From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #358 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, December 2 2003 Volume 03 : Number 358 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Tarzan's Last Ep [Lilli Sprintz ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Tarzan & Lucy - One Last Time [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Overstock.com Xena FIN VHS and Season 2 DVD [cr ] [chakram-refugees] CURSES! FATES AGAIN! [fsktl ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:40:53 -0600 From: Lilli Sprintz Subject: [chakram-refugees] Tarzan's Last Ep Cheryl Ande said, "Well the last episode was actually the best of the series....Lucy finally got to show here sense of humor. In the scene with Jane I liked the fact that she could joke about them being partner's in crime (Jane aided while she abetted). The scene with Richard was also good. You again see Kate's humor and sarcasm emerge and even her somewhat hesitant regard for her brother. She doesn't want her brother killed but you can certainly see her frustration with her brother. I liked the scrawny neck crack and her pronouncing herself a bitch. " etc... i've watched the posting here the last several weeks, and the only thing i can add to it is that Lucy Lawless seemed stilted alot of the time. it seems as though whoever was directing or producing was doing something different, which affected her acting, different than when she was doing Xena. I remember at the beginning of Xena she was similarly hesitant, but yet still got into her character differently, more easily, and was more natural with it, so that she eventually broke open with the character. and perhaps there is that issue that she was the main character back then. she wasn't here. but i still feel that there was something different going on here. Lilli ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 00:42:12 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Tarzan & Lucy - One Last Time In a message dated 11/29/2003 9:49:35 PM Pacific Standard Time, jyoung@lava.net writes: > On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 23:26:42 EST, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > >LOL! I wondered where you were! I saw this post and knew it was you > >before I saw the addy. > > --*Well*....._some_ of us have *jobs* and are *productive citizens of > society*, ya know....;P LOL BG >. Job???? You let a mere job interfere with your Xena .... Um, I forgot. This was about Tarzan. Nevermind. > > *Huh* about the addy?? Isn't the addy in the *headers*, where you'd see > it *first*?? (thinking Ife's more delusional than normal...;) ) >> Not on AOHell. Although that has sometimes led *me* to think I was delusional. Maybe even made me delusional. > > But, I appreciate the fact that you've identified "The Jackie > Style".....;=) LOL >> But of course. > In this last (unfortunately) ep, she had finally decided to be > on the side of John and Jane, and to be their defender. She took a stand. > And *d*mn*, LL's *mighty fine* when she takes a stand. ;) I *really did* > think I saw glimpses of XWP when she said "I can be a *b*tch*". ;) > Wouldn't ALL of us have liked to see her EXPAND on that statement a bit > more?!? ;=) > > She could've done this before, but in your words, you thought she was > "leaving her options open" or sumpin' *wimpy* li'dat. ;P >> LOL! Yes, I also thought she being more of an observor, both as her character and as the audience "eyes," in terms of being initially suspicious of where Jane was coming from, while giving Richard the benefit of the doubt. I won't argue the point. I was mainly curious about your "take." I agree she seemed more decisive in this ep. > > But that's also why, when she committed to it, I thought it was > *inconsistent* with how she played the character earlier, when she > couldn't make up her mind about Jane, and now she was all of a sudden > squarely in her corner?? ;P *heh* >> Yes, I would also agree that she did not previously act as though she'd made up her mind -- about Jane, Richard, what might ultimately be best for John, or what course of action she should take. I think you're saying you'd like to have seen that much earlier, while I was okay with that evolving. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 21:56:31 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Overstock.com Xena FIN VHS and Season 2 DVD On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 10:08, Cheryl Ande wrote: > Overstock.com has the FIN VHS for $1.00 and Season 2 DVD for $41.59 and > shipping right now is a $1. > > CherylA The DVD's - are these the ones with commentaries etc on them? cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2003 23:53:51 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] OT: Sorry, testing again. Well, of course, I would've pointed that out if Daniel had given me any *guff*. ;P LOL Now my PC friends don't know what to say when we have the Mac/PC argument .....;) *heehee*! - --Jackie On Sun, 30 Nov 2003, Lee Daley wrote: > But you don't have to choose, underneath the new Macs is a good old Unix > command line. Best of both worlds I would say. > > LeeD; Warrior Jester > > > At 07:25 PM 11/29/2003 -1000, you wrote: > >On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 13:34:57 -0600, "Daniel T. Miller" > > wrote: > > > > >Stupid Windows. > > >I should just give up and switch to Linux. > > > >--Or, *Mac*. ;P > > > > > >--Jackie, Inveterate Mac User ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 13:53:46 -0900 (AKST) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] CURSES! FATES AGAIN! (fwd) Well....I sent this off yesterday and it didn't show up in my inbox. Sometimes when I put the list address in the copy slot, things don't go well. One post finally surfaced after five days one time. My apologies if this one comes up twice in your inbox. From: Brule31x63@aol.com >I'm a sucker for `When Fates Collide`; it's one of my favorite episodes. *sigh* (gods, another one...) >Naturally, coward that I am, I've stayed out of this discussion. Ooooo, now THERE'S an unusual response. ;-> What's >more, if I enter a discussion in the near future, it will be one that both KT and >I like. Which are very many indeed, dear heart. >Nonetheless, I can never pass up on an opportunity to explain something by >reference to a completely scalene interpretation which hasn't so far appeared. > Good gods Cleanthes, every damn time you write a post I have to haul out a dictionary... Scalene--like the three legs of an unequal triangle. Hmmmmmmmm >KT writes, of Xena's decision to die in `Fates`: > >> The reason is germane. It is the whole crux of the difference. There was >> no greater good being served in Xena giving up and dying in Fates. >> Nobody else was saved because she did that. In order to restore the real >> world, she needed to stay alive and figure out how to do that, for ALL the >> lives that were altered by Caesar's actions. But..what? It's too much >> trouble? She's got the vapors? Who knows? > >And I completely agree. Well of COURSE you do! It's right there on the damn screen! Caesar and Alti want to kill Xena and she goes right along with their agenda. With NO pretense, no alternative scheme in mind, no tricks. Nope, she's just willing to go along with whatever the little dears want. Gods forbid she should fight against her enemies and stop them for the greater good. Noooooo, not Xena. Well, not Fugate's Xena. > >Which is why Fates is a great episode. D'OH! (Actually, of COURSE I KNEW you felt this way. I remember the first time we discussed this on the Xenaverse. You were one of the folks who felt that nobody had lived the intervening years between that moment on the beach and the present time in the alternate timeline. That these guys just started to live when Caesar forced the Fates to be his little lap dogs and let him have his way with their silly little girly loom. I found that untenable even in the very weird arena of alternative timeline stories. Still don't buy that idea. Though I find even that easier to swallow than Xena giving up like she did in Fates.) It's the only episode where we see >the essential Xena, untempered by Hercules, Lao Ma, Salmoneus or Gabrielle. > OH OH OH OH OH! Now wait a minute...Hercules. DAMN what a BETTER story this would have been, hell it might even have begun to make a little sense if Hercules had been the person who was the catalyst for making Xena the woman she became in the series. Now THAT is intriguing. The minute I read this, it struck me as so much more right than giving Caesar that extremely important position in Xena's life. And I questioned myself on why Hercules being the agent behind Xena being the woman she is is so much more palatable than Caesar being that agent. And the reason is because Hercules was a bringer of good to Xena. He set her back on the path she had diverged from all those years ago that made her into the terrible Evil Xena creature. Caesar's influence was an aberration and a twisting of Xena's soul. Hercules' influence turned her back towards reclaiming the person she used to be and put her on her road to atonement and ultimate redemption. VERY nice. Sadly, it's not part of this story. And it's just about the only thing that might have redeemed it some, at least for me. Salmoneus? Grin. >Thus, in such a universe the existential truth will hit Xena squarely. She >will succumb to the Sickness Unto Death in Fear and Trembling, to not coin some >cool phrases... She's not in touch with the Greater Good. It's WRONG, >WRONG, WRONG. So, imagining that she cannot understand the workings of the >universe, she must suicide. > Now wait. I absolutely agree that Xena operates as an Existentialist. She always has, in terms of doing the right thing solely because it is the right thing to do. She has her own system of morality and follows that just because it is right to her. Not because her religion or her society says it's right, and not because she expects a reward in the afterlife for doing right, but just because she feels in her soul that this is right. So she chooses to live a life of fighting for the greater good, of standing up against rules that are wrong. There are numerous times in the series when she protects people from society's harsh, totally black and white interpretation of the way things must be done. As when she doesn't kill Cyrene for having killed her father. As in The Way, when she defies and interrupts the Indian custom of Sati because she doesn't believe that women should die on their husband's funeral pyre. However, Xena is not totally an existentialist because she KNOWS there is an afterlife. She's been there. Her boyfriend's been there. Hell, she and Marcus DATED in the afterlife. Another boyfriend is the God of War, for pete's sake! So that basic existential idea of a person believing there is no afterlife and that life therefore exists only on this plane, only in this manner and is complete, discrete, ephemeral and then over forever, is not part of Xena's mental construct. This therefore is not the reason that Xena decided to live a life of integrity. That leap of faith to accept that this life is all there is and to live a good life anyway was not required for Xena because she already knew there was something beyond this life. Of course with Olympus gone and most of her gods dead, the only thing Xena had to answer to was herself. And in that way, yes she operated as an existentialist. However, the main question of existentialism, do we make that leap of faith and decide that this life here and now IS worth living and worth living well or do we give up and commit suicide, that question doesn't really factor in if you do know that there is an afterlife where you do get judged and sorted out by how you've lived life here. And even in Fates, Alti says to Xena, "Those images. They're not from this life. There's something...more." And Xena agrees, "Yes, much more." So at that point, Xena is aware that the life she is living in the alternative world is not all there is either. Another life, a separate reality exists there also and thus negates the basic premise of the philosophy of existentialism for the Fates existence also. So I would disagree that Xena being an existentialist was a good reason for Xena choosing suicide in Fates. But MAINLY I would disagree that Xena would ever choose suicide-because this woman WAS our Xena in that she lived Xena's formative years. And that Xena would never ever give up to her enemies. >The following is the passage that explains the need for `Fates` in the XWP >canon just as it explains the need for Hope to turn out bad in `Maternal >Instincts` and for Gabrielle to be dragged to death. Now, now, don't exaggerate. She wasn't "dragged to death". She gets up at the end of her little cross-country jaunt. And kills Xena by kicking HER over a cliff. Dead-ha! (I've rehearsed this argument >mucho with Gabfundies, so its fun to cast KT in the Xenafundie light by using >it when the tables were turned as they were in `Fates` The word I usually use for me and people like me is "Xenaho". But then, you're far more of a gentleman than I could ever aspire to be and therefore may have trouble saying that designation. Of course you know that the difference between a Xenafundie and a Gabfundie is that Xenafundies put the emphasis on "fun", while Gabfundies put the emphasis on "die". As in "DIE, Tapert you b*stard! You plunged a knife into the heart of true fans everywhere!" I ain't never heard no Xenaho ever extrapolate loving Xena to hating real live people the way Gabfundies do. And that's what makes them specifically Gabfundies as opposed to plain old vanilla Gabfans, like you are. (NOT that Gabfans are any less rabid in their love of Gabrielle/Renee. I have fond memories of the 2001 convention and my right shoulder being re-soaked with your drool every time Renee walked over to our side of the stage. Had I not been gobsmacked by the sight of Lucy live, I might have resented that some.) .. I hope everyone >understands that I have rather more goodwill and Thanksgiving just now than I did >when arguing with the Jerry Falwellite Gabfundies back in the day) Uh...yeah-me too. Happy Thanksgiving. (wink) >Ahem, where >was I, oh, yes, the passage: > LOL! >"Long-suffering is like an emerald whose colour never varies. For no >temptation can overpower long-suffering, which always gleams with a green and >constant light; and whoso strives against it, it wins each time the honour and the >palm." Queste del Saint Graal > >Once Xena dies on the cross and threatens to storm Heaven while dead. >(`Fallen Angel` That's tempered Xena. Untempered Xena still receives martyrdom and >suffering and, of course, is restored when Gabrielle destroys the entire >universe to save her. Pretty, pretty. Gabrielle's destruction of the universe is >completely justified *because* false Xena allowed herself to die in `When >Fates Collide`. That's how wrong the Xena of Fates was, but then, so it should >be, IMO... (of course) > That may be true as a way of justifying what Gabrielle did. But it still doesn't make any sense to me that the Xena who was the pirate and who fought and killed her way to take over the throne of Rome would be a woman who would die just because her enemies wanted her to. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Granted, this Xena IS way wrong. And that's exactly why I would rather we hadn't wasted 42 minutes of the XWP series on this torpid, banal, whimpering non-Xena whinger. I am glad for your sake (and the sake of all you other whimpering Fates lovers) that you guys got this ep to savor. On a purely selfish level however, I'm sorry it ever made it onto our screens and totally dissed our hero. >Suffering is good. Well then, I must be a saint due to being driven into this constant yammering about Fates because my friends, MY FRIENDS, mind you, call me out on it. As ever though, it's always a joy to read your posts. Your comment on Hercules and the untempered Xena is one of the few truly original and fresh thoughts I've seen on Fates in a long time. And one which is very thought-provoking. And of course we have already seen a Xena who didn't have Hercules in her life. She still becomes an empress. But when she meets Gabrielle, she blithely kills her--becuase she sees her as an enemy and Xena don't surrender to no enemies, un-unh. > >Cleanthes > >In pity for my sufferings dire > Scorch me, Zeus, with heavenly fire! > Blow on me with thy breath divine -- > Serve me up with vinegar and brine. GO WASPS! >(Aristophanes the Wasps, translated by David Barrett) Were the Wasps a school vollyball team? This sounds like some cheerleader's chant. KT (blowing kisses to Cleanthes. And saying suggestively, "Hey big boy, I happen to have a ticket up for grabs for the 2004 con for the seat right next to me again. Distract your honey, and come to Burbank!) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 02:53:45 -0900 From: fsktl Subject: [chakram-refugees] CURSES! FATES AGAIN! From: Brule31x63@aol.com >I'm a sucker for `When Fates Collide`; it's one of my favorite episodes. *sigh* (gods, another one...) >Naturally, coward that I am, I've stayed out of this discussion. Ooooo, now THERE'S an unusual response. ;-> What's >more, if I enter a discussion in the near future, it will be one that both KT and >I like. Which are very many indeed, dear heart. >Nonetheless, I can never pass up on an opportunity to explain something by >reference to a completely scalene interpretation which hasn't so far appeared. > Good gods Cleanthes, every damn time you write a post I have to haul out a dictionary... Scalene--like the three legs of an unequal triangle. Hmmmmmmmm >KT writes, of Xena's decision to die in `Fates`: > >> The reason is germane. It is the whole crux of the difference. There was >> no greater good being served in Xena giving up and dying in Fates. >> Nobody else was saved because she did that. In order to restore the real >> world, she needed to stay alive and figure out how to do that, for ALL the >> lives that were altered by Caesar's actions. But..what? It's too much >> trouble? She's got the vapors? Who knows? > >And I completely agree. Well of COURSE you do! It's right there on the damn screen! Caesar and Alti want to kill Xena and she goes right along with their agenda. With NO pretense, no alternative scheme in mind, no tricks. Nope, she's just willing to go along with whatever the little dears want. Gods forbid she should fight against her enemies and stop them for the greater good. Noooooo, not Xena. Well, not Fugate's Xena. > >Which is why Fates is a great episode. D'OH! (Actually, of COURSE I KNEW you felt this way. I remember the first time we discussed this on the Xenaverse. You were one of the folks who felt that nobody had lived the intervening years between that moment on the beach and the present time in the alternate timeline. That these guys just started to live when Caesar forced the Fates to be his little lap dogs and let him have his way with their silly little girly loom. I found that untenable even in the very weird arena of alternative timeline stories. Still don't buy that idea. Though I find even that easier to swallow than Xena giving up like she did in Fates.) It's the only episode where we see >the essential Xena, untempered by Hercules, Lao Ma, Salmoneus or Gabrielle. > OH OH OH OH OH! Now wait a minute.Hercules. DAMN what a BETTER story this would have been, hell it might even have begun to make a little sense if Hercules had been the person who was the catalyst for making Xena the woman she became in the series. Now THAT is intriguing. The minute I read this, it struck me as so much more right than giving Caesar that extremely important position in Xena's life. And I questioned myself on why Hercules being the agent behind Xena being the woman she is is so much more palatable than Caesar being that agent. And the reason is because Hercules was a bringer of good to Xena. He set her back on the path she had diverged from all those years ago that made her into the terrible Evil Xena creature. Caesar's influence was an aberration and a twisting of Xena's soul. Hercules' influence turned her back towards reclaiming the person she used to be and put her on her road to atonement and ultimate redemption. VERY nice. Sadly, it's not part of this story. And it's just about the only thing that might have redeemed it some, at least for me. Salmoneus? Grin >Thus, in such a universe the existential truth will hit Xena squarely. She >will succumb to the Sickness Unto Death in Fear and Trembling, to not coin some >cool phrases... She's not in touch with the Greater Good. It's WRONG, >WRONG, WRONG. So, imagining that she cannot understand the workings of the >universe, she must suicide. > Now wait. I absolutely agree that Xena operates as an Existentialist. She always has, in terms of doing the right thing solely because it is the right thing to do. She has her own system of morality and follows that just because it is right to her. Not because her religion or her society says it's right, and not because she expects a reward in the afterlife for doing right, but just because she feels in her soul that this is right. So she chooses to live a life of fighting for the greater good, of standing up against rules that are wrong. There are numerous times in the series when she protects people from society's harsh, totally black and white interpretation of the way things must be done. As when she doesn't kill Cyrene for having killed her father. As in The Way, when she defies and interrupts the Indian custom of Sati because she doesn't believe that women should die on their husband's funeral pyre. However, Xena is not totally an existentialist because she KNOWS there is an afterlife. She's been there. Her boyfriend's been there. Hell, she and Marcus DATED in the afterlife. Another boyfriend is the God of War, for pete's sake! So that basic existential idea of a person believing there is no afterlife and that life therefore exists only on this plane, only in this manner and is complete, discrete, ephemeral and then over forever, is not part of Xena's mental construct. This therefore is not the reason that Xena decided to live a life of integrity. That leap of faith to accept that this life is all there is and to live a good life anyway was not required for Xena because she already knew there was something beyond this life. Of course with Olympus gone and most of her gods dead, the only thing Xena had to answer to was herself. And in that way, yes she operated as an existentialist. However, the main question of existentialism, do we make that leap of faith and decide that this life here and now IS worth living and worth living well or do we give up and commit suicide, that question doesn't really factor in if you do know that there is an afterlife where you do get judged and sorted out by how you've lived life here. And even in Fates, Alti says to Xena, "Those images. They're not from this life. There's something.more." And Xena agrees, "Yes, much more." So at that point, Xena is aware that the life she is living in the alternative world is not all there is either. Another life, a separate reality exists there also and thus negates the basic premise of the philosophy of existentialism for the Fates existence also. So I would disagree that Xena being an existentialist was a good reason for Xena choosing suicide in Fates. But MAINLY I would disagree that Xena would ever choose suicide-because this woman WAS our Xena in that she lived Xena's formative years. And that Xena would never ever give up to her enemies. >The following is the passage that explains the need for `Fates` in the XWP >canon just as it explains the need for Hope to turn out bad in `Maternal >Instincts` and for Gabrielle to be dragged to death. Now, now, don't exaggerate. She wasn't "dragged to death". She gets up at the end of her little cross-country jaunt. And kills Xena by kicking HER over a cliff. Dead-ha! (I've rehearsed this argument >mucho with Gabfundies, so its fun to cast KT in the Xenafundie light by using >it when the tables were turned as they were in `Fates` The word I usually use for me and people like me is "Xenaho". But then, you're far more of a gentleman than I could ever aspire to be and therefore may have trouble saying that designation. Of course you know that the difference between a Xenafundie and a Gabfundie is that Xenafundies put the emphasis on "fun", while Gabfundies put the emphasis on "die". As in "DIE, Tapert you b*stard! You plunged a knife into the heart of true fans everywhere!" I ain't never heard no Xenaho ever extrapolate loving Xena to hating real live people the way Gabfundies do. And that's what makes them specifically Gabfundies as opposed to plain old vanilla Gabfans, like you are. (NOT that Gabfans are any less rabid in their love of Gabrielle/Renee. I have fond memories of the 2001 convention and my right shoulder being re-soaked with your drool every time Renee walked over to our side of the stage. Had I not been gobsmacked by the sight of Lucy live, I might have resented that some.) . I hope everyone >understands that I have rather more goodwill and Thanksgiving just now than I did >when arguing with the Jerry Falwellite Gabfundies back in the day) Uh.yeah-me too. Happy Thanksgiving. (wink) >Ahem, where >was I, oh, yes, the passage: > LOL! >"Long-suffering is like an emerald whose colour never varies. For no >temptation can overpower long-suffering, which always gleams with a green and >constant light; and whoso strives against it, it wins each time the honour and the >palm." Queste del Saint Graal > >Once Xena dies on the cross and threatens to storm Heaven while dead. >(`Fallen Angel` That's tempered Xena. Untempered Xena still receives martyrdom and >suffering and, of course, is restored when Gabrielle destroys the entire >universe to save her. Pretty, pretty. Gabrielle's destruction of the universe is >completely justified *because* false Xena allowed herself to die in `When >Fates Collide`. That's how wrong the Xena of Fates was, but then, so it should >be, IMO... (of course) > That may be true as a way of justifying what Gabrielle did. But it still doesn't make any sense to me that the Xena who was the pirate and who fought and killed her way to take over the throne of Rome would be a woman who would die just because her enemies wanted her to. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Granted, this Xena IS way wrong. And that's exactly why I would rather we hadn't wasted 42 minutes of the XWP series on this torpid, banal, whimpering non-Xena whinger. I am glad for your sake (and the sake of all you other whimpering Fates lovers) that you guys got this ep to savor. On a purely selfish level however, I'm sorry it ever made it onto our screens. >Suffering is good. Well then, I must be a saint due to being driven into this constant yammering about Fates because my friends, MY FRIENDS, mind you, call me out on it. As ever though, it's always a joy to read your posts. Your comment on Hercules and the untempered Xena is one of the few truly original and fresh thoughts I've seen on Fates in a long time. And one which is very thought-provoking. And of course we have already seen a Xena who didn't have Hercules in her life. She still becomes an empress. But when she meets Gabrielle, she blithely kills her--becuase she sees her as an enemy and Xena don't surrender to no enemies, un-unh. > >Cleanthes > >In pity for my sufferings dire > Scorch me, Zeus, with heavenly fire! > Blow on me with thy breath divine -- > Serve me up with vinegar and brine. >(Aristophanes the Wasps, translated by David Barrett) Were the Wasps a school vollyball team? This sounds like some cheerleader's chant. KT (blowing kisses to Cleanthes. And saying suggestively, "Hey big boy, I happen to have a ticket up for grabs for the 2004 con for the seat right next to me again. Distract your honey, and come to Burbank!) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #358 **************************************