From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #301 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, October 9 2003 Volume 03 : Number 301 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena's wild streak [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] <> (fwd) [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide [cande@sunlink.net] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Tarzan: Initial response [Meredith Tarr ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:46:36 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 01:56, cande@sunlink.net wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: cr > > Huh? I can't answer for lfe, but I don't get upset when Xena gets beat > up. Y'know, I don't mind the battle in FIN or the fight in Between the > Lines, at all. Great stuff. Or the crucifixions in Destiny or Ides. > I cringe a bit in The Way, simply 'cos it's a bit horrific, but I don't > object to it. I don't care for the fight in Crusader, not because of any > 'ethical' objections so to speak, but simply 'cos I don't believe a little > girl like Najara could lay a finger on Xena. I hate Gurkhan, and to a > lesser extent dislike Xena *allowing* herself to be crucified in WFC, > because it shows Xena as helpless. That, I don't like at all. > > Actually I don't think Xena's crucifixtion shows she is helpless. In the > jail scene Xena says to Gabrielle that everything that happened in the real > world happened precisely as it should. I think Xena decides that her > crucifixtion is actually necessary. It is what happened in the "real" > world and she now going to go through it with some idea that this is the > path to straightening things out. > > CherylA But at this stage Xena doesn't know about the 'real' world does she? Or was that one of the bits that Alti's vision showed her? Anyway, as it happened, Xena's crucifixion wasn't necessary, Gabs zapping the Fates' loom was the trick. I think KF just thought Ides was cool, that's why we got the crucifixion. ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 20:48:37 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena's wild streak On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:11, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/7/03 4:41:08 AM Central Daylight Time, > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > << > Or, you could redefine your concept of such timeline alterations,to > include > > > forces (e.g., X&G's love) which can't be altered no matter how someone > > tries to tamper with them. Much easier to skip over plot holes, once > > you let go of all preconceptions, "sci-fi canon" or "logic." > > > > --Ife > > Well, that might work for a subtexter, of course. :) > > > Okay, then substitute Xena's honor and need to fulfill her destiny as a > hero. How's that work for ya as something unalterable by human or god? > > -- Ife Yeah, that would work but I still don't see how it obligates Xena to allow herself to be crucified. Or am I losing the thread a bit here? cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:34:45 +1300 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] <> (fwd) On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 19:14, KTL wrote: ("It needed a fight"): > > > > Oh, I did like that line though. Nice external reference to Rob's known > > preferences. > > Yeah I LOVED it. That line wasn't in the script by the way. Fugate pouted > a bit at the con last year about them sticking it in there. Huh? Best line in the ep! cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:51:55 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: cande@sunlink.net Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: When Fates Collide - -----Original Message----- From: cr Yeah she knows that the world she is living isn't the one she was meant to live in and she knows Caesar has changed fate. Well Xena doesn't know Gabby was about wreak the loom. Perhaps if she knew Gabby was out to zap the loom whe would have tried to escape or something. Probably but also I think she wanted to keep the connection between Caesar's destiny and Xena's destint=y as being intertwined so that when Xena is crucified, Caesar is betrayed and murdered. CherylA cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:21:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Meredith Tarr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Tarzan: Initial response Hi, Ife wondered: > Okay, that brings up another issue. Originally, > this was more of a > "private," "invitation only" list, right? I > certainly was careful not to say anything > about it, before contacting Meredith. I suspect > quite a few of us are also on > Flawless, which spawned a Tarzan list. Does it > matter anymore if others know > about C-R? What about cross-posting with the other > two lists? I would prefer that this list remain invitation-only, especially now that there are new things to discuss WRT _Tarzan_ et al. The policy has worked well so far to keep this a vital list with a high signal-to-noise ratio, and I see no reason to change it. As for cross-posting, that's ok. It happens already anyway -- not surprisingly, Sharon cross-posts much of what she posts here. :) It leads to my inbox getting filled with bounces when people on the other lists hit "reply-all" to send their reply to Flawless or wherever, but that's fine -- I just delete them and they go away without ever cluttering things up here. > As we move on to other discussions (e.g., > LL&ROC's careers, Warrior > Women, movies, maybe even Tarzan), I'm hoping folks > will continue indulging > those of us who keep beating what refuses to be a > dead horse. I'm with you on that one all the way. :) Meredith meth@smoe.org __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:43:39 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Xena's wild streak In a message dated 10/8/2003 5:32:01 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > > >Okay, then substitute Xena's honor and need to fulfill her destiny as a > >hero. How's that work for ya as something unalterable by human or god? > > > >-- Ife > > Yeah, that would work but I still don't see how it obligates Xena to allow > herself to be crucified. Or am I losing the thread a bit here? > > cr > Thread? What thread? Anyway, I wasn't dealing with the crucifixions. Not my thing. I was merely rationalizing how Alti could show Xena events that wouldn't have happened in typical time warp scenarios. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:43:41 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] (WAS Xena's Wild Streak) Actually FATES, dammit! In a message dated 10/8/2003 3:16:51 AM Central Daylight Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > I repeat the absolute worst thing about Fates is Xena giving up. The > second worst is the idea that Ceasar created Xena. That he was the > absolute catalyst for the woman she became. I will NEVER accept > that view. Xena created herself. And re-created herself when she needed > to. Getting nailed to Caesar's cross is not the defining characteristic of > Xena to me. Getting away from getting nailed to Caesar's cross is much > closer to the woman she was when she was 17 and the woman she should be in > any future that includes that past. > I didn't see Xena as "giving up" in Fates, but that's another issue. I do agree with you about Caesar and the crucifixion stuff. RT could try to sell the Christ-like angle all he wants, and I wouldn't buy it. Xena was the wrong person for that, no matter how altruistic she ended up. As I've argued with cr, I also don't see Ceasar as the direct catalyst for Xena's turn to evil. She seemed ambivalent about her feelings and future course, until M'Lila's death. Yes, M'Lila was killed by Caesar's soldiers. But if the two women had managed to escape unharmed, Xena might not have dedicated herself to destroying everything in sight. Frankly, I hadn't even given much thought to the "Caesar made Xena" thing until you pointed it out. I saw it as another of those defining events when Xena could've chosen to respond differently. If RT did intend to make Caesar/crucifixion *the* defining catalyst, without which Xena would've been an entirely different person, then I'm with you on shrugging it off RT's Xena, but not mine. - -- Ife - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 18:47:29 +0100 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] US Warrior Women Doc Help At 04:15 08/10/2003 -0400, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 10/7/2003 2:07:20 PM Central Daylight Time, >a.reddecliffe@ntlworld.com writes: > > > I don't know about anywhere else, but it is starting in the UK next > > Wednesday (October 15th @ 9pm, Discovery Channel) for 5 weeks. The episode > > listed for next Wednesday is Joan of Arc. The British magazines are all > > carrying listings for it and Lucy has been in some of the UK magazines. > > Hope that helps. > > > > Thanks. It would help more if all that were happening in the U.S. >We're not used to this! > >-- Ife (repressing the urge to throw a good ol' 'Merican tantrum) Thanks heavens - world peace is dodgy enough as it is! And as a kiwi without XWP while you all had it - hahahahahahahahahah!! Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:58:33 -0400 From: "mirrordrum" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Tarzan: Initial response > > As we move on to other discussions (e.g., > > LL&ROC's careers, Warrior > > Women, movies, maybe even Tarzan), I'm hoping folks > > will continue indulging > > those of us who keep beating what refuses to be a > > dead horse. dead horse? DEAD HORSE? you suggest that Xena Warrior Princess could *ever* be a dead horse? a voice from the back calls: "hewesy! HEWESY!!! whewe's dexon? dwess this hahlot Ife in wawwiow pwincess castoffs and call foah dexon and his dwiftwood." md--muttering, fuming and preparing to go buy a bic (that's a lighter for them as isn't from the US--what's left of it) and the best part, the *best* part is that she might be rescued by, heh heh, gabrielle. oh, that's much much better than burning, now i think on't. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:59:42 EDT From: Sekhmet209@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Tarzan: Initial response In a message dated 10/7/03 6:15:22 PM, IfeRae@aol.com writes: >Okay, that brings up another issue. Originally, this was more of a >"private," "invitation only" list, right? I certainly was careful not >to say anything >about it, before contacting Meredith. I suspect quite a few of us are >also on >Flawless, which spawned a Tarzan list. Does it matter anymore if others >know >about C-R? What about cross-posting with the other two lists? I like the idea of keeping the list private (it keeps out the riffraff who tend to post only inanities-- er, except for me, that is ), but I see no reason why subjects other than Xena can't be discussed, as long as people talk about Xena too. - --Sekhmet ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:03:56 -0400 From: "mirrordrum" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Tarzan: Initial response meredith, you're such a gem. our thoughts on the subject are as one. one of the reasons i spent so much time on chakram and the only reason i stay here now, is that it's a small group that doesn't flame and, except for me on occasion, doesn't converse in garble, invective and inanities. and also b/c i enjoy reading cheryl's reveiws of the eps so much and the threads that go on. i enjoy thinking about the discussions tho i generally haven't the wherewithal to post what i think. or by the time i do, the thread's gone by. but i do reflect on them as a break from considering that other, tiresome reality that swamps my inbox. this really is a great group for which i have the most profound affection. md - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meredith Tarr" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:21 AM Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Tarzan: Initial response > Hi, > > Ife wondered: > > > Okay, that brings up another issue. Originally, > > this was more of a > > "private," "invitation only" list, right? I > > certainly was careful not to say anything > > about it, before contacting Meredith. I suspect > > quite a few of us are also on > > Flawless, which spawned a Tarzan list. Does it > > matter anymore if others know > > about C-R? What about cross-posting with the other > > two lists? > > I would prefer that this list remain invitation-only, > especially now that there are new things to discuss > WRT _Tarzan_ et al. The policy has worked well so far > to keep this a vital list with a high signal-to-noise > ratio, and I see no reason to change it. > > As for cross-posting, that's ok. It happens already > anyway -- not surprisingly, Sharon cross-posts much of > what she posts here. :) It leads to my inbox getting > filled with bounces when people on the other lists hit > "reply-all" to send their reply to Flawless or > wherever, but that's fine -- I just delete them and > they go away without ever cluttering things up here. > > > As we move on to other discussions (e.g., > > LL&ROC's careers, Warrior > > Women, movies, maybe even Tarzan), I'm hoping folks > > will continue indulging > > those of us who keep beating what refuses to be a > > dead horse. > > I'm with you on that one all the way. :) > > Meredith > meth@smoe.org > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search > http://shopping.yahoo.com > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:36:08 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] TV Guide Xena mentions The TV Guide for October 11-17 has two Xena mentions. First Tarzan page 101; "Ai-yi-yi-ti! Xena's Lucy Lawless joins the cast as Tarzan's aunt Kathleen, a publishing titan embroiled in a power struggle for control of Graystoke Industries." Theb Masterpiece Theatre: "ER's Alex Kingston plays Boudica, Britian's "Warrior Queen" slaying Roman legions with Xena-like zeal in this brooding, fact-based drama." CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:00:41 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Warrior Women Looks like the US Discovery Channel hasn't picked up Warrior Women as of yet. I guess we need to contact Discovery Channel about this. It takes bit of hunting around to do this via the web but go to Discovery Channel web site and click on About This Site and you will find the Contatct Us link. You have to file out a bunch info when asked what show you are writing about just select other. Perhaps our Canadian neighbors will join us since everyone will be bothering them for tapes or at least info on ordering the tapes of the show if they are offered. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #301 **************************************