From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #270 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Friday, September 12 2003 Volume 03 : Number 270 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: The Debt [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Kathryn Morris' new show ["mirrordrum" ] [chakram-refugees] Tarzan's Aunt [KTL ] [chakram-refugees] I'll Make You Happy [KLOSSNER9@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] [Flawless] Official WB site (fwd) [KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: The Debt On Thursday 11 September 2003 02:37, cande@sunlink.net wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: cr > > > > Oh, but wasn't that a delightful scene. Where Ming Tzu is ranting on, all > oblivious, about the 'stupid' Xena and she's trying to keep her temper and > not off him. And Ming Tien does a double-take and decides to keep his > mouth shut. Nice. > > > It was just a wonderful scene. You see how really stupid Ming Tzu is. It > is no wonder Lao Ma was so contemptuous of him. Then you have his son > realizing something his father is just too foolish to notice and the boy > says nothing. Now I have often wonder why Ming doesn't say anything: is > he still frightened of Xena or has some of that fear given way to a touch > of hero worship. Not fear, so much. Just that he got used to being dominated by Xena. If he'd felt close to Ming Tzu, he would have said something, but I guess he never felt close enough to feel at ease with his father. > His father is nattering away while his most hated enemy > serves him dinner the kid now does what fool he is and how bold Xena is. > Perhaps that's why Ming hates Xena so much not just that she killed his > father but destroyed the image that all children have that their parents > are wise and powerful. No, I don't think so. I don't think Ming Tien had any liking or respect for his father by that time. He certainly had no liking for his mother. He may have hated Xena for upsetting his world. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:45:19 -0400 From: "mirrordrum" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Kathryn Morris' new show i haven't seen this amongst my posts. for those who're interested, the naj is starring in a new CBS show this fall. another in the spate of CSI-type cop shows with doughty women on the case. COLD CASE stars Kathryn Morris ("Minority Report") in a drama about Lilly Rush, the lone female detective in the Philadelphia homicide squad who finds her calling when she's assigned to "cold cases," crimes that have never been solved. Where previously she had used her instinctive understanding of the criminal mind to crack current murder cases, this smart and driven detective is now intrigued by new challenges: interrogating witnesses to old crimes whose lives and circumstances have since changed, making use of today's new science and finding fresh clues to cases once thought to be unsolvable. Lilly is also prepared for the consequences, namely that her work will open old wounds and may lead suspects to commit new crimes. When she hits a dead end, Lilly seeks advice from her respected mentor, Lt. Tom Stillman (John Finn). Also on the team is Det. Will Jeffries (Thom Barry), who's been around long enough to know where all the bodies are buried; Det. Chris Lassing (Justin Chambers), Lilly's handsome, straight-ahead partner, and Det. Ronnie Vera (Jeremy Ratchford), a tough cop who's considered the go-to guy for getting a confession. Lilly sees her new assignment as a turning point in her career, and she makes it her business to ensure that no victim is ever forgotten. http://www.cbs.com/primetime/fall_preview_2003/shows/cold_case.shtml why oh why is the mentor always a guy? another reason to love xena. her mentors were primarily women. i wonder who taught her to use a sword when she and lyceus were young. his remark to her in that she's better with a sword than he is (well duh) has always made me wonder who would have taught them the basics. well, had to be more than basics for them to defeat cortese. thanks to beth on abmxh for the hedzup on . md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:13:01 -0400 (GMT-04:00) From: cande@sunlink.net Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: The Debt - -----Original Message----- From: cr "No, I don't think so. I don't think Ming Tien had any liking or respect for his father by that time. He certainly had no liking for his mother. He may have hated Xena for upsetting his world." cr You know the director did a wonderful job with that child. He was so quiet and enigmatic - I doubt if he said one word during the episode. He just was taking it all in and you never knew what he was feeling. Actually I was surprised that he grew up to be such a verbal person. Young Ming said nothing and older Ming never shup up. Interesting contrast. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:22:24 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: FIN Part 1 On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Cheryl Ande wrote: > > From: KTL > > > > > > > Previously on this thread: Cheryl said: > > > As Lucy says in the > > > commentary Xena is rehearsing her death and this is her deathbed > > > confession - she loves Gabrielle. > > I answered: > > > > Oh honey, you done been watching this with your HLAK (Hot Lesbian Action > > Knob) turned WAY up, ain'tcha? > > > > What Lucy says in the commentary is: > > > > "I think this is Xena's practice run at death. Cause she knows she won't > > be able to go through it, with Gabrielle. So she's doing it now so that > > Gabrielle knows what it might have been like later." > > > > End of quote > > > > Yes that is the end of the quote but you have to admit there is a confession > of love in this scene. "If I only had thirty seconds to live, this is how I > would live them - looking into your eyes" It's a beautiful scene. Xena was always the most eloquent character in the show. I loved her way with words. And the way Lucy said them. You know, I just realized that even THEN Xena says as she talks to Akemi as she makes her preparations for death, "Akemi, I know what I must do. But I'm afraid that this day what's done may not be undone." So Xena's twitchy sense was working full time by this part of the ep-and this is before she's even dead and way before Akemi shares the "If you don't stay dead these guys continue to suffer" news. While I think that Xena was the most eloquent character, I think Akemi was certainly the best poet. I wonder who wrote those various verses she writes for Xena. I've done a cursory search online and nothing popped up, so I think either they are original or they're from some Japanese text perhaps. Wherever they're from, they're lovely. > This isn't exactly two good > buddies saying farewell to one another. Depends upon how much they love each other. I wasn't at my mother's death. I've imagined many times what it was like when she died. And wished I had been there to have helped, or at the very least to have looked into her eyes and eased her final moments on earth in any way I could have. If Xena is practicing for her death > then she has decided to say something very important to Gabrielle and what > she is saying is that she wants to die with the image of her before her. > That'w what happens in the last battle. Xena is dying with Gabrielle's name > on her lips and her image before her. Lucy is saying that Xena wants Gabrielle to see what her death will be like because she isn't going to be there for it. PAY ATTENTION! ;-> And sure, you can say that you see it as Xena saying, "My preferred death would be to be with you, looking into your eyes as I died." And I think that's a valid interpretation. But Xena has also said a number of times that she wants to die the way she lived-as a warrior. And in FIN she does. And then when she decides to stay dead--she watches the sunset-she STILL doesn't spend her final-moments-in-this-realm looking into Gabrielle's eyes. Uh-uh. She isn't thinking of Hercules, or > Borias or her children she is thinking of Gabrielle. > > > Well hell, almost everybody else in her life is dead! Even Hercules is probably already in Olympus, courtesy of his...er whoops, dead father. Hmmmm. In the real myth, Zeus takes Hercules up to Olympus at the end. Wonder how Hercules ends up on Tapert's version of the myth. Guess we'll never know now since last we saw, he was just walking off into the sunset with his little boy toy. And everybody knows what a pill Eve is. Would YOU want to die thinking of Eve? That'd be like thinking of Tammy Faye Bakker whining about her god as you died, for crying out loud. WAY too much aggravation. It's gotta be aggravating enough to die, without thinking of whinging goody-two-shoes as you go. You know, you gotta Gabrielle credit though-she's just about the only one left standing at the end of the show. She even beats Xena out on that score. > > Lucy has a very intriguing and imaginative intellect. I love to > > hear her analyse what was going on in Xena's mind. > > Yes it is always interesting who obejective actors are when discussing their > characters. They have such an ineterstin ability to see them as people in > their own right. Xena would of course do this otr that. She never seems to > say I decided Xena sould do this or that - it is as if Xena had a kind of > will of her own. > > That grrl just never REALLY accepted Lao Ma's teachings... > > > > It was only with the introduction of Evil Xena in the Debt that XWP was > > transformed from being a cheesy parody of myths into being a true myth all > > of its own, featuring a hero who was extraordinarily original and > > compelling. > > You're right about how Evil Xena was introduced. For two years we hear > about bad Xena was and I don't think the audience really ever imagines that > she is all that bad. Then we meet her and in Destiny she isn't really that > horrible. A bit spoiled and full of herself but then there is that > transformation in the end when you see madness take hold of her. In the > Debt we meet the results of Xena's transformationa and I think the audience > is stunned. She is corrupt. Nasty and greedy but yet there is still a > spark of humanity. You root for Lo Mao to nurture that spark and you expect > Xena to make the right choice then Xena obstinately choses the wrong path > again. Then you watch her over and over take the wrong fork in the road and > you marvel that this woman finally turns from evil and wants to remake her > life. I made a number of converts in work to XWP during season five. And of course once they got into the show, they wanted to see the earlier eps. So every Saturday as we waited for our tourists to check out of the dorm, we would have little Xena ep-watching marathons. One day a new coordinator came in, laughed at us for watching Xena and then sat down with us to watch Maternal Instincts. And at the end of it, he came up to me where I was saying goodbye to some of our tourists. He was literally slack-jawed with disbelieve and kept saying, "She didn't forgive her! She didn't say, 'Oh, it's okay-stop crying. I know you didn't mean it. I know you're sorry that your lies led to my son's death. Here, let me give you a hug'. She didn't forgive her! They didn't walk off together! She didn't forgive her!" The tourists looked both bewildered and intrigued as I shooed them off to get into their cab. Heh. And the coordinator was exactly right. With the multi ep arcs, Tapert never went for the simple shallow resolution. The stories were never neatly wrapped up with all strings cut and tucked and all edges evenly aligned. Actions had repercussions that might not show up for years. Many of the decisions made reverberated throughout the show ever after. With Xena's story, Tapert and Stewart created the most complex, multi-layered, morally ambiguous, loaded-down-with-dense history characters I have ever seen on my little TV screen. And then Rob gave her to Lucy to play. And Lucy took that character and ran into television history with her. It is a powerful story of redemption. Xena didn't change because she > was simply always just a good girl trying to break free of evil influences. > She was the evil influence and through sheer force of will she turned from > it. She decides to use her the power she had for good simply because she > decides that is what's best. I never believed that she was looking for > salvation for herself. Now that's a very good point. I always say that the basic story of XWP is Xena's road to redemption. But I never meant it as her seeking atonement to better her own afterlife. No, she's out to make atonement and reparations to those whom she's hurt in the past. She's trying to make up to them for what she did to them in any way that she can. In FIN of course, when she dies so those 40,000 souls can go to a state of grace, she is truly the redeemer, in the same sense that the Christian faith makes Christ the redeemer by his death on the cross. XWP always had references to Christian themes and symbols. And the final symbol is of Xena the Christ figure, dying (staying dead) so that all those souls can attain a state of grace and peace. And of course, in the end this sacrifice does, as Akemi says, redeem Xena too. Because in the next life, she's the Mother of Peace. Still fighting for the little guy but this time only with her words and example, not with her words, example AND chakram. I always thought she was struck suddenly by a kind > for empathy for her victims and suddenly she knew what they suffered and > wanted to make that right as best she could. I always thought Evil Xena was > almost in a kind of psycotic state - disconnected from the people > surrounding her never quit able to understand their sufferring. Once Xena > is well the magnitude of her selfishness and narcissism overwhelms her and > she is determined to rejoin society and act as unselfishly as possible to > make up for her prior trangressions. Oh-you already said what I said above. Very well too--smile. KT > > CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:41:33 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] Tarzan's Aunt Did anybody post on Charkram yet that there is now a TarzanTV group at Yahoogroups.com? The url is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TarzanTV/ Bonnie, who is the postmistress of Flawless has started it and so far it's VERY Lucy centric. Not that I'm complaining about that.... It's been opened only two days and already has 87 members. Bonnie wrote on that list: > > I was thinking about the show this morning and I kept coming back to the > > same impressions. I'm wondering if they hope to attract the youth market > > with the eye candy underwear model and surround him with serious talent to > > make the show watchable for the rest of us. > > > > Bonnie Then, on Thu, 11 Sep 2003, MaryD wrote: > Sounds about right...frankly I don't really care :) I just want to see Lucy. Amen, sister! Well all Tarzan has to do is hang around in his loin cloth and grunt, right? I'm hoping that they have Aunt Kathleen sing at some point. Maybe in a flashback, she could be singing to the young Lord Greystoke. Oh wait--I guess he's not an English lord in this one, eh? Or perhaps they could have a scene of Aunt Kathleen teaching the boy to talk through singing--they could sing "The Rain In Spain" from My Fair Lady together. Any song that Lucy will sing--I'll take it. You know, I'm just PRAYING that they have as much humor in this show as XWP and yeah, X-Files did also. It will take a while of course to develop the characters enough to play around with them they way these two shows did. I'm just really glad that Lucy is in a "drama", even a genre drama than a sitcom. I want to watch her create a character again. AHHHHHHHHHH. There's an official? site where you can tell them how you feel about Lucy being added to the cast: http://www.tarzantheseries.com/ And here's more info on the show, with the relevant parts written below the link from http://www.filmjerk.com/nuke/article546.html ______________________________________ Meanwhile, another WB show is looking to add two regular characters to its contemporary adaptation of Tarzan, titled Tarzan & Jane. In taking the character to New York City, the producers are now looking to cast both Tarzans aunt and his cousin. The start of filming is unknown at this time, as is the director of the second episode. The series will film in Toronto. His aunt, Katherine Clayton, is described as being in her mid-30s and runs Greystoke Industries media division. Described as beautiful, sharp, sophisticated, witty and acerbic, she never passes up an opportunity to be the thorn in her brothers side (named Richard, he will be played by Mitch Pileggi). She often uses her newspaper and media holdings to expose his corporate scandals and misdeeds. Katherine lives in the Clayton ancestral home, a Beaux Art behemoth on Fifth Avenue where Tarzan comes to live as well. She is as surprised as anybody when caring for her long-lost nephew brings up warm, nurturing impulses she never knew she had. When Richard tries to control Tarzan to further his own corporate agenda, Katherine becomes as protective and fierce as a lioness. This character will be signed to appear in 10 out of the initial 13 episodes ordered by the network; should the series do well in the ratings, it will be picked up for the last 9 episodes, bringing it to a full seasons order. The other regular character is Nicki Porter, who will be in 7 of the series initial order of 13 episodes. Nicki is Janes younger sister, roommate and confidante. Described as cute, fresh and armed with a decidedly downtown sensibility, shes a college freshman majoring in fashion design although shes considering changing majors to photography, or maybe taking a year off and going to Italy. In other words, casting sources say she is impulsive, free-spirited, and a little irresponsible, which makes her Janes polar opposite. Even though they don't agree on much, the two sisters love for each other is remarkably uncomplicated either sister would walk over hot coals for the other. A firm believer in embracing passion wherever you find it, Nicki is thrilled to see Tarzan enter Janes life. In her opinion, Jane could use a little untamed passion. Angel is scheduled to air 9 p.m. on Wednesdays, following Smallville, while Tarzan & Jane has been given the 9 p.m. Sunday timeslot. KT Gods, this is such great news I can hardly stand it! Yahoooooooo!!!!!! ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:42:53 EDT From: KLOSSNER9@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] I'll Make You Happy I'll Make You Happy Siggy, a teenaged prostitute, thinks she may have found a way out of Auckland's red light district and on to Easy Street when she finds out about her pimp's planned drug deal. She decides to steal the pimp's money and make a run for better days in this offbeat comedy. Star Jodie Rimmer is one of several cast members who has appeared on the syndicated Xena and Hercules TV shows. Xena herself, Lucy Lawless, makes a cameo appearance. Also starring Rena Owen (Once Were Warriors). VHS s42155 - IN STOCK(12) : - Will ship within 24 hours. $59.95 ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:52:07 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: [chakram-refugees] [Flawless] Official WB site (fwd) Here's more info... This is from the official WB site http://www.thewb.com/Shows/Show/0,7353,||1474,00.html KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:33:49 -0400 From: mirrordrum Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] [Flawless] Official WB site (fwd) ohHO! i must've missed this bit the first time round: LUCY LAWLESS TO ADD FIREPOWER TO THE WB ACTRESS SIGNS DEAL TO BE ONE OF THE STARS ON THE NETWORK'S HIGHLY ANTICIPATED FALL DRAMA "TARZAN"... ...AND TO DEVELOP A NEW NETWORK SERIES FOR THE 2004-2005 SEASON BURBANK, CA (September 8, 2003) - Lucy Lawless (DreamWorks' "The Ugly Americans," "Xena Warrior Princess") will become one of the stars on The WB's highly anticipated fall drama TARZAN in the role of Kathleen Clayton, a publishing magnate and the title character's aunt. *In addition, Ms. Lawless signed an exclusive series development deal with The WB for the 2004-2005 season. The announcements were made today by Jordan Levin, President, Entertainment of The WB.* Ms. Lawless will be a series regular in the first season, *while developing a series for next fall.* md At 02:52 PM 9/11/2003 -0800, KTL wrote: >Here's more info... > >This is from the official WB site > >http://www.thewb.com/Shows/Show/0,7353,||1474,00.html > >KT >========================================================= >This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. >To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with >"unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. >Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. >========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:50:07 -0500 From: "S. Wilson" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] [Flawless] Official WB site (fwd) Ain't it grand! I just joined the Tarzan list (thanks to KT for posting the link) and saw that an article had been posted that said the very same thing. Here's the link that was given (props to Crystal for landing the first article-related post): http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/television/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1971912 In it, says, "Additionally, Lawless has inked a development deal with the network for a series project targeted for fall 2004." Wee! S. fighting the urge to listen to Baltimora's "Tarzan Boy" At 08:33 PM 9/11/2003 -0400, mirrordrum wrote: >ohHO! i must've missed this bit the first time round: > > > >Ms. Lawless will be a series regular in the first season, *while >developing a series for next fall.* > >md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:46:40 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: FIN Part 1 In a message dated 9/11/2003 4:23:19 PM Central Daylight Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > It is a powerful story of redemption. Xena didn't change because she > >was simply always just a good girl trying to break free of evil influences. > >She was the evil influence and through sheer force of will she turned from > >it. She decides to use her the power she had for good simply because she > >decides that is what's best. I never believed that she was looking for > >salvation for herself. > > > > Now that's a very good point. I always say that the basic story of XWP is > Xena's road to redemption. But I never meant it as her seeking atonement > to better her own afterlife. No, she's out to make atonement and > reparations to those whom she's hurt in the past. She's trying to make up > to them for what she did to them in any way that she can. > Sorry I snipped your and Cheryl's references to Christianity, etc. What I always liked about Xena was her simplicity about her good deeds, suggested by Cheryl's "she decides that's what's best." Everyone else had their "spin" on it - -- gave it higher meaning, but I don't think Xena herself thought about "grace" or "reparations." Yes, she could honor the memory of those she wronged, but I don't believe she ever thought she could "make up" for what she'd done in the eyes of some higher power, her victims or -- most importantly -- herself. All she could do was her best in the moment presented to her. Perhaps because of my own "lens," I saw Xena as believing she was what she did, which meant her good deeds didn't accumulate into something that would tip any scales. It didn't mean she could "be" good independent of or in between her actions. Each action was a thing unto itself that defined how "good" or "bad" she was at that particular time. To me, AFIN wasn't so much the totality or culmination, as the distillation of everything she'd learned to that point. It was a great challenge, which she rose to in that moment, which happened to be her final one and hence the "defining moment" of her life. In that way, it was extraordinary. But as "what I do," it was simply the last of many singular moments in which she had the opportunity to do what was best. Don't know if that makes sense. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #270 **************************************