From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #322 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, October 27 2003 Volume 03 : Number 322 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] O/S Tarzan ["Jackie M. Young" ] [chakram-refugees] Lucy in USA Weekend [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Cinescape review of S2DVD [KLOSSNER9@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] O/S Tarzan [cjlnh@webtv.net (Cheryl LaScola)] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide [IfeRae@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:35:11 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:33, KTL wrote: > > Actually I don't think Xena's crucifixtion shows she is helpless. In > > the jail scene Xena says to Gabrielle that everything that happened in > > the real world happened precisely as it should. I think Xena decides > > that her crucifixtion is actually necessary. It is what happened in > > the "real" world and she now going to go through it with some idea > > that this is the path to straightening things out. > > > > CherylA > > Hey-if Fugate offered to sell you a hundred year old bridge in New > York, would you buy that too? > > All through the series we had Xena defying her fate. Gabrielle literally > says in one ep, which I can't remember at the moment and so can't watch to > get the correct quote, something along the lines of, "You have always said > that we write our own destiny" > > Xena being cruxified did NOT affect anything. Everything continued just as > it had been. The only thing that happened was that Xena accepted this > fate. However, Fugate's mealy-mouthed Gabby refused to accept that this > was their fate and thus CHANGED their fate by destroying the world and all > the people in it, to save her soulmate. Nothing changed when Xena accepted > the cross. Nothing changed until Gabrielle pulled the plug. > > Yeah, Fugate writes, "Everything happened just as it should". > > But, and this is exactly the problem I have with this episode, I don't > agree that Xena would agree that EVERYTHING happens as it should. Not the > woman she was when she was young and on that beach and not the woman whom > she grew up to be. In ANY timeline or overwriting universe. > > I don't think for example, any Xena accepts that Solon was brutally > murdered so young just because it "was meant to be". Or that Callisto had > her whole world destroyed as a young girl because Xena needed to reach > this point in her life. Xena absolutely believes in free will and > making choices. This is exactly why she takes the responsibility for > those lost souls in FIN and stays dead for their sake. > > The belief that a person cannot escape what the fates have decreed for > you, no matter what you do is purely the old Greek religious belief. No > one was ever able to escape the life that Fate wrote for them. IIRC, TPTB had the same message in HTLJ, too. Herk was always preaching that people didn't *have* to be helpless and accept what the Gods did to them, people could change things. So in that respect, TPTB were consistent in their approach. (huge snip) > > Again, I think that's part of why Xena is so quiet and somber > when they get back. She's MORTIFIED at how she acted in that > alternative life. A woman who gets the vapors when she meets her > soulmate, who gives up and lets her enemies do what they will to her, > who dies without a fight for no good reason. Gads, no wonder she doesn't > want to discuss it. > I took it as being laconic and laid back. The Butch Cassidy approach. I liked that bit best of anything in the ep. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:08:21 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] O/S Tarzan On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:44:24 -0400 (GMT-04:00), cande@sunlink.net On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:26:41 -1000 (HST), "Jackie M. Young" wrote: >>I'm glad someone else other than moi caught that phoney run up the >>stairs. ;P Where did she think she was--the Olympics?!? Or an Amazon >>training camp?!? > >Jeeze are we now going to critize how the woman climbs up and down >stairs. What didn't go up or down the stairs with sincerity or with >enough urgency - for Pete's sake they are just stairs. You can't et a >lot of emotion in stair climbing. - --Actually, the physical attitude of a character is *extremely* important in capturing their essence. ;P One of the basic exercises in acting is to "walk/move like so-and-so" (age/character/stereotype, etc.). Robert Redford once said that once he "got" a character's physical stance, he pretty much "got" that character. LL should know this; I just don't know why she forgot. ;( So, yes, how someone runs up stairs is extremely important. And the way LL did it just didn't look like the way I'd imagine Kathleen Clayton would do it. >>One thing that isn't helping is she's using her Meg voice. > >Frankly I don't hear her Meg" voice at all. It certainly isn't Xena but >I think it's just Lucy's voice. - --I'm probably the most vocal critic of LL using her Meg voice too much in XWP. Actually, you're pretty much correct about it probably just being LL's voice; it seemed that when LL didn't know what to do with a character on XWP, she'd just lapse into what I called her "Meg voice" (whiney/whispery/weak), and that probably was really something closer to her own voice, but I most frequently heard it in connection with Meg. I don't like it, and I especially didn't like it when LL was supposed to be X. And I obviously don't like it when she uses it for other characters, and certainly not for a character that could or should be stronger. >>And, she needs to make more out of the situations she's given. Like the >>car scene with Jane could've been quite charismatic or explosive, but it >>just became whiney. Same with the bedroom scene when Tarzie was having >>his temper tantrum and wanted to get outta there. She coulda acted >>more matronly, but instead got freaky-scared. > >It would be entirely out of character for Kate to suddenly be matronly. >She isn't Tarzan's mother - she is his aunt. A young aunt who was >probably just a teen-ager when he disappeared. She doesn't know this guy >and suddenly he is tearing up her house. Why wouldn't she be scared? >That's a reasonable reaction. She is probabaly thinking what the heck >have I gotten myself into. - --Although young, Kathleen is put into the position of "saving" Tarzie. She should take charge. Before she ran up the stairs, she heard the crashing sounds. She also knew he had been in the jungle and was wild. What else did she expect? For him to suddenly turn into a civilized gentleman? She's rich. The property probably doesn't mean anything to her. Her focus should be on calming him down and taking charge of the situation, not on freaking out. Also, every time she interacts with Jane, Kathleen's angry for some reason. That's fine; just give me some logical reason for being that way. Also, give me some glimpse into where Kathleen wants the relationship with Jane to go. Right now, it's all very unfocussed. ;( I agree that it's _not_ LL's show by any means. But that doesn't mean that LL can't take command of her character and make it shine......;=/ And I'm only wondering why she's not.....?? Reasons like short prep time, she's not the star, etc. don't cut it with me. In TV you're always on short prep time, and LL clearly knew up front the focus wouldn't be on her. Like I said earlier, she's a seasoned enough actress to know that she shouldn't play a character blindly, without purpose, yet it seems that's the way she's playing Kathleen.....?? ;( Just MO, - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * "Feel the fear and do it anyway." --Lucy Lawless, * * Evening Post, 7/4/98 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:48:06 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Lucy in USA Weekend The Oct. 24-26 USA Weekend Q&A column "Who's News" has a nice current candid shot of Lucy (which I haven't seen before) and a little bit about her. Deedra Reese of Ruidoso, N.M., asked, "Xena:Warrior Princess was one of my favorite TV shows. Is it true there will be a Xena movie?" Answer: "Universal has one in development, but it probably will be years before we see it. Still, you can get your Xena fix with new boxed DVD sets of the first and second seasons; companion shows Highlander and Hercules are out, too. Because all three have long been reader favorites, we checked in on the stars." It then goes on to say about Lucy, "Lucy Lawless, 35, is Tarzan's aunt in the WB's new Sunday drama. 'Xena was the greatest gig I ever had,' she says, 'but [Tarzan[ is also pretty excellent.' She is awed by Xena's staying power. 'I'm a lot smaller than I was, and my hair is fairer. Now people say, 'Are you really Xena?'" - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:47:01 EST From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Cinescape review of S2DVD Cinescape, a magazine that seems very sure of its own cleverness, has a brief review of the Season 2 DVD in its Oct/Nov 2003 issue, p. 76. The review by one Arnold T. Blumberg gives the DVD a modest three stars; their rating system goes from one to five. The reviewer says-- It's rare for a spin-off to surpass its progenitor, but by the time Xena entered its second year, it was already becoming a pop cultural phenomenon with far more impact than the parent series Hercules. The relationship between Xena and her sidekick Gabrielle is just starting to grow into the subtext-heavy partnership that thrilled men and gay female viewers alike, the action is top-notch, and the mythology grows by leaps and bounds with arch-foe Callisto, bumbling Joxer and suave Autoloycus; this is a series discovering how great it will truly become. I think the review is more positive than the three-star rating. This is apparently because the reviewer admires the third season more and wanted to leave some room to reflect that when the third season DVd comes out. My own view is that the second season was the best in the series, that the third season was catastrophic because of the sado-masochistic emphasis on Evil Xena, and that the series never recovered. Boeotian ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 22:29:54 -0500 (EST) From: cjlnh@webtv.net (Cheryl LaScola) Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] O/S Tarzan Following the thread of the LL critiques the last few weeks, I will stand by my hypothesis that Lucy was inserted into a few early already taped episodes. After watching tonight, this seemed like the first time the episode was fluent with Lucy as a developing role. I also found the characters in general finally took on more depth tonight. The story line and acting was much better. I thought Lucy played the role of concerned aunt very well and you can see the relationship (and trust) starting to build between Tarzan and Aunt Kate. Perhaps it has turned the corner and can develop into a decent series. BTW I watched the rerun at 5 p.m. and IMO Lucy's run up the stairs was perfectly natural to me. Loud crashing would make me hurry too! She did go up to calm him down and took the quickest route.... 2 stairs at a time. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:14:30 EST From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide In a message dated 10/26/2003 12:59:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: KT wrote: > > > >Again, I think that's part of why Xena is so quiet and somber > >when they get back. She's MORTIFIED at how she acted in that > >alternative life. A woman who gets the vapors when she meets her > >soulmate, who gives up and lets her enemies do what they will to her, > >who dies without a fight for no good reason. Gads, no wonder she doesn't > >want to discuss it. > > > > I took it as being laconic and laid back. The Butch Cassidy approach. > I liked that bit best of anything in the ep. > > I loved that bit as well, though I interpreted it a little differently. It reminded me of when Eli brought them back in Fallen Angels. They were stunned, disoriented, reeling from horrific events, yet gratefully awed that they'd not only survived, but gotten back to their "real selves." You know how you handle a delicate, priceless object that you've suddenly discovered? You kind of hold your breath, caught between belief because it's in your hands, and wonder that it's actually there. The joy is tempered a little by fear that if you jump up and down, you might destroy both the moment and the thing itself. That's how I saw their restrained, "everyday" response. Acting "like normal" - -- on one hand very aware of how abnormal events had threatened the love they'd taken for granted, yet bolstered at finding out once again that it would triumph over anything thrown its way. I thought it was a wonderfully conceived and performed counterpoint to the "false" fragility and certainty they chose to give up in CaesarLand. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #322 **************************************