From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #318 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, October 23 2003 Volume 03 : Number 318 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Discovery channel phone number ["H.J.J. Hewitt" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide [] [chakram-refugees] Tangential Content [meredith ] Re: [chakram-refugees] OS: Tarzan [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide [] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:08:40 -0500 From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Discovery channel phone number When I called 240-662-2000, the number that had been posted here, the lady referred me to 859-342-8439 where I was able to get my recommendation of WARRIOR WOMEN recorded for consideration by the programming department. TEXena ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:26:41 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] OS: Tarzan On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:27:49 EDT, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: >No, I'm not too hopeful about all this. By the time Lucy figures out how >her character should run up stairs, it may not really matter. Whatever >optimism I have is based on her, and I just don't see that her screen >time, lines, colleagues, or context will provide much help. - --Nah, nah, nah, nah. ;P I _toldja_ she was pretty bad, Ife. ;P (And not that I'm _hoping_ she is--them's just "the facts". ;( ) I'm glad someone else other than moi caught that phoney run up the stairs. ;P Where did she think she was--the Olympics?!? Or an Amazon training camp?!? Although I agree *our grrrl* doesn't have a lot of screen time, she's gotta make lemonade outta lemons. A XWP teaser lasts all of 5 mins., so she's captivated us in that amount of time before. And IMO she doesn't need a lot of time to do it. But for some reason she's not doing it. ;( One thing that isn't helping is she's using her Meg voice. When she uses her Meg voice, that usually means to me that she's rudderless; she's just going by her own instincts or personality. She should stop that. ;P All during the greenhouse scene with Tarzie she was using her Meg voice, and she just seemed so phoney to me when she did that; there's no committment in that sort of voice. And, she needs to make more out of the situations she's given. Like the car scene with Jane could've been quite charismatic or explosive, but it just became whiney. Same with the bedroom scene when Tarzie was having his temper tantrum and wanted to get outta there. She coulda acted more matronly, but instead got freaky-scared. Not a clear or strong enough motivation. And even though MD had a point that the X-F character was written for LL, she won't always have the luxury of those situations, so she should just learn how to adapt. ;P The X-F character had only the teaser time to captivate us, and IMO LL did a very good job of that one. She needs to do the same for the Kathleen Clayton character. >However, unlike MD, I will try to be there for those few minutes. Seems >Glass Half Full can also make me a glutton for punishment. - --*He!* What we do for Lucy.......;) - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:36:45 +0300 From: Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide > In a message dated 10/21/2003 6:34:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > > > So I would say that enslaving yourself to the destiny the Fates weave > > for you is most definitely no part of Xena's philosophy. > > > > Yes, Xena was meant to be a warrior in this life as she learns from > > Krishna. And any steps that made her that warrior were important. But > > other steps could just as well lead to her becoming that warrior also. I > > think "Everything happens precisely as it should" can work if it refers > > more to broad strokes than to details. > > I happen to agree with this. Are you saying "Fates" contradicts your > interpretation of that line? Do you believe Xena was referring only to the > crucifixion when she said that? > > -- Ife > I'm sorry for jumbing in but I believe Xena thinks more her present when she said "everything precisely as it should" than a something general like her destiny as a warrior. They came to an end and they couldn't go back to their lives. But they knew who they were so... everything happens precisely as it should: she dies to save Gabrielle and their souls even in this "wrong" world. Gabrielle didn't accept this and turn things to be precisely as it should. Sophia ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:13:08 -0400 From: meredith Subject: [chakram-refugees] Tangential Content Hi, News today that the musical guest when LL hosted "Saturday Night Live", Elliott Smith has committed suicide: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031022/ap_en_mu/obit_elliott_smith_5 Very, very sad. He was a great musician. =============================================== Meredith Tarr New Haven, CT USA mailto:meth@smoe.org http://www.smoe.org/meth =============================================== Live At The House O'Muzak House Concert Series http://muzak.smoe.org =============================================== ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:31:29 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] OS: Tarzan In a message dated 10/22/03 2:27:24 AM Central Daylight Time, jyoung@lava.net writes: << On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:27:49 EDT, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: >No, I'm not too hopeful about all this. By the time Lucy figures out how >her character should run up stairs, it may not really matter. Whatever >optimism I have is based on her, and I just don't see that her screen >time, lines, colleagues, or context will provide much help. --Nah, nah, nah, nah. ;P I _toldja_ she was pretty bad, Ife. ;P (And not that I'm _hoping_ she is--them's just "the facts". ;( ) I'm glad someone else other than moi caught that phoney run up the stairs. ;P Where did she think she was--the Olympics?!? Or an Amazon training camp?!? >> LOL! Well, the good part (heh) of this is that maybe only we Lucy fans are giving such microscopic examination to her voice or how she runs up the stairs. "Normal" or "average" isn't necessarily bad to those who aren't expecting "extraordinary." - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:31:27 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide In a message dated 10/22/03 5:26:45 AM Central Daylight Time, sgitzou@periaktoi.gr writes: << > In a message dated 10/21/2003 6:34:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > > So I would say that enslaving yourself to the destiny the Fates weave > > for you is most definitely no part of Xena's philosophy. > > > > Yes, Xena was meant to be a warrior in this life as she learns from > > Krishna. And any steps that made her that warrior were important. But > > other steps could just as well lead to her becoming that warrior also. I > > think "Everything happens precisely as it should" can work if it refers > > more to broad strokes than to details. > > I happen to agree with this. Are you saying "Fates" contradicts your > interpretation of that line? Do you believe Xena was referring only to the > crucifixion when she said that? > > -- Ife > I'm sorry for jumbing in but I believe Xena thinks more her present when she said "everything precisely as it should" than a something general like her destiny as a warrior. They came to an end and they couldn't go back to their lives. But they knew who they were so... everything happens precisely as it should: she dies to save Gabrielle and their souls even in this "wrong" world. Gabrielle didn't accept this and turn things to be precisely as it should. Sophia >> Sophia! Thank the gods you came out of hibernation to help us! Ooo, I like! Yes, yes, yes! This explains why Xena's death doesn't save anything. I think KT is justifiably upset about Xena's doing this, as it does seem to make those blasted crosses so significant and seems to suggest that Xena is giving in to "sacrifice for love," instead of fighting for it. Gabs is the one who sets things right (even if unwittingly) by doing what Xena usually did -- taking their fate in her own hands, not accepting defeat, searching for other choices, going with her heart as opposed to debating the pros and cons. I could kiss you! Now I realize why I've been arguing with KT, even tho I perfectly understand her disbelief in the characters we got and the philosophy they seemed to represent. Yes, I gave these characters a chance and even saw as much "evidence" for their believability as "evidence" that they weren't credible. But that's not what kept niggling me or gave me such mixed emotions. I simply wasn't convinced that the superficial aspects (characters, mushiness, "idealism") was what we're ultimately supposed to take away from "Fates." If that were the case, then Xena's sacrifice on the cross would've changed things back -- suggesting the "rightness" of accepting that fate, of her expressing her love by dying and of her being the washed out version of her "true" self that KT hates so much. But, as you say, that's *not* what was "right." Xena's acquiescence and sacrifice changed nothing. Gabrielle's refusal to accept Xena's acquiescence and sacrifice is what changed things back. Again, I don't want to argue whether any of that was characteristic or made sense. I'm not arguing that this is the most fantastic, well plotted, etc. ep of all time. I'm saying only that the way it ends tends to undermine the "rightness" of nearly everything we saw, regardless of how "credible" it was and tends to prove much of what KT says would've been "right." And I agree with KT about that. I don't expect KT to like or see the sense in an ep devoted to what was "wrong." I can see why she believes (I think) that Fugate meant to give credence to what we saw. This helps me understand why, instead, I've come to think Fugate did a masterful job romanticizing what was "wrong," while ultimately showing what was "right." And once again, my dear, I have you to thank for saying in a few words what it takes me pages to get out. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 01:58:36 +0300 From: Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide >Ife wrote: >This explains why Xena's death doesn't save > anything. I think KT is justifiably upset about Xena's doing this, as it does > seem to make those blasted crosses so significant and seems to suggest that Xena > is giving in to "sacrifice for love," instead of fighting for it. Gabs is > the one who sets things right (even if unwittingly) by doing what Xena usually > did -- taking their fate in her own hands, not accepting defeat, searching for > other choices, going with her heart as opposed to debating the pros and cons. Xena did fight for her love. But don't forget that she is another Xena. She saw her past self but only saw it. She couldn 't remember it as a memory, as a feeling. Both of them knew who they were. That knowledge explained to them that chemistry and that sudden love they felt. But the only true feeling they knew is this love in this world. What we see is Xena's life without crucifixion on the beach and that life is very different and the person who come from this life is a different person. But a life without crucifixion isn't the right life, the life that it was meant to be. Something came wrong and that's why can be solved. And the wrong thing happened not the time before crucifixion but 30 years later while Xena and Gabrielle continued their lives. That's why we find them seperate in the end and then they united and talk about that as a memory this time. Gabrielle was a brave woman even before she met Xena in her true life. So that didn't change. She didn't give up in this wrong life as she didn't give up on the "Ides of March". See, Xena's life had more changes with this problem than Gabrielle's. > I simply wasn't convinced that the superficial aspects (characters, > mushiness, "idealism") was what we're ultimately supposed to take away from "Fates." > If that were the case, then Xena's sacrifice on the cross would've changed > things back -- suggesting the "rightness" of accepting that fate, of her > expressing her love by dying and of her being the washed out version of her "true" > self that KT hates so much. But, as you say, that's *not* what was "right." > Xena's acquiescence and sacrifice changed nothing. Gabrielle's refusal to > accept Xena's acquiescence and sacrifice is what changed things back. > Gabrielle felt that there was something she could do and she had the opportunity to do it. Xena didn't have it. They acted without trying to change things anymore. Xena was dying and fates told Gabrielle that it was dangerous that she was going to do. They both wanted to do something, a try, a reaction in this mess, in their wrong life. When Gabrielle set up the fire didn't know if she corrected the things. She just wanted to do something as Xena did. In this wrong world Gabrielle didn't accept the death of Xena and she died too. Sophia > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #318 **************************************