From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #265 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Monday, September 8 2003 Volume 03 : Number 265 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Blind Faith [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #261 [IfeRae@aol.co] Re: [chakram-refugees] Blind Faith [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #261 [cr Lucy gives a wonderful performance. Although blind she is the one who > sees > everything clearly - she knows the right path to redemption and teaches it > to > her sighted companion. I'd forgotten that Palemon was one of those Xena mentored away from the dark side. As to Lucy, I'm afraid this is the ep that she was the least convincing to me. It's almost like the whole blind thing was so ridiculous, even she didn't bother trying too hard. Given the situation, I think she did the best she could. I cracked up when she jumped over a fallen guy's legs on her way to rescuing Gabs (with no pot holders to keep from burning her hands on the hot casket). I also liked Palemon and his interactions with Xena. Truth be told, that was back when I was still fast-forwarding through the Gab parts, so it was only later that I truly appreciated the comedy of her "lady" training. My favorite scene is when Gabs squeezes the medicine in Xena's eyes. The WP looked so vulnerable and Gabs so maternal. I couldn't help but say, "awwwww." - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 01:28:30 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #261 In a message dated 9/5/2003 10:48:32 PM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: Cheryl wrote: > > I think it was a shock that La Mao returned the broach to Xena and the > >implication that came with it - that Xena had permission to kill Ming. La > >Mao was never a pacifist remember that she wanted Xena as a her Warrior > >Princess - to do her fighting for her. Xena now has conflicting emotions - > >she was on the path of murder then she turns from that and does what she > >believes La Mao wanted her to do make Ming small without murder and then > >suddenly everything turns again. > > But that was always implicit in Lao Ma's summons to Xena. Xena assumed > from > the moment she got the message that Lao Ma wanted her to kill Ming. "Who > was the Green Dragon?" "The man I'm going to kill." >> I have to agree with cr that I don't think Xena's shock stemmed from the suggestion that Lao Ma was okay with Xena's killing Ming. I think she was more stunned at Ming's news and the suggestion that Lao Ma had to have the painful foresight to give him the brooch (sealing his fate) before he killed her. The brooch also had a lot of sentimental value to Xena, which also made the moment emotional. However, I slightly disagree that killing Ming was "implicit" in Lao Ma's message as the *only* way to resolve the problem, so much as an acceptable option. I think Lao Ma trusted Xena to do what she had to, though I can't imagine Lao Ma's not thinking that Xena's first instinct would be to kill him. Unless she had her version of CNN, she also may not have known that Xena had become a tad more sensitive than during their last encounter. << There was certainly > nothing she discovered after that moment to make > her change her mind about > that. Xena had no problem with the idea of killing Ming at all. Never > did. She decided on the spur of the moment I think, that since he'd > survived the wreckage of his throne room, she'd leave it at that. Ming got > > lucky, if only he'd been smart enough to realise it. >> Yep, gotta agree with you that Xena wasn't conflicted about killing him in the least, or saw it as a betrayal of Lao Ma in any way. Gabs is the one who inadvertently presented Xena with the option to "make him small" without killing him, by having to summon up those powers. When he emerged from the rubble, I don't think she thought it necessary to finish him off at that point, perhaps satisfied that she'd dethroned a despot, avoided killing her mentor's son and made Gabs happy that her little trip hadn't been in vain. Win-win. > >By episodes end Xena is terribly confused - has she betrayed > >La Mao by killing or has she submitted to La Mao's will and killed for her. > >I don't even if Xena understands her motivations for killing Ming. Was it > >revenge, loathing, or simply obedience to La Mao? Xena at the moment > >Gabrielle returns I believe is she just very unsure of what has actually > >happened. > > > >CherylA > > I saw no confusion at all. A degree of surprise at Ming's revelation about > > his murder of Lao Ma, yes. (Remember, up until then, I don't think Xena > was aware that Ming had executed Lao Ma, though she may have had her > suspicions). >> Nope, in the end I didn't see confusion either. Or regret. I believe she felt all of what Cherly said -- revenge, loathing and loyalty to Lao Ma -- and didn't care which motivation was the most preeminent. In Xena's mind, Ming showed his true deprevation and deserved to die regardless of which reason. As I said, the last expression on Xena's face is like an unspoken snarl. Some fans saw that as "getting something over on" Gabs. I don't think it had a thing to do with Gabs, but with Xena's satisfaction at skewering Ming, which is why I think her killing him was mostly personal, but certainly not confused or repentant. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 22:07:16 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Blind Faith On Sunday 07 September 2003 17:28, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > As to Lucy, I'm afraid this is the ep that she was the least convincing to > me. It's almost like the whole blind thing was so ridiculous, even she > didn't bother trying too hard. Given the situation, I think she did the > best she could. I cracked up when she jumped over a fallen guy's legs on > her way to rescuing Gabs Echolocation? ;) > (with no pot holders to keep from burning her > hands on the hot casket). > > I also liked Palemon and his interactions with Xena. Truth be told, that > was back when I was still fast-forwarding through the Gab parts, so it was > only later that I truly appreciated the comedy of her "lady" training. My > favorite scene is when Gabs squeezes the medicine in Xena's eyes. The WP > looked so vulnerable and Gabs so maternal. I couldn't help but say, > "awwwww." > > -- Ife Oddly enough, I find that quite a watchable episode. I really can't say why. Palaemon (or rather the actor) was quite convincing, I felt, as a guy who was trying to pretend to himself (and the world) that he was the Big Bad Warlord. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 22:01:21 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #261 On Sunday 07 September 2003 17:28, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/5/2003 10:48:32 PM Central Daylight Time, > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > Cheryl wrote: > > > I think it was a shock that La Mao returned the broach to Xena and the > > >implication that came with it - that Xena had permission to kill Ming. > > > La Mao was never a pacifist remember that she wanted Xena as a her > > > Warrior Princess - to do her fighting for her. Xena now has conflicting > > > emotions - she was on the path of murder then she turns from that and > > > does what she believes La Mao wanted her to do make Ming small without > > > murder and then suddenly everything turns again. > > > > But that was always implicit in Lao Ma's summons to Xena. Xena assumed > > from > > the moment she got the message that Lao Ma wanted her to kill Ming. > > "Who was the Green Dragon?" "The man I'm going to kill." >> > > I have to agree with cr that I don't think Xena's shock stemmed from the > suggestion that Lao Ma was okay with Xena's killing Ming. I think she was > more stunned at Ming's news and the suggestion that Lao Ma had to have the > painful foresight to give him the brooch (sealing his fate) before he > killed her. The brooch also had a lot of sentimental value to Xena, which > also made the moment emotional. Yes. Odd that Xena then left it buried in Ming's brain. Maybe she didn't really want it back after that. > However, I slightly disagree that killing Ming was "implicit" in Lao Ma's > message as the *only* way to resolve the problem, so much as an acceptable > option. I think Lao Ma trusted Xena to do what she had to, though I can't > imagine Lao Ma's not thinking that Xena's first instinct would be to kill > him. Unless she had her version of CNN, she also may not have known that > Xena had become a tad more sensitive than during their last encounter. Okay, I sorta agree with you there. Lao Ma sending the message ('make him small') didn't particularly imply that he should be killed. OTOH, as you noted, it was sent to Xena, and Lao Ma must have known with a high probability what Xena would be likely to do about it. (snippage) > > > > I saw no confusion at all. A degree of surprise at Ming's revelation > > about > > his murder of Lao Ma, yes. (Remember, up until then, I don't think Xena > > was aware that Ming had executed Lao Ma, though she may have had her > > suspicions). >> (Incidentally, I was wrong about that - obviously she did know). > > Nope, in the end I didn't see confusion either. Or regret. I believe she > felt all of what Cherly said -- revenge, loathing and loyalty to Lao Ma -- > and didn't care which motivation was the most preeminent. In Xena's mind, > Ming showed his true deprevation and deserved to die regardless of which > reason. Umm, 'depravity', not 'deprivation', I think? ;) In fact, I've just re-watched and he was deliberately taunting Xena. Xena was just leaving and he calls her back. MING T'IEN You made me, Xena. You taught me to be the monster I am. XENA I know. It's part of the reason I'm here. I've learned to clean up after myself. Is that all? MING T'IEN One other thing. You probably heard that I had Lao Ma executed. XENA Yes. MING T'IEN But, I just wanted you to know, it's not true. XENA Really? MING T'IEN No. I did it myself. Now that - that obvious 'come-on' of 'it's not true', leading Xena to hope for a moment that Lao Ma might still be alive - was really twisting the knife. > As I said, the last expression on Xena's face is like an unspoken > snarl. Some fans saw that as "getting something over on" Gabs. I don't > think it had a thing to do with Gabs, but with Xena's satisfaction at > skewering Ming, which is why I think her killing him was mostly personal, > but certainly not confused or repentant. > > -- Ife The very last moment as she walks out of frame with Gabs? I see it as a grim expression, possibly caused by the fact she's just lied to Gabs about killing Ming, and also (I think) that Gabs has just pushed her into saying "Love you too, Gabrielle" - and I don't think she found that particularly appropriate, in all the circumstances. "I love you Xena" is a bit of a set-up line, a sort of moral blackmail. (I'm not putting that very well). It's the sort of thing people say when they're demanding a response. I think Xena resented having to make that 'Love you too' reply. And it showed in her face. I think she was slightly disgusted with herself at having fooled Gabs, slightly PO'd with Gabs for having put her in a position where she felt she had to, probably still PO'd with Gabs for having dropped her in it with Ming in the first place. (Gabs tried the same "I love you" at the end of Maternal Instincts, and there it didn't work *at all*.) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:58:39 -1000 (HST) From: "Jackie M. Young" Subject: [chakram-refugees] OT: Channelling XWP ;) Not to seem too self-serving here, but I just thought I'd share this story with y'all. ;) I was in a major auto accident as a pedestrian (the car _literally_ ran me over!), and only got out of the hospital last Weds. 9/3. I was in the hospital only 6 days (the accident happened on 8/28), and although I wasn't _consciously_ thinking about it , I must've been channelling X somehow.......?? ;) I was conscious the whole time, and I remember the car tires rolling over my body and what the underside of the car looked like. Although the ER people wanted to operate, I told them to avoid it if at all possible. Luckily, my body responded positively to their non-surgical procedures, so they didn't have to operate. Although I had 2 fractured ribs, a nurse there *forced* me to get out of bed and sit up in a chair on the 3rd day, then I thought to myself that she was right, if I just laid around because of the pain, I would never get up. I might've been thinking of that scene in COWar when X pulls the arrow out of her body, I'm not sure.....?? But once I got it into my head that I would ignore the pain, I just recouperated very quickly. The next day (4th), I asked to use the walker on my own. The day after that, I was walking without the walker. When the doctor told me he thought my progress was just amazing, I told him I was Club Coordinator of our local XWP Club, after all.... I told the nurse who forced me to sit up that she was a lot like X, and she and the other nurses kept calling me X when I'd forage out into the hallway..... So maybe X saved my life.....?? ;=) Just FYI, ;) - --Jackie ****************************************************** * Proud to have the same birthday as Lucy Lawless! * * * * "I think New Zealand geographically comes from * * ... Hawai'i." --Lucy Lawless, Late Show, 4/9/96 * * * * "Feel the fear and do it anyway." --Lucy Lawless, * * Evening Post, 7/4/98 * * * * JACKIE YOUNG, JYOUNG@LAVA.NET * * * ****************************************************** ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 22:05:30 -0400 (EDT) From: cjlnh@webtv.net (Cheryl LaScola) Subject: [chakram-refugees] "Charming" homage to Xena Just caught the season finale of Charmed in which the three were turned into goddesses (incl. goddess of love and war), they slayed the Titans and then at the end when all was restored, Alyssa Milano says to "Paige: so are you tires of being a warrior princess? & Paige repeats the phrase.... Then in the season opener teaser they are advertised (and shown) as Amazons with the ep entitled "Valkyrie Vixens"...... mmmmm...is one of the writers an ex-Xena story teller??? RT and LL should get royalties or something... ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 20:14:47 -0700 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] "Charming" homage to Xena >Then in the season opener teaser they are advertised (and shown) as >Amazons with the ep entitled "Valkyrie Vixens"...... mmmmm...is one of >the writers an ex-Xena story teller??? I know! Are they Valkryries or Amazons? Two COMPLETELY different sets of women warriors. Actually, anyone notice how everyone dresses Amazons like Xena now? AND, in the second episode of the fourth season, Charmed featured the Furies. And the three ladies dressed EXACTLY like they did on Xena, and no, that ain't their mythical look. BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "No glass slipper can quiet the ghosts that haunt a psyche." - Jewel's CHASING DOWN THE DAWN _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #265 **************************************