 22:12, Lilli Sprintz wrote: > Ife says, > > "and (after great initial reluctance) even Fishsticks" > > > Oh, no no no no no no no no no. > > Lilli Can I add a few more "no's" to that? + (No)^26 :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 20:02:46 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:08, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/20/2003 12:33:56 AM Pacific Standard Time, > > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > I'm quite prepared to say which S5 > > episodes *I* liked - which is most of them, actually > > I ended up liking S5 better than I thought I would -- well, after some > rewatching in a few cases. Ya got Fallen Angel and Chakram, which most > folks seemed to like. God Fearing Child, Amphipolis, Cleo, Looking Death, > Livia, Eve, and Motherhood also got pretty good reviews. Some which I > liked (but didn't go over well with many folks) for the pure fun were > Animal Attraction, Lyre, Punch Lines, Kindred Spirits (at least I think > that's the one where X&G play house), and (after great initial reluctance) > even Fishsticks. > > -- Ife Maybe I will yield to the temptation of commenting on the eps. Here from memory are assorted random impressions. Fallen Angel - umm, it had its moments but I personally didn't think it justified the effort and expense they went to. (Unlike, say, The Debts, Sin Trades, or FINs). Maybe that's 'cos I have a mental block about overtly religious themes. The best performance was Hudson as the Demon Callisto (but then Hudson always was excellent, at least while she was being bad). The best moment was when angel Xena took pity on the poor defeated wretch and saved her. But really that scene belonged to Hudson (IMO). There was a line (about Kao H'sin) in 'Purity' that always sounded phony - about Kao H'sin's 'purity of hate'. But I think it applies perfectly to Callisto at that moment. She was totally defeated by Xena, and helpless, yet she continued hurling defiance at her. Marvellous. Chakram - that was fun to watch. Ares and Kal taking their time to select which weapon to bury in each other. But the best moment was Xena when she got her 'other' half back and did that joyous flip over the altar to end up holding the chacky at Ares' throat. And I did like the presence of mind of my favourite Xena associate, Amarice, dashing back to recover the chacky off the temple steps. Succession was - well, no better than a 'warlord of the week' from Season 1, IMO, but no worse. (And it was a Steve Sears ep, which proves - umm, I don't know what.) Best moment was the dangling from the vines in the cave, where it became obvious that Xena had set Mavican up. Ares: "Are you asking for my help?" And Xena's totally innocent expression as she says "She's asking for your help". Xena just had Ares calculated so precisely, she knew exactly what was going down. Animal Attraction was a bit corny for me (and the Western setting was quite bizarre. Well, maybe 10% as bizarre as Fishsticks). Had some great one-liners though, from Xena's pregnancy - "I am a love-free zone. Therefore it is utterly impossible that I be up the duff. So what's your diagnosis now? HEALER: Mood swings? and in the tavern - AMARICE Xena hey. I've been looking all over for you. I think I'm in trouble. XENA What, is it in the water? Them Bones - an entirely watchable ep, even a good one, but always overshadowed for me by Sin Trade. I liked the way Xena fooled Alti by luring her into Xena's imagination. Purity and Back in the Bottle - I actually liked quite a lot, whatever Rob thought of them. Marie Matiko I thought was great as Pao Ssu and Kao H'sin (and I never suspected it was the same actor until I read the cast list). And I don't care how corny it was, I thought Xena standing there bouncing those rockets back looked cool. As did the moment at the end of Purity (I think) when the ammo dump exploded in lots of purple and orange flame taking Kao H'sin with it, and Xena and Pao Ssu appeared through the flames walking towards Gabby. Little Problems I've mentioned in another post. Just another comedy but I found it quite engaging, even if the Tinfoil Man was hardly a frightening villain. Seeds of Faith - big disappointment. Too much odour of sanctity about it, and Zombie Callisto was 'good' the whole time. Only good bit was Ares spearing Eli. Lyre Lyre. Hated Lucy's effort at rapping, liked most of the other musical numbers, and really fell for Amoria - quite a chick. And Cyrene's efforts to fix Xena up with a man were good for a laugh. Punch Lines. Passable. Aphrodite's always good. Mini-Argo was cute. (It's okay for horse to be cute, just not kids). God Fearing Child. Yay!! A lot of people seem to not like this ep, usually on the argument that it's a 'Herc ep'. I think many people seem to have the same feelings about Herc that some do about Joxer. There also seems to be an impression abroad that there's a huge chunk of Herc history being dumped into Xena. This really isn't so. While this ep is consistent with the back-story between Herc, Zeus and Hera, that back-story is largely irrelevant to the events of God Fearing Child. Hera hated Herc and was always trying to kill him. That's all the back-story you need to know and you don't even really need that. If the Hercules series had never been made and Zeus, Hera and Herc were simply legendary characters in a guest-star role in GFC (in the same way that Anthony was in Anthony & Cleo, say), then GFC could have been written exactly the same. About one line of dialogue would have needed to be changed, that's all. I do consider it to be the true ending of the Herc series - Herc ends up killing his father Zeus. But on another level, it's viewable as an entirely Xena episode. The whole twilight-of-the-gods theme is new with GFC, it isn't a Herc theme. Meg Foster (who was only briefly seen in previous Herc eps) is marvellous as Hera. There's a great 'uh-oh' moment when Ares is seriously trying to kill Herc, and Hera appears beside him, fireball in hand and - zaps Ares. And then looks at her hand and rubs her fingers together as if she's not used to hurling fireballs. And Zeus (in about his fourth incarnation) is far more abrasive than I recall from HTLJ... "You've always held a special place in my heart, Hercules, but it's a place that can as easily be filled by your loving memory." I do love a really good threat. Eternal Bonds. Well, for me, there was too much of Gab & Joxer in this one... but the moments with Xena made up for it. Renpics have always made extremely good (and sparing) use of 'freezing' a scene, as when Gabs was in Alti's world in Them Bones, Them Bones. Here, Ares stops time for a moment while his forces are attacking Xena. I love the moment where he walks past a soldier and knocks the sword out of his hand... how _did_ they do that? The three Magi Assassins were a great joke on the viewers (specially if, like me, they were groaning "oh no, not the Three Wise Men!"). And I reckon Xena, trying to pretend she didn't have the hots for Ares in her dream, was the comic turn of the entire series. Amphipolis Under Siege. I love that brother-sister rivalry between Ares and Athena (it got even better in later eps). And the Xena-Ares seduction scene was a classic, specially when Gabs blew the wall down and Cyrene looked in disapprovingly. I did find it a bit hard to credit that the citizens of Amphipolis would go up against Athena's armies to protect Eve. And I do wish Xena had found a way to enlist Ares' aid other than by conning him and wriggling out of the deal with a bit of hairsplitting logic that would disgrace a used-car dealer ('sure it had one careful lady owner. I never said anything about the six guys who owned it since'). Married With Fishsticks. Ummm. It has been suggested that Xenafans like me would like it better if Xena was in it more. Wrong. Xenafans (at least if they're like me) are extremely relieved to be spared the embarrassment of seeing Lucy in that psychedelic bad acid trip. (Note to Rob: Check out Farscape's ep Scratch 'n' Sniff if you want to know how to do an acid trip.... : ) Next.... Lifeblood. OK, as a Xena ep, there was nothing much to recommend it. The ten minutes or so of XWP in it weren't actually *bad*, they just didn't do much. The half-hour of Amazon High, OTOH, was a fascinating glimpse of what might-have-been, and (IMO) Claudia Black, Dani Cormack and Monica McSwain all shone in it. Oh yep, and Selma Blair as the Utma was good too, when she stopped screaming a la her intellectual descendant Cleopatra (2525). I'd love to see the full AH episode, just for interest's sake. AH actually fits into the 'Xena' ambiance quite well. Much closer than Fishsticks. Kindred Spirits. One I can take or leave. It had its moments... Xena advising the Amazonettes on luurve. Or men. Or something..... Anthony & Cleopatra. This ep, for me, was made by the director. That is, the atmosphere he managed to create in the palace is what makes the ep for me. The cool, unhurried atmosphere, calm but with a hint of menace, of unseen things going on behind the scenes. And Chiana, always watchful in the background, looking as if she's prepared to trust Xena - provisionally. And of course, there was Anthony's taste in carpets ;) Just a pity (for continuity's sake) that they didn't get Gina Torres as Cleo. Josephine Davison (a regular guest star on Herc, notably as the Egyptian princess Amen-Su in City of the Dead) was a worthy fill-in who looked the part. Mention of City of the Dead brings up TPTB's time-travelling propensities.... I'm no Egypotlogist but I have a strong suspicion that Nefertiti, Amen-Su (if she was a real character) and Rameses were hundreds of years (at least) separated from the Ptolemies..... Looking Death in the Eye. Now things are really cooking. The gods (led by Athena) are determined to exterminate Eve. The rivalry between Athena and Ares is hotting up. I know that Octavian owed Xena one, but I find it a little odd that he personally would be doing undercover baby-minding duties. What I did love - and this is an unusual manifestation, in XWP, of the SNAFU factor - was Ares' completely and totally screwing up Xena's plans, by giving her and Gabrielle a respectful and reverent burial. Gotta love the irony (as Xena said to Callisto in another context). Livia and Eve. These two eps were, for me, interesting at the time, but they tend to be overshadowed in retrospect by LDITE and Motherhood. There's an interesting bit of intrigue going on between Xena, Octavian, Livia and Ares, and I'll happily watch them in sequence. But they're not highlights. Motherhood. This ep, like Sacrifice(s), is one I just love to watch. Xena killing off the gods is just so much fun to watch, it's a pity she could only do it once. (It's probably highly politically incorrect to say that, but so what?) Ares, Athena and the Furies are a delight to watch, trying to score points off each other. Eve saying "I should die for my deeds" and the Baptist saying "You're right" immediately made me think of the Magi Assassins, but it was just the writers playing with us. The ray of light that hit Xena looked just so corny, like a kiddie's nativity play... surely Flat Earth could have worked on it a bit? Anyway, the writers tweaked me again when Xena said "If that's the way it must be, then I'm ready" and I thought "NOOOO! She's *not* going to be baptised!!!" But thank Zeus (recently deceased, RIP) they were only kidding, Xena just had to kill the Olympian gods. Alex Tydings was very good as the apprehensive Aphrodite, wanting to help her friend Gabrielle but very apprehensive of Eve (and dressed in black after Heffie bought it - nice touch). And who could forget Ares' great line - "You shot me! I'm the God of War. *Nobody* shoots the God of War!" Whoo. That's it. S5 doesn't have my Most Favourite ep in it (that's Sin Trade, which is in S4, possibly my Least Favourite season;) and S5 does have my Least Favourite by a Long way ep in it (yeah, Fishsticks, what else?), but overall it still rates as my favourite season, or close to it, by virtue of the fact that there are a lot of eps I like and few clunkers (at least IMO). cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 02:57:39 -0500 From: Cousin Liz Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > I'd think you'd like Fishy, if only because it had so much of > Gabs in it. Of course, maybe it wasn't Gabs to you, like Xena > wasn't Xena for some fans in Fates. > The whole thing was so off the wall, I just made myself sit back > and enjoy the laughs. I've found I can sit and enjoy some of the more "slapstick" Xena episodes if I don't view them as "XENA" episodes while I am watching them. Still, even that didn't help for 'Fishsticks' - -- Cousin Liz eas01@fast.net Soulmates Xena Dinosaur Bards http://cousinliz.com I hope to continue to update my website over the coming weeks and months. Please check my 'What's New' page for new additions. Enjoy~ ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:52:55 +0000 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Seeds of Faith At 22:09 22/12/2003 +1300, cr wrote: > > And cr, it was not rhetorical. I have been looking through Whoosh! and > > noticed that Lyre Lyre is a season 5 ep. Yay! Always a good sing-along. > >Okay, well, maybe my suspicions were aroused by the title of your post and >the mention of 'trash'. It just sounded like you'd already prejudged it. >That seems to have been a misleading impression. PRE-judged? I have watched the entire season and it is a considered judgement. I dislike S5 as a whole - because I could only count 5 or 6 episodes I remembered liking. Last night was Seeds of Faith. I was very impressed with Tim O's performance - and also appreciated the playing out of the redeem-callisto-and-be-redeemed-by-callisto plot-line which tied nicely into the last temptation of Eli. All the resonances worked well, although a bit explicitly stated. There was also the parallel last temptation of Gabrielle, of course. The rather sensual scene where Ares demonstrates the attraction of godhood contrasted beautifully with her commitment to allowing Eli to martyr himself - and the personal grief she feels. Xena did an uncharacteristic jumping to conclusion - believing some bint in the crowd saying "she let him die" - and accusing Gabby of failing. Rather weak scripting I thought. But then X had her own grief at his death, which can often make us say things we later regret. I also remember in FA, Michael (the bastard!) saying that the Callisto personality revealed post-saving was her real personality - the one that wopuld have developed if not for the massacre in Cirra. I hope not. I would dearly have loved to see a Callisto un-shattered by tragedy, but with the usual stresses and strains of growing up and maturing as a real, perhaps more quirkier persona - not just the distilled compassion and wisdom of post-saved Callisto. Liz ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:00:23 +0000 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again At 22:15 22/12/2003 +1300, cr wrote: >On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 22:04, Sojourner wrote: > > > > > My trouble with S5 is that I wouldn't mind a montage of some enjoyable > > moments - where any of the cast were either excellent or fetching. In fact > > there is a music video to Ricky Martin's She Bangs which liberally uses the > > dancing amazons in ... uh... Kindred Spirits? > >Lifeblood / Amazon High, more likely. And yeah, they were infectious in >their enthusiasm. No - the scene where they are teaching Xena the dance - and X has that "I would rather be pulling a cactus out of my arse than doing this" look on her face. Definitely KS. > I remember the fall-out on the lists when Callisto got good in FA - >Now that was a great disappointment for me. > >Rephrase that - that moment when Xena saved her was absolutely fantastic. >Real emotional dynamite. Unfortunately the fall-out (to pinch your term) >was that Callisto ended up neutered, wimpy, angelic and good. Which was >very bad. As in Seeds of Faith. Very good. I thought. Lovely work by Hudson - very different from the high energy of old callisto - the calm, compassion and love she pours forth. Her pained understanding of Eli's fears about being martyred, how he loves the world and doens't want to leave it. Perhaps he actually feared the physical pain? Certainly his death scene, in Gabby's arms is great. No calm beautiful words. Just the sheer physical agony of having been run through by a sword! BTW doesn't Gabby pick up Ares' sword at one point? Didn't see the godhood passing to her! And the contrast when we see Eli again as ?an angel? - missing the vital spark that made him a dynamic and charismatic leader. Missing his humanity already. Liz ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:20:08 -0600 From: Lilli Sprintz Subject: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again - - -- IfeRae said, "I'm sorry, I saw "stilted" and "different" in Cande's and Lilli's comments, but I must've missed the word "lost." Is that to be assumed? " Excuse me for any hostility that comes out in this post, but my reaction to Fishticks, was beyond the word "lost". hmmmmmmm, let me put it "differently", it was, without a doubt, the most sexist of any of the Xena programs i saw over the 6 year period. another variation would be, NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.. with another exclamation point of two or three or four. it was really a horrible show. costuming was nice. but sometimes, no matter what they do, costuming doesn't help. content does. IfeRae, like you, i found that there were some programs i initially "hated" (to be a little strong here), but got to like some aspects of the episodes over the years, or even months when i got to see tapes and look at them more slowly. examples: (not all from season 5): Fins, Fems and Gems; and Key to the Kingdom however, i can't fathom wanting to forgive this episode. Lilli ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 17:58:52 -0000 From: "A. Reddecliffe" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again > > It seems like even > > in the eps that I recall disliking the most, there is always some scene, > > line, or look that actually makes it worth wild!! Seaon 5 has some real highlights and none of the "never-again-on-my-VCR" eps. It had Gabrielle's best fight scene of any season - her rope fight in Little Problems. Wonderful camerawork. What is it about her and ropes, prior to LP her previous best fight had been against Velasca in The Quest. The finale of Lyre, Lyre is about as good a "feel good" scene as you can get. Dancing in the Moonlight from the same ep does come close. Fallen Angel - big, epic, bold - who else could have pulled off such a big show? It gave us a really good new character - Athena. > Of > course, as a GabFan, I have been told that I may tend to gravitate > > towards certain eps!!! > Well, heck! I'd think you'd like Fishy, if only because it had so much of > Gabs in it. Of course, maybe it wasn't Gabs to you, like Xena wasn't Xena for > some fans in Fates. I'm a died in the wool Lucy/Xena fan, but I really admire > ROC and liked the versatility she got to show in Fishy. She seemed to be > having such fun. The whole thing was so off the wall, I just made myself sit back > and enjoy the laughs. That is pretty much the way I see Fishsticks, switch the brain off and just laugh. It does have some really funny moments in that ep. I love the fireball fight between Aphrodite and Discord on the dockside. It is best not to think too much about the plot, treat is as the addled fantasy of someone who has just been hit on the head. If we tried to make sense of things like the ring Gab was wearing at the end, then it wouldn't be funny any more. Its not Gabrielle in this or any reality, just a weird, funny fantasy. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 18:16:29 +0000 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again At 17:58 23/12/2003 +0000, A. Reddecliffe wrote: > > > It seems like even > > > in the eps that I recall disliking the most, there is always some scene, > > > line, or look that actually makes it worth wild!! > >Seaon 5 has some real highlights and none of the "never-again-on-my-VCR" >eps. > >It had Gabrielle's best fight scene of any season - her rope fight in Little >Problems. Wonderful camerawork. What is it about her and ropes, prior to >LP her previous best fight had been against Velasca in The Quest. Oh you think? I am rather partial to the fight with Varia in .... Path of Vengeance (that's not the one she directed is it?) Vicious, violent, bloody, savage. Liz ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 20:23:32 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] The full horror of season five starts again On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 18:55, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > > Of course, as a GabFan, I have been told that I may tend to gravitate > > towards certain eps!!! > > Well, heck! I'd think you'd like Fishy, if only because it had so much of > Gabs in it. Of course, maybe it wasn't Gabs to you, like Xena wasn't Xena > for some fans in Fates. I'm a died in the wool Lucy/Xena fan, but I > really admire ROC and liked the versatility she got to show in Fishy. She > seemed to be having such fun. The whole thing was so off the wall, I just > made myself sit back and enjoy the laughs. > > -- Ife My wife thought it was funny. It made me cringe. This had *nothing* to do with the absence of Xena or Lucy, I was just relieved she wasn't in it so I didn't have to be embarrassed for her. It's odd - I like Monty Python, which is fairly off-the-wall. I think what completely 'lost' me about MWF was that the premise was way-out (in fact so bizarre I couldn't think of any explanation, and still can't), but the level of humour was stock American sit-com. The two things are incompatible. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #384 **************************************