From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #275 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, September 17 2003 Volume 03 : Number 275 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Some Tarzan news [Sekhmet209@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Some Tarzan news [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Friend In Need Part 1 [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Ulysses ["H.J.J. Hewitt" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Claire Commercial? [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Some Tarzan news [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Some Tarzan news [cr ] [chakram-refugees] OT: Resourceful women in 'Hercules' [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Tarzan Poll ["S. Wilson" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Tarzan Poll ["mirrordrum" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Tarzan Poll [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Friend In Need Part 1 [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] xena poll at tarzantheseries.com [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Tarzan Poll [cjlnh@webtv.net (Cheryl LaScola)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 02:14:29 EDT From: Sekhmet209@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Some Tarzan news In a message dated 9/16/03 12:11:45 AM, IfeRae@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 9/15/2003 10:27:49 PM Central Daylight Time, >aemoses@comcast.net writes: > >> i swear this was on one of the chats or >> behind the scenes bits and *some*body says the part was written for gab >> so altho they auditioned other people etc. etc. iirc, renee didn't know >> that at the time. indeed, she said wherever i heard or read this. . .maybe >> it was in chakram?. . .that she didn't even know she'd be in the second season. >> > >Yes, I distinctly remember that too -- especially that they saw Renee as >Gabrielle, but that she didn't realize it. Oh, maybe it was on the BTS >where >she's doing Shakespeare? Althought I thought I'd read it before then. You probably did. I can't find the reference right now, but I distinctly remember Rob saying in an interview some time ago that they were looking for a "Renee O'Connor type" to play Gabrielle (which isn't _quite_ saying that they wrote the role for her specifically, but it comes pretty close). >As to Lucy, I'd read in several places that there may have been five ahead of >her. IIRC, Rob suggested Lucy right away when Vanessa Angel became ill and couldn't go through with the guest shot on HTLJ, but that idea was vetoed by the "suits" because she'd just been used in another episode ("As Darkness Falls"). Then they tried to get four or five other people, but none of them was interested and/or available, so they decided to go with Lucy after all (naturally I can't find the reference for that either; you wouldn't believe the amount of XWP clutter on my hard dri-- oh yeah, you probably would ). - --Sekhmet ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:26:35 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Some Tarzan news On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, mirrordrum wrote: > i've read and/or heard somewhere or other--i'm not like y'all who know where > they read everything--that the part was created for renee by rob presumably > b/c of her part in herc & the lost kingdom. which doesn't mean rob didn't > have to fight for her to get it. Yeah, that's what I was saying. Rob wanted her but it wasn't just up to him apparently. And she had to audition quite a few times. She talked somewhere about going in time after time. Perhaps in Chakram somewhere? but there was that whole thing about willa > auditioning for the part of gab. i swear this was on one of the chats or > behind the scenes bits and *some*body says the part was written for gab so > altho they auditioned other people etc. etc. iirc, renee didn't know that > at the time. indeed, she said wherever i heard or read this. . .maybe it was > in chakram?. . .that she didn't even know she'd be in the second season. I think she says this in one of the fan club tapes. Perhaps it's the Pasadena on stage one of her and Lucy. Lucy says that Rob had the part written for her. And Renee says no, she doesn't think so. And then that she didn't know that. And yeah, she also says that she wasn't sure if she'd be back for the second season. Or how long they'd keep the character. I *heard* this, didn't read it, that's why I figure it's on either the Pasadena tape or one of the coffee chat tapes. Gabrielle was fairly unpopular with many fans at first. And I suspect that may be why Renee felt that she might be written out. BUT many people talk about Rob's incredible loyalty to the people who work with him. And he obviously liked Renee's work--he used her a number of times for RenPic projects before he managed to get her cast as Gabrielle. > > as for lucy, i didn't realize she was that far down the list. i thought she > was second or third. at least that's what i thought some years ago tho i do > recall her saying in something recently that she was farther down the list > than that. Well, I believe I've heard that she was about the fifth one they'd worked down to a number of times. And of course, Vanessa Angel was actually cast and then got sick and told them she wasn't coming to En Zed. (Of course, there is some rumor also that she was just in Paris with Richard Gere--I heard that once too. Now THAT I heard from the fandom, so take it with a cellar of salt.) as jose chung said to scully on x-files, "truth is as subjective > as reality." > Ooooooooooooooooooooooo, NICE! And just so really true...grin > and kt, if you don't get a cc of this it's b/c my e-mails to you are > bouncing as are those of another bud of yours who uses comcast. > > md Yes and my mails to both of you are also bouncing as undeliverable from my end. But then, you guys know how snooty aurora.uaf.edu gets at times. It usually softens up and lowers it's standards after a day or two though and lets all you riff raff through again. I don't think it's my box since I'm getting mail from other buds telling me you and the mysterious Mr. M are getting bounced notices from me and I'm also getting lists mail. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:13:00 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Friend In Need Part 1 > fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > > << I just wish more respect had been shown for people who choose not to use > force as their first response. Xena's enormous respect for Gabrielle drew > from that aspect of her character. And now it's tossed aside in favor of > her now solving problems through violence and killing. And I just hate > that. >> > > I truly believe that's the "betrayal" a lot of Gabfans felt and that > they'd be surprised to know how many Xena fans were disappointed too. Well, of course I'm a Xena fan. I can't possibly deny it. BUT I like Gabrielle as well as I like many characters in many series. Lucy as Xena is just a very special case. I've never disliked Gabrielle as so many people I know do. (Or DID until she showed up in that beaded bikini in Lyre Lyre. Snort.) > I also thought her different perspective would be more of a > counterpoint to Xena's even up to the end. Yes--exactly. This is what really bothered me too. The tension between the two characters which was related to their very differing ways to deal with the world was just tossed out into the garbage can once Gabrielle changed to become a warrior. Early Gabrielle was Jiminy Cricket. Did Jiminy Cricket drink liquor, shoot pool and smoke cigars on The Island Of The Lost Boys just because Pinocchio did? No WAY! Warrior Gabrielle could no longer stand up to Xena and be totally believable, hell not even totally honest in her protests over Xena's excesses. And that was a damn fine conflict that was lost to the story tellers. Some of the best eps were those that put X&G into conflict. Gabrielle was the best of any compassionate solution finder person in the series. She stood for the highest level of peaceful resolution. Uh..that could be found at the end of a staff...oh well, there goes THAT theory. *sigh* Once she became a warrior, she couldn't be the best warrior because that was Xena's job. So instead, she became a kind of half-butted warrior who couldn't "take the kill" when the situation warrented it, who couldn't lead or strategize worth a damn and who relied upon Xena to save her half-butt, her amazon's butts and her family's butts and everybody else's butts. She should not have taken up the sword until the end. THEN it would have been okay to me. Because then I would have believed that she would be a combination of a Xena type warrior and a Gabrielle type let's find common ground to work on problem solver. The difference may be that > some Xena fans remembered the many times when Gabs' way was integral > to accomplishing missions effectively, whereas many Gabfans focused on > all the times her way seemed ineffective. > Very interesting paragaph. > <> > > You may be right. Although Gabs tended to choose violence first when it > involved someone close to her (e.g., Xena, Eve, Ephiny and the Amazons). > > -- Ife I think her decision to try to kill Hope was a real life-changing event for her. The first time is always the hardest. How come she could kill Hope but not strangers? Gabrielle's character changed to fit any number of stories. As md said in another post--she was the perfect foil for Xena. Whenever they wanted to show Xena going through something, they wrote Gabrielle doing whatever they needed her to do to showcase Xena's story. Whether it fit Gabrielle's character or not. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 02:23:13 -0500 From: "H.J.J. Hewitt" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Ulysses >Agreed that the guy was a charisma free zone. Odd, for someone as good >looking as he undoubtedly was. Contrast that with Cecrops in the next (?) >ep, who really isn't handsome but he sure has got *something*. Tony Todd's not just "really isn't handsome", but actually almost ugly. But, boy, did he have personality! If only HE had played Marcus, the character would have been believable as The Great Love Of Xena's Life. There \is/ a similar actor, not in the Herc/Xena series, who would have been even better-- Keith Hamilton Cobb in Sorbo's Andromeda series. Fab looks and \magnificent/ presence!!! I kept watching the show for quite a while just because of him. But then I got so sick and tired of Dylan Hunt's 'round heels' I stopped cold. >Btw, what's that about this ep interfering with the subtext? IMO, the darn >subtext was always interfering with the story. Dratted subtexters.... >cr >... stomps off into the distance, muttering to himself in concert with TEXena, who abominates soap operas, tromping right behind him >========================================================= >This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. >To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with >"unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. >Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. >========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 18:24:49 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Claire Commercial? On Tuesday 16 September 2003 00:53, Ribaud, Lynn wrote: > Claire spoke about this at the Brooklyn con. Yes, the commercial is > speaking of her company (C&C California, I believe) and no, the actors are > not Claire and Cheyann. They'd have had to audition to play themselves, > and Claire didn't want to face that. Imagine being turned down to play > *yourself*... > > Lynn Ribaud > ribaud@bnl.gov Now isn't that ridiculous? We all know that *some* people should never appear in ads... I'm sure we've all seen some of those cheapies on minor local stations where the local store manager has obviously insisted on fronting his own TV ad and he's *terrible*.... But hell, Claire's an experienced actor! We know she's good. She's certainly competent. NO WAY should the producers have insisted on auditions. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:16:08 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Some Tarzan news On Tuesday 16 September 2003 15:26, mirrordrum wrote: > in any event, she made a perfect foil for lucy/xena on so many fronts. even > their acting styles contrast nicely, with ren's compulsive workmanlike > approach setting off and highlighting lucy's intuitive style. yes, thelo, i > know. you'd much prefer to be watching whatsername who played m'lila. too > late now. ;) Oooooh. Do you have to remind me? My tape of Destiny is almost worn out. :( > and kt, if you don't get a cc of this it's b/c my e-mails to you are > bouncing as are those of another bud of yours who uses comcast. > > md So are mine. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:49:27 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Some Tarzan news On Tuesday 16 September 2003 18:14, Sekhmet209@aol.com wrote: > IIRC, Rob suggested Lucy right away when Vanessa Angel became ill and > couldn't go through with the guest shot on HTLJ, but that idea was vetoed > by the "suits" because she'd just been used in another episode ("As > Darkness Falls"). Then they tried to get four or five other people, but > none of them was interested and/or available, so they decided to go with > Lucy after all (naturally I can't find the reference for that either; you > wouldn't believe the amount of XWP clutter on my hard dri-- oh yeah, you > probably would ). > > --Sekhmet Just shows how much suits know, doesn't it? ;) I think RT recounted that in the E! special on Lucy that screened, oh, some years back. Includes the phrase, "OK, we'll just dye her hair black". cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:46:44 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] OT: Resourceful women in 'Hercules' I've been watching some of the early Herc episodes, some of which have a sort of innocent charm (and great scenery), and it's struck me again how many of the minor female characters are quite resourceful and assertive. (I'm not talking now of the scrumptious crumpet, as exemplified by King Thespius's fifty daughters, though I certainly don't object to their presence at all, at all ;) Nor am I talking now about major characters like Nebula or Morrigan, or fighting villains like The Enforcer or Xena, but just 'ordinary' seen-in-one-episode supporting characters. In the TV series, as early as episode 2 (Eye of the Beholder) there was Scylla (Kim Michalis), who was just an ordinary village girl, but she had the courage to go and talk to the cyclops who was terrorising the village, and then (after he had changed sides) to stand up against the other villagers when they tried to drive him away. There was of course, Lyla, in As Darkness Falls, though she was a bad girl; but still, she had nerve, and loyalty to her boyfriend the centaur, and integrity in the end. I think my early favourite, though, is Lydia (Lisa Chappell) in Pride Comes Before a Brawl. All you ROCfans who faithfully gritted your teeth and watched For Those of You Just Joining Us may have noticed her as Melissa Blake, Rob Tapert's assistant. She's been in many other Herc eps, though no Xena ones... it almost appears as if the two shows had separate lists of regular actors and the two rarely mixed. Odd. Anyway, Lydia was another ordinary village girl, who set off through the forest to find Hercules and ask him to help defeat the robbers who infested the road. She had to go by herself because the men of the village were too scared (!). And she met Iolaus instead. OK, so she screamed a couple of times (who wouldn't, when confronted by a giant man-eating (sorry, woman-eating) lake monster?), but she recovered quickly and helped Iolaus ambush the robbers and even punched one out. She had an infectious quizzical grin and an undaunted attitude (and was well supported by the writing). OK, so she's the main reason why I watch the episode. I know it's customary in XWP circles to write off Herc as just a male-dominated action series, but I think that's probably unfair. (And I think many of those writing it off have probably never watched more than one or two episodes). Sure, in the female-warrior department, Herc is overshadowed by Xena and the crop of female action series that followed it. But if Xena had never got off the ground, I rather think Herc would by now be compared very favourably with the usual run of shows, in terms of the number of strong female roles of all sorts in it. Besides, it's got great scenery ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:00:27 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: cande@sunlink.net Subject: [chakram-refugees] Tarzan Poll Lucy is now at 70% while those opposed 29% (Tues. morning). Yes there does to be an anit-Lucy bias here but I believe there was some discontent shen she was to be on the X-Files and she won those fans over, grudgingly. So lets keep voting for Lucy and show the Tarzan people that they made the right choice. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:34:34 -0500 From: "S. Wilson" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Hudson Leick in Eliza Dushku's new show Hi gang, I happened by a Buffy news site (buffy.nu) to see what was going on with Eliza Dushku's new show, "Tru Calling." I happened by a sneak preview of the show and the weirdest thing happened. Not until about midway through did my Xenagoggles work correctly, and lo I spotted Hudson Leick! It sort of floored me because Hudson has such a great range as a character actor, so I didn't even notice it was her. Also, she has this long, wavy blonde mane so it was hard to get a good look at her face. But sure as heck it was her. The premise of the series is based around Tru finding she has a link of some sort to the dead, who begin contacting her for help when Tru starts an intership at the local morgue. I see deeeead peeeopleeeee.... Anyway, Hudson had a good amount of screentime, and played a very good part. It was good to see her again on commercial television. I hope we see more of her soon. The show itself was good, but it could be so much better. I feel it's one of those shows that gets a rough start, then turns into a finely polished creation after a year. I'm definitely going to watch, but I'm not sure if they've changed the timeslot yet because last I heard, it was slated to go up against Friends and Survivor on Thursday nights (U.S.). *sigh* Eliza Dushku, who plays Tru Davies, played bad grrl in da 'hood Faith, on both Buffy and Angel. I also found that Michelle Trachtenberg (sp?) who played Dawn on Buffy is in The Ugly Americans, the flick that Lucy's been working on. Small world... Steph (lives under a rock) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:39:07 -0500 From: "S. Wilson" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Tarzan Poll What was that link again? At 09:00 AM 9/16/2003 -0400, cande@sunlink.net wrote: >Lucy is now at 70% while those opposed 29% (Tues. morning). Yes there >does to be an anit-Lucy bias here but I believe there was some discontent >shen she was to be on the X-Files and she won those fans over, >grudgingly. So lets keep voting for Lucy and show the Tarzan people that >they made the right choice. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:51:28 -0500 From: "S. Wilson" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Tarzan Poll Erm.... nevermind! Found it. Steph (really lives under a rock) At 08:39 AM 9/16/2003 -0500, S. Wilson wrote: >What was that link again? ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:44:17 -0400 From: "mirrordrum" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Tarzan Poll just myself personally, i don't think the number of times the same people vote really makes much difference. it really becomes a question of which group of people can, or are willing to, continue to repeat their opinion which is only of interest to those repeating it, as far as i can tell. "they" (tarzan's powers that be) already have her listed as a regular in the series. lucy will be the one to show 'em, if they give her even the remotest thing to show them with. shoot, she was even good in x-files which had disappeared so far up its own rootball it's a wonder anything could shine out at all. anybody who watches the show and is willing to attend and give props to an actor over the age of 20 will see for themselves what lucy can do. people who haven't watched her act don't know lucy like we know lucy, oh oh oh what a gal . just they wait and see. ;) imnsho. md - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 9:00 AM Subject: [chakram-refugees] Tarzan Poll > Lucy is now at 70% while those opposed 29% (Tues. morning). Yes there does to be an anit-Lucy bias here but I believe there was some discontent shen she was to be on the X-Files and she won those fans over, grudgingly. So lets keep voting for Lucy and show the Tarzan people that they made the right choice. > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:03:19 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Tarzan Poll > Lucy is now at 70% while those opposed 29% (Tues. morning). Yes there > does to be an anit-Lucy bias here but I believe there was some > discontent shen she was to be on the X-Files and she won those fans > over, grudgingly. So lets keep voting for Lucy and show the Tarzan > people that they made the right choice. Well sadly, the anti-Lucy bias is most virulently alive among the rabid Gabrielle/Renee fans. These guys got themselves a special name on the Xenaverse list and an entry in the Xenaica. They are known as Gabfundies. And the mark of the Gabfundie is to worship Gabrielle and Renee and to hate Xena, Rob and very often Lucy. It comes from jealousy over Lucy's much higher profile and anger that Renee gets "overlooked". For years, while the show was on the air, there was a conspiracy theory that Lucy forced Rob to keep Renee from doing talk shows and interviews because "If she did, then everybody would realize that Renee is much more beautiful and talented than Lucy could ever aspire to be. And that's why Renee did not get booked on shows." This was often followed by anquished calls to Renee to change managers. If you want to see Gabfundies currently in action, go cruise over to the Talking Xena board. (Something I do as comic relief off and on. Grin.) The current assessment of Lucy being on Tarzan on Talking Xena from a SMALL number of people is that this proves that "She has become a joke". Replies to this include someone saying that they hope the series fails so that this crap gets off their screen. There is also a thread there that apparently says that Jay Leno's staff is making fun of Lucy behind the scenes. (I didn't take the time to find the original post on that thread, I just saw replies to it.) Note, MOST of the people on talking Xena are very happy that Lucy is going to be on our screens again soon. But there is this small contingent of sour fans that never miss a chance to diss Lucy and her accomplishments. When Lucy was doing the tour with Dave Dobbin, the word then was that she was a washed up has been. They didn't share her joy in getting to tour with her teenage hot singing star. Nope, since they had no idea who Dave Dobbin was, this was just another sign of Lucy's failure to "make it". One person I was having dinner with shortly after the tour started said, "We KNEW she had no future. And now here's proof." I've also seen bitching over the marketing of the DVDs. Some people are really pissed that Renee's name is not highlighted like Lucy's is and that the picture on the cover is only Xena. One person was upset that on season one when you open the set, Bruce Campbell is the first other actor from the series you see. Well, that's because after Lucy, Bruce Campbell is Rennaissance Pictures most well-known star. Till Lucy he was their only star, starting from their very first cult pic, Evil Dead. Whenever there was a poll where you could only vote FOR someone, Lucy or Xena generally did fairly well. But whenever there was/is a vote where you could also vote against someone, there were always people who voted against Lucy or Xena. And often brought her ratings down, which of course was their agenda. The difference to me between the more damaged Renee fans and Lucy fans, damaged or not, is the lack of a serious animus towards Renee. When Renee took the Shakespear by the Sea job, I did not see ANY dissing or mean-spirited smugness publicly posted about how low she had fallen, that all she could get as work was an appearance in a local amateur production. I've never heard of Lucy fans crowing with joy over Renee's movie about the traffic jam never finding distribution. Sure some fans dislike Gabrielle. But I have NEVER seen that extrapolated to hating Renee. Most XWP fans I know respect Renee for her hard work and for her own lack of ego that made her such a great co-star both on the show and in real life. In the season two commentaries, she repeats again something about how much easier it was for her on the show since Lucy was the one who bore the burden of being the star, receiving the bulk of the attention and having to be aware every moment of everything she said. And that Renee was happy it was that way. Personally, I wish Renee the best. I hope her new film does well. I hope she finds work she enjoys doing. I will go to anything of hers that is released just to support the folks who worked on the best ever TV show in my estimation. And besides--I think she's an excellent comedian and her new movie is a comedy. Also, why would Tarzan fans hate Lucy? Anybody with a big fan base will just help that show be a success. The actress she replaced isn't that well known to have an angry fan base pissed at her replacement, is she? I've never heard of the woman. (Of course, I haven't heard of MOST of the people I see in People and on E!...) Anyway, I bet you anything, that the bulk of those folks racheting up the "I Hate Lucy" percentage are tried and true Gabfundies, who vote early and vote often against Lucy every chance they get. And I'm pretty sure that if that is the case, that would really piss off Renee. KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 18:56:34 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Friend In Need Part 1 In a message dated 9/16/03 2:14:15 AM Central Daylight Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: << Warrior Gabrielle could no longer stand up to Xena and be totally believable, hell not even totally honest in her protests over Xena's excesses. And that was a damn fine conflict that was lost to the story tellers. Some of the best eps were those that put X&G into conflict.>> Oh, excellent point. I loved the conflict between them also, but couldn't figure out why/when the tenor of it changed. Yes, Gabs was still Xena's cheerleader, but more for the violence, less for finding alternatives, and Gabs was jumping into the fray right along with the WP. The conflicts became more personal -- e.g., over their children -- or internal (e.g., "should I follow Najara," "should I encourge her to follow Najara"). I liked these other conflicts. I liked the Gabs got to evolve. But missed the Big Question conflicts where Gabs still had naive, bull-headed passion in her confrontations with the WP. << The difference may be that > some Xena fans remembered the many times when Gabs' way was integral > to accomplishing missions effectively, whereas many Gabfans focused on > all the times her way seemed ineffective. > Very interesting paragaph. >> Heh. One of the ironies to me is how Gabs got trashed by many of her fans. It's one thing to say that TPTB trashed the character or put her in ridiculous situations. But some of the fans completely ignored the good that Gabs did, I guess to prove that TPTB hated her. It was as if she had to be "perfect" in their eyes, or otherwise wasn't worth discussing. An "ideal" that was tarnished by being human. The most vicious, dismissive, unsympathetic opinions I saw about Gabs came from those who professed to love her. One group hated that she looked like a bumbler next to Xena, so wanted her to be more adept physically, more involved in the action. The other group hated that she lost her idealistic way from seasons 1-2 and became so physical and involved in Xena's corrupt, violent world. I always wondered what the trashers would've wanted to see, if Gabs had her own show. I suspect they'd still be dissatisfied, even without Xena to blame. << I think her decision to try to kill Hope was a real life-changing event for her. The first time is always the hardest. >> Are you not counting Meridian because that was an impulsive, unintentionally lethal kill? -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 21:28:49 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] xena poll at tarzantheseries.com In a message dated 9/15/2003 8:13:13 PM Central Daylight Time, cjlnh@webtv.net writes: > It is still there at 8,441 and Lucy's % dropping from 89% to 88%. Seems > some Tazan fans are increasingly anti-Lucy. Since I started tracking the > poll, the "NOT HAPPY at all Lucy is in the series" count has gone from > 500 to almost 850!! Come on LL fans keep voting for LL!! > > The site is www.tarzantheseries.com and the poll is on the right side > You know, I'm beginning to think those of you who see a conspiracy may not be so paranoid after all. I visited the site today (9/16) at about 8:15 pm CST, and it's now down to 68% Yes, still at 1% Not Sure, and 31% No, out of 18,816 votes cast. Now, I don't put much credibility into these polls, beyond getting fans to visit sites (over and over). Still, it does seem a bit suspicious that there's been such a big change in the numbers. I certainly hope folks are wrong in thinking it's XWP fans who don't like Lucy or are using the poll to express their dislike of AFIN or something else about XWP. I just can't imagine that many who know nothing about Lucy who would have such a strong negative opinion about her being on the show. Of course there's also the slight possibility that there are those who *do* like Lucy and think Tarzan isn't the right vehicle for her. (Yeah, yeah, KT, I'm trying to see the glass half full. ) - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:10:04 -0400 (EDT) From: cjlnh@webtv.net (Cheryl LaScola) Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Tarzan Poll All I can say to KT's informative post is, WOW... I had no idea all this animosity was going on!! Gabfundies or not, how sad a commentary that supposed "fans" would have to be sooo small as to stuff the ballot box to tear Lucy down. I am only on this list so not in tune with the bigger picture I guess. I couldn't figure out how /why the count against Lucy joining the cast of Tarzan was so high and growing. I suppose I should be happy it is just a small nucleus of disgruntled ex-XWPfans. And I absolutely agree with KT that if Renee knew how these Gabfans were behaving she would be very distraught to think her friend was being judged unfairly. I do believe LL and ROC are friends for life and that means through thick and thin. Sure I am sure they had plenty of disagreements during their 6 year run, but as they became friends their respect for one another was pretty self evident. Anyway, I don't know when this poll is supposed to end on Tarzan, but I am determined now to go back to the site and click on YES for LUCY as many times as my tired fingers will allow.... ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #275 **************************************