From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #267 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, September 9 2003 Volume 03 : Number 267 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Re: Lucy's next show [KTL ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy's next show ["S. Wilson" ] [chakram-refugees] Season 2 DVDs ["Ernie" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy's next show ["mirrordrum" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Lucy's next show ARRRRGHHHHH!!! I just realized I don't GET the WB network. ARRRRRGGGGCHHHHHH!!!! KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 16:25:16 -0500 From: "S. Wilson" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy's next show Are you serious! How come we've not heard anything about this? Holy smokes. And "Tarzan"?? Wow, wow! I'm excited and strangely somewhat mopey. This means I have to start watching yet another Tarzan series, this one helmed by yet another blonde, blue-eyed, sweet-smellin', pouty-lipped hunk of beefcake. Ugh. But... Lucy! mmph... aarghh... Steph (torn) At 12:40 PM 9/8/2003 -0800, KTL wrote: >[snippy] > >Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy--we get to see Lucy again in a weekly series! Oh >no, oh no, oh no, it's genre stuff! > >Of course, Lucy transformed T&A action adventure shows--and I can't >imagine she'd take a crap role in a crap show (not for a whole season >anyway.) > >Mitch Peleggi--kewl--he's good! And YES--it starts next month! I was >just thinking recently that one of the jobs that have disappeared from my >life with the ending of Xena was the heart-stopping excitement over just >when the new season would start in the fall. And now we got this to look >forward to. > >Hot Damn! > > >KT ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 14:57:35 -0700 From: "Ernie" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Season 2 DVDs Here's a phrase I'll bet y'all haven't seen in a while: Spoiler Space Ahead!! (For those of you who have not yet purchased Season Two and seen the video commentaries on "Return of Callisto" & such) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is such an absolute delight to see these two friends sitting together and watching one of their episodes (and looking so different!), and making comments like, "I don't remember *that*!" and "Ooh, Xener (sic) slipped 'er the tongue!" and "I'm not surprised that they (the fans) saw a subtext," and the laughter that went on. It was like a reunion; Renee was looking at the whole thing from a director's point of view while Lucy's just having a good ol' time. These video commentaries alone are worth the price of purchase. Ernie - --------------------------------------------- "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made." -- Groucho Marx ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 18:15:24 -0400 From: "mirrordrum" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Lucy's next show yeah, i just got the creation ent hedzup on this. fancy, lucy plays a witty, sardonic and beautiful newspaper publisher. sounds like a xuber to me. i wish i could share your enthusiasm for mitch. he did have a strong fan following on x-files and he's okay but, bless him, he doesn't know what to do with his face when he's having an emotion. he does best with anger i think. maybe dick and kate will fight a lot. well this is all very exciting. or at least i hope it is. i just hope lucy's happy! by the gods, the lists must already be forming. cheers, md - ----- Original Message ----- From: "KTL" To: Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 4:40 PM Subject: [chakram-refugees] Lucy's next show > Hey! Look what I just read over at Sharon's fan page! > > > > Lucy is joing the cast of the WB network show Tarzan which airs Sunday > nights at 9/8c premiering Oct 5. She will play Kathleen Clayton the > witty, sardonic and beautiful newspaper publisher who is Tarzan's aunt. > > "Lucy has a tremendous sense of humor, warmth and grace," says The WB's > Entertainment President Jordan Levin. "She has a fun, larger-than-life > personality that will shape the character of Kathleen Clayton as she makes > it her own and that is what attracted us to her for future development." > > Lawless, who starred in "Xena: Warrior Princess" from 1995 until 2001, is > only signed as a regular for the show's first season. Her deal with The WB > also includes an exclusive series development deal for the 2004-2005 > season. > > "Tarzan" reunites Lawless with executive producer Laura Ziskin, who > performed the same duties on "Spider-Man," which featured a small cameo by > Lucy as a punk rocker. > > Captured by his billionaire uncle, Richard Clayton (Mitch Pileggi, The > X-Files), the CEO of powerful Greystoke Industries, Tarzan is returned, > against his will, to his family's home in New York City. > > > > Within the Clayton family, Tarzan's return has unleashed rivalries that > have festered for decades. His uncle Richard is bitterly estranged from > his younger sister Kathleen. While Richard believes that his desire to > rehabilitate Tarzan and make him a real member of society is in Tarzan's > own best interest, Kathleen believes that what Tarzan really needs is > their help and support as he finds his own way in this strange new world. > Now that their nephew has returned from the dead as Tarzan, Richard and > Kathleen have squared off in a new battle. While they are both driven by > love - for Tarzan and for the family - they also know that whoever > controls Tarzan, controls Greystoke Industries as well. > > Tarzan is from executive producers Laura Ziskin (Spider-Man, Pretty > Woman), David Gerber (The Lost Battalion), P.K. Simonds (Party of Five, > Beauty and The Beast) and co-executive producer Eric Kripke (Battle of the > Sexes) and is produced by Laura Ziskin Productions and The Gerber Company > for Warner Bros. Television Production Inc. > > > ______________________________________ > > > > Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy--we get to see Lucy again in a weekly series! Oh > no, oh no, oh no, it's genre stuff! > > Of course, Lucy transformed T&A action adventure shows--and I can't > imagine she'd take a crap role in a crap show (not for a whole season > anyway.) > > Mitch Peleggi--kewl--he's good! And YES--it starts next month! I was > just thinking recently that one of the jobs that have disappeared from my > life with the ending of Xena was the heart-stopping excitement over just > when the new season would start in the fall. And now we got this to look > forward to. > > Hot Damn! > > > KT > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 18:19:51 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Friend In Need Part 1 In a message dated 9/8/03 7:21:52 AM Central Daylight Time, fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes: > Hello? KT? That you? You been on one too many cruises with your seniors? > That's okay. I'll take any compliments when I can. Thanks! > You modest little devil. You KNOW I write you privately all the time expressing my delight in your posts. (Even the ones where you're totally wrong...grin)>> But publicly? What about our crusty images? Oh, right, I've already blown that gushing over some of your posts. And what do you mean, "totally wrong"? You must mean, "even when I am under the delusion that Ife is totally wrong." Heh heh. << Oooooo, I like that "Xena personifies their own 'dark' sides". But I think it applies more to Lao Ma. Of course for Lao Ma, I would say that Lao Tzu pretty much personifies her dark side also. But of course, nobody knows that except us and Xena. >> Lao Tzu? Ugh. No way! He was merely a convenient lump, a puppet whose main role was doing nothing at all. I guess for me "dark" side isn't inherently evil, so much as a source of raw power and emotion without limitations. As Alti pointed out, Lao Ma's "way" was based on denial, restraint, emptying herself of will. She did her best "good" work through Lao Tzu's political status, in contradiction of the bad that he himself would do if he could. But when it came to expressing rage, violence, a strong will, winning at all cost, etc., I think that's what Lao Ma saw in the woman she wanted by her side -- to carry out what she wished but couldn't do herself. << Akemi though, Akemi kills her father herself. She doesn't have Xena do her dirty work. >> Yes, that's true. You know that hadn't hit me before, but that is a point of honor that I'd initially glossed over, in terms of being more sympathetic to Akemi. She didn't need Xena in the same way as Lao Ma. Ironic that Lao Ma had the power to blow folks away, yet didn't have the will to do it. Akemi had nothing but her ingenuity and guts, yet never expected Xena to do the actual killing of her father. <> What do you mean? Didn't she use that special katana (with the red handle) to kill Yodoshi? << Akemi also asks Xena to bury the ashes which is a thing she obviously can't do for herself. >> LOL! Sorry, but that cracked me up. I keep telling these guest characters to get their own shows. *Then* they could probably manage to bury or carry their own ashes. << I just don't see Akemi as having much of a dark side. All of the things she does is done in the name of honor. It's all to avenge her family members deaths. Which her society expects of her. >> Yes, I agree with you now. She used Xena as an instrument, but not to do what Akemi wasn't capable of doing herself. In terms of my definition above, I'd say Akemi drew on her own dark side, so didn't need Xena to personify it as I'd originally thought. > M'Lila and Gabrielle want nothing from Xena except that she live to fulfill > her potential. I have wondered about M'Lila. I mean, without M'Lila, the world would never have had Evil Xena. That makes me wonder just exactly why she came to Xena when she did. Was it just something that happened? Or was some god working on "creating" Evil Xena? >> Oh, we still might have had Evil Xena. M'Lila asks Xena if she still hates Caesar. Xena is pondering this, when the soldiers bust in and help her answer that question. I never liked the notion of some god "creating" Xena. I saw someone presented with a series of situations, questions and choices, who decided for her own reasons why she'd take one path over another. It's not like she didn't have M'Lila, Borias, Cyane, Lao Ma and possibly others to offer her chances and alternatives, even if Ares was behind the scenes egging her on. << And Gabrielle certainly used Xena also. She saw Xena as her ticket out of Poteidia. And forced Xena to take her along by pulling out the "I saved your life" card. She also wants Xena to change to suit her (Gabrielle's) ideas of what kind of a person she should be. As late as Chakram, Gabrielle says, "Xena is everything that I always wanted her to be" and then realizes for like the 20th time that without her dark side, Xena is out of balance and not able to do what she needs to do to make things right. >> Okay, I won't get into degrees of "using," as we all have our own purposes for doing things. However, I'd have to put Gabrielle on the low end. Yes, she followed Xena, but used her own resourcefulness to get to and find Xena. I also don't see her as using Xena, just because she wanted Xena to live up to certain ideals. Yes, she had some personal investment in that, but I can't put it on the same level as what Alti or even Lao Ma wanted Xena to do for them. <> LOL! True, though usually it's when she's lost Gabrielle and expects/hopes to find Gabs again. In AFIN, I believe she was using the (perhaps permanently "lost") Gabs as inspiration. > Again, I saw that subservience as superficial and self-serving -- quite > characteristic of Delinquent Xena. She knows there'll be some payoff. I didn't see it that way at all. She IS subservient to Lao Ma. She's willing to be the Warrior Princess to Lao Ma's Queen. And seems to feel proud that Lao Ma has chosen her to be so..>> I guess I saw young Xena as having different forms of "subservience," depending on the mentor at the time. Borias and Alti liked Xena's boldness. Only Lao Ma required the kind of restraint and humility we saw, as part of the test Xena had to pass before moving on to higher studies. Xena was no fool. She knew she needed to stay in Lao Ma's good graces if she wanted to learn about Lao Ma's powers. She also saw that there was some connection between those powers and Lao Ma's lectures about "emptying" one's self. I'm not denying the special bond between them. She admired Lao Ma in a way she didn't her other "teachers." I'm simply saying that I didn't find the subservience all that notable, except as an indication that Xena would do whatever it took to learn what she wanted. < what she believes Lao Ma wants -- what Lao Ma herself seems to use -- a false > subservience that hides what's underneath. Remember all Lao Ma's talk about > being an "insignificant wife"? I would say that when Xena's showing false subservience, she let's us know it. As when she's crying to Odin because he doesn't trust her. The look over his shoulder tells us she's scamming. >> Yep, she has a similar look when she's serving Papa and Baby Ming, and later when she suggests the dice game. I didn't see her showing particular subservience to Lao Ma herself (which she said she was willing to do). I'm mainly talking about the false subservience she showed to others as part of Lao Ma's tests. << Lao Ma had saved her life. And her life on the open steppes with Borias was not easy for a disabled woman. I honestly think Xena was totally grateful and this might be part of why she was willing to do Lao Ma's bidding, to have so much patience with Lao Ma's Way (and way of teaching.) Even when she lost patience with herself, she didn't lose it with Lao Ma. >> I hate to sound like I think Xena was a total lout back then. I don't. I do believe she felt genuine affection for and respected Lao Ma in a unique way. I also believe Xena was intrigued by this deceptively powerful woman who was unlike anyone Xena had met. But Xena "belonged" to herself. Whatever gratitude and appreciation she had all went out the window in the face of her own rage and greed. Again, I think much of Xena's later angst was over not at the time having more than a superficial understanding of what she was being offered. >Lao Ma was using a blend of caring, > discipline and the promise of new toys to bring Xena along. I saw > more of a child/parent relationship than adult/adult. Yes. Or subservientee to subservientor. (wink)>> LOL! Sorry, but I see child/parent or mentor/student, rather than the subservience thing. As Lao Ma said, it wouldn't prove anything for Xena to be subservient to her, but I do think she wanted Xena to be able to achieve more humility and restraint with others, in other situations. Now that I think about it, she > was giving Xena her legs symbolically as well -- the freedom to do > what she wanted with her physical "wholeness." Xena wouldn't > necessarily need her anymore. It was a "leap of faith" on Lao Ma's > part, which Xena unfortunately did not pass -- not then, anyway. > Yup. Lao Ma overestimated Xena's subservience. (heh heh heh) >> Well, I agree with you there -- whatever we call what Xena was doing. Lucky for her, that was more of a trial run, and Lao Ma gave her some more chances. > In that scenario, Lao Ma would see more value in a Warrior Princess > to preserve that power. Again, I just don't see Xena at that point as > having some understanding of love that goes much beyond using and be > used. It's hard with the flashbacks for me to remember sometimes just > how far Xena came in that regard. > > -- Ife I think Xena remembers what love is like. I think she never stopped loving and grieving over Lyceus, for example. Nor certainly M'Lila. >> KT>> Sure, except I think she remembers love as synonymous with death (Lyceus, M'Lila) and betrayal (Caesar). She remembers it as filled with pain and grief. She doesn't trust it to ever be different. If she remembered the good moments, she sure as heck didn't seem to choose them when she had the chance. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 18:19:59 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] DEBT 1&2: Water Soft & Raging In a message dated 9/8/03 2:40:06 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: Ife writes: << No, he was a beaten, unarmed and cowardly > juvenile delinquent who was no match for her whatsoever. No doubt she > stalked up to him and killed him where he stood. Maybe he deserved it. > It's still murder in my book. Ah. I think a jury would probably pass a 'not guilty' verdict in the circumstances. >> Sure, if was made up of Xenafans (not necessarily Gabfans). << I prefer to reserve the word 'murder' for unprovoked, gratuitous killing. >> Like maybe when somebody cuts you off in their car or tailgates? << And he might have been unarmed but I think he proved that, left alive, he would still be dangerous. Lao Ma wanted Xena to rid the country of him. I think he made a pretty good case that there was only one way to do that. >> You just keep telling yourself that. << I would just have been dismayed and slightly offended if Xena had *not* killed him, after that. >> Oh, so you *do* think tailgating is sufficient provocation for murder? << Of course, TPTB played the same trick with us that Ming played with Xena, though with an opposite effect. That is, Ming led Xena to believe Lao Ma might still be alive, then rudely dashed her hopes. TPTB, right at the end, led us to believe that Ming was still alive (I was starting to groan) then the camera pans round and shows he's a stiff. Yowza!!! I must be warped - I was delighted when I saw that. ;) >> Oh, excellent point! -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 19:44:19 -0400 From: Lee Daley Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Xena has new owner, I think At 07:12 PM 9/3/2003 -0400, you wrote: >Looks like Universal will be sold to NBC. So I wonder what effect that will >have on Xena merchandising or the prospects of a Xena movie. Of course >Vevendi has been in financial trouble so a sale is no surprise. > >CheryA Can't hurt. This franchise hasn't been marketed well from the beginning. LeeD ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #267 **************************************