From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #278 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, September 20 2003 Volume 03 : Number 278 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] [OT] Warrior Queen (Boadicea) [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Hudson at TVGuide.com! [] [chakram-refugees] Boudica DVD ["mirrordrum" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Hudson at TVGuide.com! ["S. Wilson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:02:33 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] [OT] Warrior Queen (Boadicea) Yes, that's the one. I recall now, British-Romanian co-production, shot in Romania. How ironic. (Romans - Romania - get it? ;) The Poms seem to do these desperate-women-in-battles quite well. I still remember Billie Whitelaw in 'Culloden', many years ago. cr On Friday 19 September 2003 01:23, S. Wilson wrote: > I think there were a couple other by the same title produced in the UK? > This one, however, is the only one I know of starring Alex Kingston. *s* > Just from what they told me when they were in those wee early early stages > of putting it together, it sounded fantastic. Large budget, shot in Romania > I think (it's been so long I can't remember, and I lost the correspondences > when my last computer crashed). > > Here's a link (look at that picture and tell me you won't be watching): > > http://www.pbs.org/previews/EMMTWarriorQueen/ > > I can't wait. > > Steph ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 21:19:20 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #261 On Friday 19 September 2003 15:36, Daniel T. Miller wrote: > > I think she just simply snapped. > > There is no other explanation for her talking to the dead Ming as if > > he were > > alive when Gabrielle comes back for her. Xena is nearly in a state of > > shock when Gabrielle leads her away. > > Yeah, I remember when that first was shown and > many of us (well, me:~) on lists were going "huh?". > > But I looked at it later in slow motion and saw that > his eyes were moving about as the camera rolled around him. > > I assumed the intention was she was talking to him as he was > slowly dying. A lot creepier idea than talking to dead Ming. > And makes more sense. Hmm, I like that idea. It makes more sense to me than Xena talking to a dead guy just to fool Gabs. And more sense than that Xena's just 'snapped', sorry Cande I can't believe that. Of course, having ones brain skewered is usually instantaneous.... but not invariably. Maybe Xena knew the right place to skewer him. It would actually fit as a payback for Ming's slow killing of his mother. Creepy. :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 21:24:49 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] "Charming" homage to Xena On Friday 19 September 2003 15:35, Daniel T. Miller wrote: > Is there a name for when there are many ways to interpret > a idea, a character, or a myth--but one interpretation makes > such an impression that it becomes the standard interpretation? > > Am I explaining this right? Yes, absolutely. > The only two example that come to me are > Santa and Sherlock Holmes. I think there's another - Frankenstein's monster, as interpreted by Boris Karloff. Ever afterwards, any monster or zombie looked more or less Frankenstein-ish. > Most of what how we accept Santa looks like > comes from the illustrator of the poem, > "The Night Before Christmas." > > Doyle never wrote that deerstalker outfit in a story. > The original Strand illustrator designed the Holmes look. > > The big curve red pipe seen in so many interpretations > of Holmes was there, because the actor that first played > Holmes found that was the easiest pipe to work with > on stage. > > I remember when first seeing the Jeremy Brett version of > Holmes on PBS Mystery, how strange it was to see Brett > use the historically accurate straight pipe that looked like > a tall corncob. It looked wrong, it looked like something > Huck Finn should be smoking. I didn't know that, but you're absolutely right. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 06:55:56 -0400 (EDT) From: Subject: [chakram-refugees] Hudson at TVGuide.com! Check out this interview w/ Hudson at tvguide.com!! :) http://www.tvguide.com/news/insider/030918c.asp -Sarah, aka the abbagirl- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:01:41 -0400 From: "mirrordrum" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Boudica DVD well, that's the way *they* spell it. it was in my acorn catalogue. i knew i'd seen it. https://www.acornonline.com/results.aspx?by=All&for=boudica md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:56:51 -0500 From: "S. Wilson" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Hudson at TVGuide.com! I would LOVE to see Hudson delving into a baddy role on Angel. Oh, sweetness. Someone on a Buffy-related list I'm on mentioned that it's a shame she was never on Buffy as a bad 'cause she had that delicious brand of evil goin' on for Callisto. I agree. Something about Callisto was so very, very wrong and yet so fascinating and exciting, and while a huge part of that was the writing, it never would have come into sharp focus as it did without someone slipping into the part with so much gusto like Hudson did. Obviously she can pull off naughty (and then some). ;) I hope she gets to appear. Steph At 06:55 AM 9/19/2003 -0400, abbagirl@cyberspace.org wrote: >Check out this interview w/ Hudson at tvguide.com!! :) > >http://www.tvguide.com/news/insider/030918c.asp > > > > -Sarah, aka the abbagirl- ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:15:35 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #261 In a message dated 9/19/03 4:24:08 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << On Friday 19 September 2003 15:36, Daniel T. Miller wrote: > > I think she just simply snapped. > > There is no other explanation for her talking to the dead Ming as if > > he were > > alive when Gabrielle comes back for her. Xena is nearly in a state of > > shock when Gabrielle leads her away. > > Yeah, I remember when that first was shown and > many of us (well, me:~) on lists were going "huh?". > > But I looked at it later in slow motion and saw that > his eyes were moving about as the camera rolled around him. > > I assumed the intention was she was talking to him as he was > slowly dying. A lot creepier idea than talking to dead Ming. > And makes more sense. Hmm, I like that idea. It makes more sense to me than Xena talking to a dead guy just to fool Gabs. And more sense than that Xena's just 'snapped', sorry Cande I can't believe that. >> I was on alt.tv.xena at the time of the Debt airing. Somebody (sounded like a 13-year-old) offered the "vegetative state" hypothesis, which I also liked as a great way to 'splain Xena's talking to Ming, her statement that she didn't have to murder him, and a delicious homage to Lao Ma's own method for keeping her victims helpless but alive. Unfortunately, somebody on the Xenastaff said that the actor's eyes weren't supposed to move like that at the end, which negated the vegetative theory from an "official" perspective. I've since had to entertain other ideas about what happened, but the vegetative one is still my favorite. Long live 13-year-olds! - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 21:25:36 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] The Price I watched The Price again tonight. It is still a great episode. This is what I wished every Xena episode could be: action, great story telling and wonderful characterizations. Lucy is magnificent as Xena - the warrior who when faced by an implacable enemy nearly loses her newfound humanity. ROC is equally as good as Gabrielle who doesn't fear the Horde half as much as she fears losing Xena to the amorality of war. When I first started writing commentaries I wrote one on the Price and it was one of my better ones so hoping not to bore anyone I am going to repost that one. ****** The Price is the best stand-alone episodes in the series. Great direction by Oley Sasson, a wonderfully written script, a great rift on the dehumanizing effects of war and a terrific acting job by Lucy Lawless. This episode is I think is foremost a wonderful character study of Xena under stress. As we all know this episode deals with the Horde, a mysterious and savage tribe of warriors who once butchered Xena's troops. Xena now encounters them again. Out of the blue they interrupt a relaxing fishing trip with Gabrielle. Xena when confronted by these warriors does the unexpected, she grabs Gabrielle and she runs for her life. She doesn't fight them - she flees. She grabs a canoe and paddles like hell. Gabrielle is clearly terrified at this unexpected turn of events and we see Xena, though seemingly stoic, with real fear in her eyes. It is how she deals with this fear that becomes the crux of the story. As we said Xena's first instinct is to flee these warriors. As she confesses to Gabrielle she doesn't understand these men. She doesn't know what they want or why they fight - all she knows is that they are incredibly savage and she can't fight them. This must be a terrible blow to Xena's warrior pride - she can't fight, and flight is the only possibility. Soon that seems impossible too as the Horde relentlessly pursues them down river. But salvation is at hand in the form of a beleaguered and demoralized band of Athenian soldiers. Cut off and surround these men have given up but when Xena sees them she is heartened. Now she has something to do besides running. She knows what to with an army but the only trouble is the good Xena has never commanded an army before. So Xena resurrects the dark Xena and goes to work. She bullies the soldiers into resuming their neglected duty, her reputations buoys them, and in an over the top "kill'em all" speech, she gives these defeated soldiers hope that they can prevail. In a brilliantly executed ambush she leads the soldiers to a victory and as they chant "Xena" she actually preens - she is once more proud of herself - all is right in her world- except for one thing - in the corner of her eye she sees a very disapproving Gabrielle. Xena the warrior is now in conflict with Gabrielle. Xena has made some very harsh decisions as commander. With limited food and water she has decided that only the fighting men should have them - the seriously wounded will not. Gabrielle is appalled at the decision. Xena tells her there are no good choices in war just lesser degrees of evil - if they don't win the war they will all die anyway. Gabrielle, however, cannot accept this - if you lose your humanity then you have lost the war in her eyes. Xena however sees no choice - she is in a death struggle with the Horde and Gabrielle's advice to stop fighting is absurd in Xena's eyes. She can't stop fighting - she can't negotiate with the Horde - they are not human. The rift deepens between the two women as Xena bonds more and more with the troops who by now idolize her. When Gabrielle interferes with Xena's interrogation of a Horde prisoner, Xena rounds on her telling not to challenge her authority in front of "her" troops. Gabrielle is at a loss - where did her Xena go. Xena is blunt - the good Xena is gone and the old Xena is back. For Xena the good Xena can't help them she has no faith in "goodness" to get them out of this predicament. I think she actually sees the good Xena as weak - the one who one ran like a rabbit, the one who couldn't protect Gabrielle or herself. The old Xena will save them all and if she has to distance herself from Gabrielle in order to save her friend, she will. Gabrielle, on the other hand, is not so willing to accept Xena's viewpoint. She doesn't blame Xena - she understands that war itself is to blame. It is war that made the Horde savage and Xena a stranger. By chance Gabrielle discovers what the word "kaltaka" means. This word is spoken by the dying Horde outside the fort's wall - the soldiers believe that this their war-god, that they even cry out to him even in death. Gabrielle now learns that it is only the word for water. The Horde are just men crying out for comfort as they die not superhuman warriors. Gabrielle now chooses her path - she will treat the Horde as men deserving of compassion. She takes her water bag slips out and comforts the dying warriors. Xena is frantic when she learns this. The one she wants to protect most will certainly be killed by her inhuman enemy. As she prepares to rescue Gabrielle, she is startled to see that the Horde warriors don't attack Gabrielle. Instead they see this as a truce and being to retrieve their wounded. Xena suddenly sees the Horde differently - they have a code of conduct, not unlike her own. Gabrielle has stopped the fighting for a brief moment - enough time for Xena to formulate a new plan, one that will not be a war of annihilation. She now realizes that Gabrielle has changed the situation. She sends food to the wounded and reconciles with Gabrielle. It is a wonderful scene - the stoic warrior trying to tell her friend that she loves her and stumbling over the word love - as I understand it that was Lucy's reading - and it was perfect. Xena who had just given Gabrielle such a hard time and who is so afraid of being vulnerable would have a hard time confessing such a tender emotion. Xena now challenges the Horde leader to single combat, defeats him and he is killed by his own warriors. The Horde then leaves as mysteriously as they came. When this episode first aired there was a lot of discussion as to who was right - Xena or Gabrielle. Was Xena the warmonger or was Gabrielle a flower child? I don't think this episode was meant to answer that question. They are both right and wrong. Xena was right - you have to defend yourself when attacked. You can't simply not fight or your enemy will kill you. After all when Xena and Gabrielle ran from the Horde they were still trying to kill them. Gabrielle also made a very valid point. When she said to stop fighting I don't think she meant to simply lay down your arms and give up. I think what she meant was that you have to stop the war mind set and see your enemy not as simply the enemy. You have to see how he is similar to you so you can find a way out of the situation without destroying each other. Perhaps what Xena and Gabrielle both did made the Horde also change their tactics. Did Xena's ability to defeat the Horde in the ambush and the change in the Athenian army's conduct convince the Horde that victory would be more difficult than they thought? Did Gabrielle's act of compassion make the Horde see their enemy as some one they could trust to fight in an honorable duel? In the end no one became a pacifist - it ended violently with the Horde leader dead but a lot of Athenian soldiers and Horde warriors went home alive which probably wouldn't have happened if both sides hadn't have rethought their assumptions about the other side. Perhaps that is the best you can hope for in war - that you get home alive. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #278 **************************************