From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #269 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, September 11 2003 Volume 03 : Number 269 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #267 [IfeRae@aol.co] Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy's next show [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena has new owner, I think [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Lucy's next show [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Lucy's next show [Sojourner ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: The Debt [cande@sunlink.net] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Lucy's next show ["S. Wilson" After Lao Ma spends the whole > evening wondering if Xena's going to lose it and cut Mein's throat. I'm > sure Lao needed a nice big bicarb that evening.>> LOL! I think Xena wanted to > > serve Lao Ma but she just couldn't do it on Lao Ma's terms. Lao Ma was > trying to tame a tiger when she was mentoring Xena and she forgot you can't > tame a tiger - you can win it's trust and maybe it's affection but it will > always be wild.>> And maybe bite you. Lao Ma never realized how strong Xena's wild streak was. >> I'm the one who also thought Xena's cooperation was a bit superficial. (KT thought Xena was being genuinely subservient Bwhahahahaha! ) However, I do think she realized the strength of Xena's wild streak. I believe she was trying to bring Xena along slowly, with incremental rewards (e.g., lessons about the power within, healing Xena's legs, enticing her with the WP thing). What I think she underestimated was Xena's greed, intelligence and need not only to have power but to exercise it. I don't think Lao Ma recognized Xena's uncanny raw ability to see short-term wins and ruthlessness in being the victor. Xena may have been foolish and rash, but she wasn't stupid. She looked around the room and saw all the main players there. Why share power with the Mings, when she, Lao Ma and Borias could have it all? Why wait, when the power was right there within her grasp? I think Lao Ma believed that Borias had the brains in the partnership with Xena. I said Lao Ma treated Xena more like a child, not like someone who had been involved in major military campaigns and managed to outsmart more experienced leaders. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 00:37:36 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy's next show Just when I was beginning to make a VERY slight dent in my inbox (although I've been trying desperately to get to Cheryl's FIN 2 review and keep getting sidetracked with replies to my replies to Cheryl's FIN 1 review), and now THIS has to come up. I haven't seen so many new posts in my inbox since the summer of 2001--when so many people felt so inspired to post their thoughts on FIN. And here WE still are, STILL talking about FIN. Are we tenacious or what? What? On Mon, 8 Sep 2003, mirrordrum wrote: > yeah, i just got the creation ent hedzup on this. fancy, lucy plays a witty, > sardonic and beautiful newspaper publisher. sounds like a xuber to me. > > i wish i could share your enthusiasm for mitch. he did have a strong fan > following on x-files and he's okay but, bless him, he doesn't know what to > do with his face when he's having an emotion. "...having an emotion"? What a lovely phrase. (I could make some "having gas" jokes, but I won't. Nope, not me.) he does best with anger i > think. I just really believed him as a former Marine. (He WAS a former marine, wasn't he? If not, Skinner damn well shoulda been. And if not, you're right--then he did suck as an actor...) I honestly felt he was just playing a very controlled, very impassive character. It sure fit into the whole "hide who you really are" characterizations of almost everyone but Mulder, Scully and the supporting casts of the week folks. Everybody else projected a kind of sinister ambience that always made one wonder just what side they were on. And just what side they were on when. Speaking of the endless FIN thread, I was watching the ending of the Debt the other night, to see what I thought about Xena's final words on the fate of Ming T'ien (I'd say, yup--she lied. And I've never been sure why. But I probably won't get to THAT thread until about November or so, if that, and hopefully the November of 2003) and as I watched Grant McFarland? was it, who played Ming T'ien I thought about how much better the supporting cast on X-Files was. You NEVER saw amateurish acting on there. Thank the gods they found Michelle Ang to play Akemi. Of course, on XWP it was due to a small talent pool (something we know ALL about in Alaska also) and a factor of shooting so far from LA where the huge talent pool hangs out. (Along with the untalented pool). I've gotten into X-Files recently when we were Outside and had access to cable and caught many many eps. And now have read a few books on the show also. And one thing that caused some resentment was that Carter tended to bring people up from LA to work and didn't use local folks as often as the local Vancouver industry would have liked. And of course a ticket from LA to Vancouver is MUCH cheaper than tickets from LA to En Zed. I wonder if we'll be seeing some Toronto actors in Tarzan's Aunt's show. maybe dick and kate will fight a lot. LOL! Sounds like it from the short synopsis...es. Synopsi? (Yes, I could look it up, but it's just more fun to play with words.) I was on a plane today and wondering about the plural of stewardess--a (gaggle, herd, brace) of stewardessi? (It was a rather long flight.) > > well this is all very exciting. or at least i hope it is. i just hope lucy's > happy! by the gods, the lists must already be forming. > LOL! That Bonnie went off and snuck one in there. Good on her! > cheers, > > md SO nice to hear from you publicly, bud! KT Still STUNNED that we'll be seeing Lucy on our screen again in only a few weeks. The only thing better would be seeing Xena in new eps. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "KTL" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 4:40 PM > Subject: [chakram-refugees] Lucy's next show ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:45:52 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena has new owner, I think > Is it really off Oxygen now completely? Does anyone > remember for how long they'd bought the rights? It was a horrifying five years. *sigh* Could > this mean that the show is finally released from > solitary confinement, and may actually be available > for an outlet that people can actually watch (like > SciFi, or USA, or hey, even the WB)?? > > If so, then this is a happy day indeed!! I hope it > gets picked up by one of those outlets soon. > > Meredith > meth@smoe.org What astounded me at the last con was how many brand new fans there were. They ARE finding it on Oxygen. AND they are different than the fan types that we are used to--they are folks who I suspect ignored Xena when it was on because it just appears to be so shallow on first viewing for many people. But I think that they kind of stumbled into it on Oxygen and watched a few and got hooked like any normal person of taste and discrimination would. (cough) They were just so cute at the con--brand new to genre shows, brand new to cult fandom, brand new to cons. Loving everything and so exited they were all practically squeaking from hyperventilating over seeing the stars. Totally non-jaded. It was a fun con. Good gods--I NEVER finished my con reports! The last one was going to be about the new fans... KT slinks away ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:56:15 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Lucy's next show > At 12:42 08/09/2003 -0800, KTL wrote: > >ARRRRGHHHHH!!! I just realized I don't GET the WB network. > >ARRRRRGGGGCHHHHHH!!!! > > > > > >KT > > If it's a result of geographical location - MOVE for godssake What!? Leave Fairbanks, Alas? (AKA, "The Belly Button of Alaska".) No--I just made that up. Due to it's central location in the state, it's actually called "The Golden Heart City". But Belly Button is also apropos, I think. Perhaps I'll start advertising our tourist program with, "Come visit the belly button of Alaska--lint capital of the world!" > > If it's money - blow off retirement or we could start a fund-raiser for you. > I can be the poster child for DLS--"Deprived Lawless Syndrome". (I mean, LDS is already taken, ya know?) > I couldn't think of anything worse in lucylife than watching her in a new > show, knowing that KT had to wait for red cross parcels filled with > video-tapes.... > Gods, you're SUCH a bud! (Or do you mean I'll make EVERYONE'S life a living (since nothing is ever dead in the Xenaverse--except the Xenaverse list) hell?) Actually, I have gotten a goodly number of posts offering to send me tapes. (Sadly, none of them demanded sex in return.) I am praying that Fox will show Tarzan. (Hey--they should take a leaf from Tapert and call it Tarxan! Thanks so much for your concern, dear heart. KT > Sojourner ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 02:11:56 -0800 (AKDT) From: KTL Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Lucy's next show > >>ARRRRGHHHHH!!! I just realized I don't GET the WB network. > >>ARRRRRGGGGCHHHHHH!!!! > >> > >> > >>KT > > > > Having never been to Alaska, I figure it's a mythical somewhere, "up thar, > in th' tundra," where Hoth-horses roam and the rebel alliance is set up on > the fronts of the war against the Evildoers(tm). Perhaps we brave Xenites > could make a pact to cross the lines weekly in covert operations designed > to get KT those tapes. All we need are volunteers to dress in these surplus > auction prop Ewok outfits. Who's first? > > Steph > (who would gladly volunteer to mail tapes) > BWAHAHHAHAAHH! Actually, I've discoverd that MANY XWP fans are indeed built like Ewoks--low to the ground and quite wide. We'd have no problem with them outfits--they'd fit us like pairs of proverbial gloves. However, hunting season is about to start soon--whatever you do, don't be putting any antlers on those Ewok suits. And thank you so much for the offer. My effusive thanks to all the folks who offered to send me tapes. Let me explain this so I don't have to keep repeating it. (Pay attention--I will say zeees ohnly wance...") Cable lines have not been strung to the ridge where I live yet. I could buy a dish. But we travel a lot and I don't think you can turn it off and on without paying heavy cancellation and reactivation fees. When we travel, we often have access to cable. I don't see a lot of stuff I can't live without. (I wish somehow I could get just Sci Fi and HBO to watch Farscape, X-Files, Six Feet Under and Sex in the City.) BUT I can rent all of these on DVD's. Eventually. I am praying to the gods that Tarzan will be shown on Fox in Fbx. Fox was the network that carried Xena. They also have an "alternative" Fox network in Fairbanks (NO, not THAT kind of alternative) and it just might show up on there also. I sure hope so...sniffle. I think I'll call the station tomorrow and find out what their intentions are. If they DON'T show it--then yes, I will be relying upon the kindness of strangers to get my Lucy fix. ("Strangers" used only in the sense that most of us on these list are just plain "strange". I consider you strange friends, not strange strangers. KT Whoops--I was supposed to slink away... ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:26:52 +0100 From: Sojourner Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Lucy's next show At 01:56 10/09/2003 -0800, KTL wrote: > > At 12:42 08/09/2003 -0800, KTL wrote: > > >ARRRRGHHHHH!!! I just realized I don't GET the WB network. > > >ARRRRRGGGGCHHHHHH!!!! > > > > > > > > >KT > > > > If it's a result of geographical location - MOVE for godssake > >What!? Leave Fairbanks, Alas? (AKA, "The Belly Button of Alaska".) > > > > If it's money - blow off retirement or we could start a fund-raiser for > you. > > > I couldn't think of anything worse in lucylife than watching her in a new > > show, knowing that KT had to wait for red cross parcels filled with > > video-tapes.... > > > >Gods, you're SUCH a bud! (Or do you mean I'll make EVERYONE'S life a >living (since nothing is ever dead in the Xenaverse--except the Xenaverse >list) hell?) The latter. I'm not THAT nice a bud. Bud. Anyway, I was really thinking of the fact that for 6 years I waited by the letter-box for videos of XWP eps (weeks old) to arrive before reading the darn-gosh-exciting raves that were happening on line. You were one of my contributers, of course. Along with a lass who lives near the Grand Canyon. And Kate in the UK who had broadcast quality tapes of seasons 1 and 2. But most of all TEXena who taped every dashed episode from season 3 on (I think). >Actually, I have gotten a goodly number of posts offering to send me >tapes. (Sadly, none of them demanded sex in return.) They really don't know you, do they.....? They should be demanding a guided tour around the belly-button... Liz ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:25:27 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #267 On Wednesday 10 September 2003 11:17, Cheryl Ande wrote: > I quote and have lost track of who said what: > > > Again, I saw that subservience as superficial and self-serving -- > > quite > > > > characteristic of Delinquent Xena. She knows there'll be some > > > payoff. > > > > I didn't see it that way at all. She IS subservient to Lao Ma. She's > > willing to be the Warrior Princess to Lao Ma's Queen. And seems to feel > > proud that Lao Ma has chosen her to be so..>> > > I always found the scene with Xena serving Mien as one where Xena is just > trying out Lao Ma's way. She trying to give humility a shot and see if it > works or not. You have a distinct impression that she isn't too impressed > with the results and neither is Lao Ma. After Lao Ma spends the whole > evening wondering if Xena's going to lose it and cut Mein's throat. Oh, but wasn't that a delightful scene. Where Ming Tzu is ranting on, all oblivious, about the 'stupid' Xena and she's trying to keep her temper and not off him. And Ming Tien does a double-take and decides to keep his mouth shut. Nice. > I'm > sure Lao needed a nice big bicarb that evening. I think Xena wanted to > serve Lao Ma but she just couldn't do it on Lao Ma's terms. Lao Ma was > trying to tame a tiger when she was mentoring Xena and she forgot you can't > tame a tiger - you can win it's trust and maybe it's affection but it will > always be wild. Lao Ma never realized how strong Xena's wild streak was. > > CherylA I think I agree there. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:40:15 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] DEBT 1&2: Water Soft & Raging On Wednesday 10 September 2003 10:38, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/9/03 3:08:18 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz > writes: > > << > The creep had just admitted to murdering his own mother, with > premediatation. > That's a little bit more significant than tailgating, wouldn't you say? >> > > I was being facetious, because some people do feel they're justified in > killing over what someone else thinks isn't worth it. It's not like Lao Ma > was Xena's mother. It's not like Ming's own folks had condemned him for > what he did to Lao Ma. No? It's not like Ming's own folks were consulted on the matter. Any of them who had an opinion seemed to end up sploshing around in Ming's basement. > My point is that Xena took it personally and > decided to take matters into her own hands. No court, no jury. Just Judge > Xena. Quite so. But by the standards of the time, that was probably not particularly unusual. > > << Of course, TPTB played the same trick with us that Ming played with > > Xena, > > though with an opposite effect. That is, Ming led Xena to believe Lao > > Ma might still be alive, then rudely dashed her hopes. TPTB, right at > > the end, > > led us to believe that Ming was still alive (I was starting to groan) > > then the camera pans round and shows he's a stiff. Yowza!!! I > > must be warped - I was delighted when I saw that. ;) >> > > > > Oh, excellent point! > > > > -- Ife > > That I'm warped? Yeah, we all know that. > > > LOL. Yes, that too. But I meant your observation about the ending. I was > "delighted" by the ending. More like "stunned." However, I was delighted > that I was stunned. Heh. > > -- Ife Yes, well put. Me too. I *do* like endings that leave me mentally saying 'My Gods!" and wanting more. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 23:39:39 +1200 From: cr Subject: [chakram-refugees] Scenery This is kinda OT but kinda not.... For no particular reason, I just decided to watch Herc right through (the better eps only) - there are some Herc eps I've never really watched except to catch them on tape. A lot of those eps, particularly in early season, are just 'warlord of the week', but some are passably good. And I noticed, the first few eps really did justice to the 'New Zealand Tourist Board's five minutes'. So did Lo Duca's music. It lifts the quality of the whole ep, IMO. I also noticed that in the second ep, Eye of the Beholder (unless I'm wrong and it was the first one), they did one of those 'travelling' montages and went in the space of a few minutes from Mt Mangere to Bethells to Army Bay, Whangaparaoa, to north Piha. (Plus footage of South Island mountains). It was as if, having sussed out all these locations, they couldn't wait to use them. Incidentally, though I'd heard rumours of them using Piha beach, and there is one long-range 'establishing' shot up the coast from the end of Log Race Road, south Piha, that they use fairly often, this is the first and only occasion I've ever seen them at Piha itself. I also noticed that in these early eps, there were huge numbers of really good-looking girls. This would explain the sad lack of scrumptious crumpet around me for the last decade or so. They were all otherwise occupied on the set of Hercules. Incidentally, for a series that developed to be 'lighter' than Xena, they didn't waste much time getting down to messing with Herc's life. Within three minutes of the start of the first ep, Herc had got home to his wife Deianera and kiddies, just in time to see Hera burn them to a crisp with a fireball. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:37:03 -0400 (EDT) From: cande@sunlink.net Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: The Debt - -----Original Message----- From: cr > Oh, but wasn't that a delightful scene. Where Ming Tzu is ranting on, all oblivious, about the 'stupid' Xena and she's trying to keep her temper and not off him. And Ming Tien does a double-take and decides to keep his mouth shut. Nice. It was just a wonderful scene. You see how really stupid Ming Tzu is. It is no wonder Lao Ma was so contemptuous of him. Then you have his son realizing something his father is just too foolish to notice and the boy says nothing. Now I have often wonder why Ming doesn't say anything: is he still frightened of Xena or has some of that fear given way to a touch of hero worship. His father is nattering away while his most hated enemy serves him dinner the kid now does what fool he is and how bold Xena is. Perhaps that's why Ming hates Xena so much not just that she killed his father but destroyed the image that all children have that their parents are wise and powerful. CherylA > I'm > sure Lao needed a nice big bicarb that evening. I think Xena wanted to > serve Lao Ma but she just couldn't do it on Lao Ma's terms. Lao Ma was > trying to tame a tiger when she was mentoring Xena and she forgot you can't > tame a tiger - you can win it's trust and maybe it's affection but it will > always be wild. Lao Ma never realized how strong Xena's wild streak was. > > CherylA I think I agree there. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:34:11 -0500 From: "S. Wilson" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Lucy's next show At 01:56 AM 9/10/2003 -0800, KTL wrote: >I am praying that Fox will show Tarzan. (Hey--they should take a leaf from >Tapert and call it Tarxan! > >Thanks so much for your concern, dear heart. > >KT Tarxan. Oooh. It has a zing! to it. I rather like just calling it "The Tarzan's Aunt Show" since "I Love Lucy" was already taken. I checked out WB's site. The guy playing Tarzan was a Calvin Klein model. The guy on your local billboard with the 50 foot crotch in whitey tighties. Steph (hatching evil schemes to capture Tarxan on the puter then edit out all the non-Tarzan's aunt parts) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:51:48 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: The Debt In a message dated 9/10/03 9:38:04 AM Central Daylight Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: << Now I have often wonder why Ming doesn't say anything: is he still frightened of Xena or has some of that fear given way to a touch of hero worship. His father is nattering away while his most hated enemy serves him dinner the kid now does what fool he is and how bold Xena is.>> Yep, I think it's all of that. He even says something like that to Gabs "10 winters later." Xena'd told him that she'd teach him a thing or two, when she kidnapped him. I guess he scared him into continuing his lessons at the dinner table. Heh. << Perhaps that's why Ming hates Xena so much not just that she killed his father but destroyed the image that all children have that their parents are wise and powerful. >> Interesting, but I don't think he hated Xena until the end. As he said, he admired her. I don't think he thought much of his father or Lao Ma. It was almost as if he reguarded Xena as his "true" parent, who betrayed him by going against all she'd taught him, by loving the blood mother he truly despised. I think he believed both parents got what they deserved and hated Xena for rejecting the role model she'd been, who "made," then rejected him. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #269 **************************************