From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #240 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, August 21 2003 Volume 03 : Number 240 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] Lucy/Renee 2003 Pasadena Convention DVD/VHS response [] Re: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs ["Xena Torres" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs ["mirrordrum" <] Re: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs ["Creation (Sha] Re: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs ["Creation (Sha] Re: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs [Cousin Liz ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH ["mirrordrum" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs ["mirrordrum" <] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:39:55 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH In a message dated 8/21/03 12:07:18 AM Central Daylight Time, aemoses@comcast.net writes: << > I mentioned in an earlier post that I didn't see the Herc trilogy until > after nearly a year of Xena, which definitely influenced my response -- made me > more critical of the Xena in those Herc eps. hmmmmm. i'd love to know how. i just blew off the 3rd part--the affair with herc--cause i found it a yawner and i don't like those idiotic monsters. >> I think it's mainly that she wasn't the focal point, the hero, in the Herc eps. I liked her okay before her reformation, as I saw the kernels of what would be developed in XWP. What I didn't like was the diffidence around Herc after her reformation. In XWP, I was used to seeing her as the "top banana." It was hard for me to then go back and see her as a guest character. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:39:49 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH In a message dated 8/21/03 2:28:41 AM Central Daylight Time, aemoses@comcast.net writes: << i thought lucy did a very good job and wondered what she tapped to get that. i particularly liked it b/c in she'd had to let solan go again and this time, she really was making a connection.>> Yes, I always thought (if I were an actor) that it would be very difficult for me draw on what it would feel like to lose my own child. Brrrr. I agree that Lucy made the scream come out like I thought Xena would do it -- raw, almost primal, like it had been torn from her. It seemed "right" in that sense. Somehow, it just struck me as more cerebral, though -- more like, Lucy *thought* that's what Xena would do, rather than *felt* it. No biggie, though. More like cr's splitting hairs. << i was quite willing to buy it and found it powerful much as i balked at her over-the-top blaming of gabrielle who had, imo, done pretty much the same thing. and no, i don't feel the need to drag out that old theme and pound on it any more. >> LOL! But I suspect we'll need to do a lot of such pounding with new people on the list and no new episodes to beat to death. > "Path to Vengeance" when Xena's consoling Gabs (to the "Ides" jail scene > music) after Varia beans the bard. the scene was ok as far as i was concerned and the scene was perfect. so beautifully understated. just superb. >> I think the music annoyed me more than anything, for some reason. As I said, I felt like TPTB were overdoing the "okay, this is a tender moment" hints, as though I couldn't figure that out for myself. I felt the same when I heard that kind of Western refrain from the end of "Sin Trade," which was repeated as the Amazons salute X&G at the end of PoV. In the past I was aware of certain theme music being replayed, but was particularlary conscious (and often irritated) when I heard it during S6. It didn't feel seemless, but like somebody was plunking it in as "Xena's working" music or "X&G are showing tenderness" or "this is about Amazons." Sorry, just another nitpick. See, you're not the only one who had some things to get off her chest. >The main time I felt Lucy wasn't going through rote > "sensitive Xena" responses was in "Fates," possibly because she was playing a > "new" Xena. well, i didn't like really at all. except for xena in her leathers which was an outfit simply for to die. walking up the steps that first time to meet caesar? oh my. but i digress. >> LOL! I won't comment on "Fates" except to say I generally liked what Lucy did with that version of Xena in the context of the story we had. I'm sure she was giving those scenes her best shot, but I don't think > her nearly dry tank was helped any by TJs that felt dropped in to make people > feel better about TPTBs "sins of the past" in some fans' eyes. <> Yeah, I wasn't "feeling" S5 much, though I really liked "Animal Attraction" and "Lyre." On the other hand, I did feel proud that my favorite show would incorporate Lucy's pregnancy. << i don't think tptb really knew what to do and i can understand that. the subtext fans--some of us (i wasn't one of them)-- were dissatisfied with the amount of supposedly overt subtext. somewhere someone got the deluded idea that people in same gender relationships tell each other "i love you" every time they turn around and that they had to show some kind of lip lock to pay homage. they seemed to think that doing this (endlessly attesting one's undying devotion) means something about the strength of the relationship. >> Yes, this is another of those beat to death topics. The irony is that I thought TPTB did a pretty good of following their vision and incorporating fan feedback that strengthened the show. I believe they tried to go beyond that in S6, which meant trying things that didn't represent their strengths and imposing other sensibilties they didn't know what to do with. <> Ditto. I never had a problem with it being "their" show and thought they did an extraordinary job of making so many of us feel that it was "ours." I feel lucky they pushed through S6 and gave us so many more moments to enjoy. << yep. absolutely. and for my money, the strength of the relationship--however one viewed it--was best expressed through humour, sticking up for each other or occasional emotional subtlety. i thought was excellent in this regard as were and the sappho gift ending in . now *that* was superb (imo). both lucy and ren were very fine. and i thought the scene could have been interpreted from virtually any relationship point of view which is nice. >> Ditto again. Even the arguments were based on knowing and caring about each other so much. I loved the bits in "Sickness" and "Shoe Fits," where they get on each other's nerves, which ADITL had as well. < and . now those scenes got me b/c they were, first of all, superbly done by kev who, imo, was one of the best actors in the series and b/c they weren't being thrown at us so incesssantly. and i lvoed that they kept having xena "feel something" and to me, the relationship between gab and xena was often at its most interesting and piquant when they were wrangling over xena and some guy. i like that.>> Yes again. You remind me that I'll treasure S6 if for no other reason than getting to see so much of Kevin. He once talked about the triangle between the three characters -- a chemistry that to me was almost as significant as the one between LL/ROC. He knew exactly what role Ares played in that, with Gabrielle as Ares' "rival" on whatever level one chose. I watched "Old Ares" recently and thought how lucky we were to have witnessed such a wonderful talent and that someone so perfect would portray Ares. <> LOL! We'll take it however we can get it. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 16:30:14 -0700 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Lucy/Renee 2003 Pasadena Convention DVD/VHS response For those who have been asking. I'm hoping there will be enough demand to release it on VHS as well, but, for now, it's only on DVD. If you send me a message asking for VHS, I'll put them in a folder and when my bosses ask if there's any demand, I'll whip it out Sharon ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:10:55 -0700 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs As far as I know, the distributor is the one who makes and puts out the DVD, though I could be totally wrong. But on the "Army of Darkness" DVD, Bruce Campbell thanks Anchor Bay for being the company to get them out there. And if it is different people who make vs who distributes it, either way, I'm sure the distributer knows what's on the product they are putting out. BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" >From: "mirrordrum" >To: "Xena Torres" , , >, , > >Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs >Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:35:17 -0400 > >thanks for posting this and i do still find it confusing. sharon said, >iirc, >thatthe dvds are being produced by davis-panzer and that anchor bay is >simply one of the distributors of the d-p product. yet this note from >anchor >makes it sound as though *they're* the ones who are doing it. all that >about >xena being their passion. > >i've got an order in at amazon.com and i assume there's only one company >releasing season 2. if not and i have a choice betw d-p and anchor bay, >i'll >take anchor bay. i presume there's no choice involved except the choice of >distributor. sharon? anyone? has this changed? > >md > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Xena Torres" >To: ; ; >; >Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 5:30 PM >Subject: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs > > > > When I heard the rumors of season one being rereleased with commentary, >I > > know I wasn't the only season one DVD owner who was fuming over that. I > > contacted Anchor Bay several weeks ago, and just when I was beginning to > > think my note was ignored, the president of the company sent this: > > > > > > >Thank you for your note and please excuse the delay in getting back to >you. > > > The joys of generic >email addresses. > > > > >First and foremost, we appreciate your support of our release. While >we > > >would have liked to been >able to include footage from Lucy, Renee and > > >others in the first season release, we were unable to >do so for >various > > >reasons. As both fans of the show and the distributor of the DVD >series, > > >we >recognize the importance of including this material on the release >and > > >are pleased that we are working >closely with the stars who have >graciously > > >agreed to participate in our upcoming season two. We are >not planning >on > > >re-releasing Season One with additional content. I know the fans will >be > > >as excited as >we are with the Season Two package and that has been >where > > >we have been focusing all of our >efforts. > > > > >Again, we appreciate your email and support. Xena is not just one of >our > > >titles, it is one of our >passions so we always welcome the suggestions >and > > >feedback from our fellow fans! > > > > > >With best regards, > > > > > >Dave Vasile > > >President, Anchor Bay Entertainment > > > > That just made my day! As much as I would LOVE season one commentary, I >have > > no interest in shelling out another $100 not even two months since the > > release. It's nice to know that DVD distributers ARE actually listening. > > Cool. > > So, THERE'S some official word for you. ;) > > BATTLE ON XENA! > > > > Xena Torres: Warrior Writer > > http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome > > > > "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the >sword > > never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > ========================================================= > > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > > ========================================================= >========================================================= >This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. >To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with >"unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. >Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. >========================================================= _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:16:27 -0400 From: "mirrordrum" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Xena Torres" To: Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs > As far as I know, the distributor is the one who makes and puts out the DVD, > though I could be totally wrong. um. that's not my understanding. d-p made the season 1 dvds (produced them via esclusive contract w/ susa) but they were distributed (sold) by d-p, amazon, best buy, anchor and i don't know who else for varying costs and with varying add-ons. yes? md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:32:28 -0700 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs Well, I'm puzzled. Rob's the one who gave me the list of what they recorded for season one. So what they're actually going to do with that material, I don't know. D-P is the one in charge. The "passion" exuding from AB is advertising copy I just posted a bit about season two on the fan club page (including a photo of the cover of the ones we received) and I'm hoping all the sets, no matter who sells them, are the same. But until we can compare Best Buy with someone else's, we just won't know. Sharon >thanks for posting this and i do still find it confusing. sharon said, iirc, >thatthe dvds are being produced by davis-panzer and that anchor bay is >simply one of the distributors of the d-p product. yet this note from anchor >makes it sound as though *they're* the ones who are doing it. all that about >xena being their passion. > >i've got an order in at amazon.com and i assume there's only one company >releasing season 2. if not and i have a choice betw d-p and anchor bay, i'll >take anchor bay. i presume there's no choice involved except the choice of >distributor. sharon? anyone? has this changed? > >md > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Xena Torres" >To: ; ; >; >Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 5:30 PM >Subject: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs > > >> When I heard the rumors of season one being rereleased with commentary, I >> know I wasn't the only season one DVD owner who was fuming over that. I >> contacted Anchor Bay several weeks ago, and just when I was beginning to >> think my note was ignored, the president of the company sent this: >> >> >> >Thank you for your note and please excuse the delay in getting back to >you. >> > The joys of generic >email addresses. >> >> >First and foremost, we appreciate your support of our release. While we >> >would have liked to been >able to include footage from Lucy, Renee and >> >others in the first season release, we were unable to >do so for various >> >reasons. As both fans of the show and the distributor of the DVD series, >> >we >recognize the importance of including this material on the release >and >> >are pleased that we are working >closely with the stars who have >graciously >> >agreed to participate in our upcoming season two. We are >not planning >on >> >re-releasing Season One with additional content. I know the fans will be >> >as excited as >we are with the Season Two package and that has been where >> >we have been focusing all of our >efforts. >> >> >Again, we appreciate your email and support. Xena is not just one of our >> >titles, it is one of our >passions so we always welcome the suggestions >and >> >feedback from our fellow fans! >> > >> >With best regards, >> > >> >Dave Vasile >> >President, Anchor Bay Entertainment >> >> That just made my day! As much as I would LOVE season one commentary, I >have >> no interest in shelling out another $100 not even two months since the >> release. It's nice to know that DVD distributers ARE actually listening. >> Cool. >> So, THERE'S some official word for you. ;) >> BATTLE ON XENA! >> >> Xena Torres: Warrior Writer >> http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome >> >> "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the >sword >> never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* >> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail >> ========================================================= >> This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. >> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with >> "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. >> Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. >> ========================================================= >========================================================= >This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. >To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with >"unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. >Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. >========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:35:12 -0700 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs The distributor is not the one who makes them. The company that has the license is the one who makes them. Sometimes they distribute as well. In this case, D-P has the license, they also distribute them and Anchor Bay is one of their distributors. Sharon >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Xena Torres" >To: >Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 8:10 PM >Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs > > >> As far as I know, the distributor is the one who makes and puts out the >DVD, >> though I could be totally wrong. > >um. that's not my understanding. d-p made the season 1 dvds (produced them >via esclusive contract w/ susa) but they were distributed (sold) by d-p, >amazon, best buy, anchor and i don't know who else for varying costs and >with varying add-ons. yes? > >md >========================================================= >This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. >To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with >"unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. >Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. >========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:57:17 -0400 From: Cousin Liz Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" wrote: > I just posted a bit about season two on the fan club page url, please. And is this the place where you posted a Lucy pic? If not, what is the url for that? - -- Cousin Liz eas01@fast.net Soulmates Xena Dinosaur Bards http://cousinliz.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 21:15:48 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] RE" ITADITH Jackies wrote "And that point just *begs* the question: _Did_ G have that big of a hold on X at this point in their relationship, or was it just OTT acting (in Thel's words) on LL's part that made us think that?? IMO, the reaction didn't fit the earlier relationship as it was revealed to us on-screen. ;P'" Actually Gabby does have this big of a hold on Xena. Xena said in The Ties That Bind something to the effect that the families we make can be more more important than does of blood. Then she says our frindship binds us closer than blood ever could. In Prodigal Xena is offended that Gabrielle sees the need for her blood family. The relatioship is growing and now it is fully revealed how deep it is. The audience is now being shown how important that relationship is. "- --_That_ was the bit that *really* made me *wince*. ;P That plaintive "Don't leave me, don't leave me" was *so weak*, a warrior like X with *lotsa* experience with death (even of her close brother Lyceus) wouldn't have been reduced to a *blubbering idiot*, IMO. ;P" Why is that weak? Why is it that revealing strong emotion or love is considered weak? Warriors have always had strong emotions - David wept for Jonathon - was David being "girly, girl". Perhaps it is that we have been conditioned by one too many John Wayne moviesthat strong people never show their emotions or perhaps they have no emotions except a kind of aloof affection for those around them. That everyone should be an island suffiecent unto themselves. Xena was weak, I assume, because it is suddenly revealed that she needed some one and loved them. I think to admit that you love some one is a sign of strength and not weakness. - - --Yup. :) That scene was such a typical "woman crying over loved one" scene, one that I *thought* TPTB had vowed never to write, at least this early on?? Wasn't it RJ who said that they deliberately wrote X as masculine, that is, without all the usual female foibles such as blubbering, playing the victim, waiting for others to save her, etc., and yet IMO that's exactly the way they wrote the CPR scene?? ;=P What do you mean men or real men don't cry when some one they love dies? Got news for you, they do. They wept for their dead children, their dead wives and in war they weep for their dead commrades. I don't think the powers ever meant to make Xena a man in drag. She is a woman as evidenced by the fact that she put on a slinky red dress to seduce Caesar. She didn't offer him a couple of beers and engage in a burbing contest with him. Xena is a woman and she acts like a woman here. She gets upset that her friend is in danger, exhibts her emotions and then sets about fixing things without the help of any of the men around her. In fact the men that you somehow believe saved Xena were urging her to give up and Xena ignored them to saved the day. I would call that femine in the best sense. G would've been the *blubbering type*, and X would've been the "hold-it-all-in/take-out-the-anger-in-another-form" type. This is your expectation of the characters and actually is a very sterotypical view of them. Gabrielle is the young bard and therefore is suppose to the weepy one and Xena is the warrior so she must always be in control i.e. Gabrielle is the girl and is weak Xena is the man therefore strong. In actuality the series never succumbed to such sterotypiong. Gabrielle has always been the one with more control over emotions than Xena. She is in many ways a pragmatist. When Gabrielle deals with situations when Xena dies - she doesn't ever loose it. She does what she has to - ITGG she goes to find help for the village, in The Quest she decides to make a life with the Amazons, even when Xena is crippled in Ides of March Gabby doesn't sit down and weep she takes up arms to defend her. Gabrielle is much more detached than Xena ever is. She is the bard - the observer of life and the analyzer of things around her. She doesn't let events control her she tries to control them. When Xena tries to kill Hope in GH Gabrielle doesn't weep or beg she deals with the situation and outsmarts Xena. Gabrielle never was the blubbering type. Xena on the other hand is much more swayed by emotions. Xena admits this over and over. She knows her rage and grief makes her act in ways that are disasterous for herself and those around her. Xena's struggle is to control herself and not let her emotions over take her. If Xena appears controlled it is because she is making a concious effort to control herself. This is a woman of vulcanic emotion. She doesn't let it out often but shen she does it is usually when some one she loves is killed. In the past she could only express her grief in rage but now she has the ability to show her grief in a way that is not destructive or selfish. Possibly for the first time in her life she grieves in a normal human way and because she does not become self-indulgent she is able to save some one she loves, for the first time. Xena's "blubbering" is not a sign of weakness but a sign of growth. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 21:54:20 -0400 From: "mirrordrum" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH - ----- Original Message ----- From: "cr" To: "mirrordrum" ; ; Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 4:20 AM Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH > On Thursday 21 August 2003 16:52, mirrordrum wrote: > > (gratuitous and desperate snippage) > > > > the xena we're presented with in the series (and i think some amongst > > us felt this about OAAA) is not one who loses control in that way. . .at > > least not until gab comes along. i found her reaction in > > perfectly in character. she would go nuts in just that way: with intensity, > > direction, with a vengeance. > > Oh, nicely put. thankee. Yes, I find it quite in character that Xena would go off > 3000 miles to try to rescue Gabs. Maybe even go slightly off her head in > the process. slightly? SLIGHTLY? if that's slightly, m'dear, what would completely look like? ;) I just don't see her breaking down and losing it like she did > in ITADITH. of course, all this is *so* post-mortem but fun nonetheless. is there any of it you *would* buy? since you don't like gab anyway, let's say just for the sake of argument, it were m'lila. or better yet, let's consider her response to the loss of m'lila, realizing that this antedated her relationship with gab by eversomuch. has this been discussed and i missed it? if so, sorry and you can just tell me it's been dealt with. admittedly, xena didn't try to save m'lila b/c at that time she hadn't supplemented her non-inconsiderable basic skills with the healing genius she later manifested. but her reaction was certainly emotion. you say: > > And as you know, I have a low threshold of tolerance when it comes to > emotionalism. ;) now what do you consider "emotionalism?" when the romans off m'lila, i would say that xena gets just the least little bit emotional. her emotion, however, is vicious, violent but nonetheless grief-driven. when eve is in danger, i would say xena gets just the teensiest bit emotional. she also gets mad and even. so it isn't really emotional you're talking about, imo, but rather when xena (or anyone?) shows certain kinds of emotion: grief, direct pain (as in crying), a certain softness perhaps? or it's how they show those things. i don't know if you differentiate between actors and people in real life. i do. i think it's both fun and important to clarify these things b/c there is a tendency to describe as acceptable in xena emotions and their outcomes stereotypically assigned to men (violence, anger, hatred, direct revenge). well, by acceptable i mean that nobody accuses her of being wimpy when she gets grief stricken and beats the stuffing out of somebody. what's the kiwi equivalent of wimpy or soft? we are much more tolerant of xena's (yawn) dark, self-sufficient side than of her more vulnerable side. nope, that's not ture. many people like(d) that side of her and i did sometimes. it depended on how it was enacted. about did me in for example. what i want to know is first of all, how do you define (acceptable) emotionalism, specifically for xena. second, what do you think xena would have done and should have done had the person who coded in been m'lila whom you like rather than gab whom you don't? would it have made any difference to you? do you feel that her violent response to m'lila's death based on significantly less relationship time than xena's time with gab was appropriate? if so, what's the difference? btw, i ask that of anyone myself included. I am *much* more likely to get emotional myself when the > characters on screen are holding back. In a way, it's similar to the way . . . if the characters on > screen are breaking down and yelling or crying, they have to be *very* > convincing to stop me from reacting "oh, grow up!!" (Unsympathetic bastard > that I am :) OTOH, if the _situation_ is such that strong emotions are > evoked (e.g. with Solan at the end of Orphan of War) and if the characters > aren't showing it (or, as in OOW, aren't able to let themselves show it) > then it 'gets' to me. Then I'm the one who feels the emotion. i think this is quite fascinating and also quite true for most of us. there's something, possibly cultural, about seeing *strong* people coping stoically with what we know to be extreme pain that we respect and admire. it's also a basic tenet of acting, is it not? the holding back? in acting, what little i know of it, i believe there's emphasis on the "less is more" presentation of emotion. one of my current favorite films is "iris" with judi dench as the older iris murdoch who has alzheimer's. of course, imo, you don't get much better than dench and i don't expect lucy or ren to be her. in the commentary that goes along with the dvd, the producer or director, i forget which, talks about her ability not to insert herself between the character and the audience--she really takes backstage to the character so that even when she's raving and anguished, she's *never* sentimental. and perhaps the most intensely emotional scenes in the movie involve a look of such absence and so little action, that i stand constantly in awe. i think maybe sentimentality, or lack thereof, is what it comes down to (and here i'm stealing from david mamet although he calls it "truth"). to get across the truth of a character's emotion is perhaps to do emotion without sentimentality. i think i found many of the protestations between x and g sentimental and therefore untrue (or sometimes untrue and thus sentimental). mind you, i don't blame the actors and i'm not really complaining. i think both lucy and renee in (off the top) , , , and , kevin always and hudson leick in and much of nailed difficult emotion a lot of the time. lucy with akemi's ashes was astounding. i thought ren did a very good job in, oh, uh, , especially in the "don't you *dare* blame me" part, a contained blaze. and in the windy bit at the end. she doesn't do well with emotion--doesn't like to display it so i give her props for what she did.another excellent moment to my mind was the fireside scene between gab and callisto where they play "the game." superb. i'm keeping in mind, too, the kind of schedule and pressures they were working under, the short rehearsal times, fatigue, cold, heat, etc. i think given the circumstances and the heavy load each of them, and particularly lucy, carried, the intense nature of the work and the demands of the fans, they did an amazing job. all credit to them. so this isn't my expectation that they should or could have done more. it's just fun chatting. > > Or the end of FIN, that was another good example that would have been ruined > if Gabs had let loose a torrent of emotion on the deck of the ship. IMO. absolutely. > > Gosh md, this tendency of yours to reflective rambling must be catching ;) some things just don't change, do they? love it when you ramble. like the good old days. > > > > > As I said, I also thought the Solan scene felt more contrived, though I > > > hadn't realized Lucy thought so too. > > > > i'd be interested in what you felt was contrived. and for those who don't > > know, lucy said of that scene from "i thought the last, parting > > scene. . .played way too long. . .i was disappointed in the way i performed > > it. i would have kept the lid down harder, held it down tighter, so that > > the pain was greater. i kick myself about that one. . ." > > Hey, Lucy knows *exactly* what I was getting at. Except, I think she got > it right, in that scene. yep. i agree. and yes, she does know what you're talking about and so do you. you're talking about actors telling the truth as best they can. of course, you're talking about more than that but in re: xena, i think that's what you're talking about. both lucy and renee worked for that. they talk about it, about trying to find the truth of their characters. not easy when everyone else is throwing their version of the "truth" at you. bless 'em! md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:52:59 -0400 From: "mirrordrum" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs thanks sharon. i had a feeling it might be an advertising thing. i mean, d-p gets pretty enthusiastic about the warrior princess too but they haven't a clue. of course, it would be a bit silly to say "yeah, well, we're distributing these but, frankly, they bore us to tears." heh! actually, my dear, i don't give a damn how they *feel* about them, i care about how good a job they do on the product. md - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" To: "mirrordrum" Cc: ; Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 8:32 PM Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs > Well, I'm puzzled. Rob's the one who gave me the list of what they > recorded for season one. So what they're actually going to do with that > material, I don't know. D-P is the one in charge. The "passion" exuding > from AB is advertising copy > > I just posted a bit about season two on the fan club page (including a > photo of the cover of the ones we received) and I'm hoping all the sets, no > matter who sells them, are the same. But until we can compare Best Buy > with someone else's, we just won't know. > > Sharon > > > >thanks for posting this and i do still find it confusing. sharon said, iirc, > >thatthe dvds are being produced by davis-panzer and that anchor bay is > >simply one of the distributors of the d-p product. yet this note from anchor > >makes it sound as though *they're* the ones who are doing it. all that about > >xena being their passion. > > > >i've got an order in at amazon.com and i assume there's only one company > >releasing season 2. if not and i have a choice betw d-p and anchor bay, i'll > >take anchor bay. i presume there's no choice involved except the choice of > >distributor. sharon? anyone? has this changed? > > > >md > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Xena Torres" > >To: ; ; > >; > >Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 5:30 PM > >Subject: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs > > > > > >> When I heard the rumors of season one being rereleased with commentary, I > >> know I wasn't the only season one DVD owner who was fuming over that. I > >> contacted Anchor Bay several weeks ago, and just when I was beginning to > >> think my note was ignored, the president of the company sent this: > >> > >> > >> >Thank you for your note and please excuse the delay in getting back to > >you. > >> > The joys of generic >email addresses. > >> > >> >First and foremost, we appreciate your support of our release. While we > >> >would have liked to been >able to include footage from Lucy, Renee and > >> >others in the first season release, we were unable to >do so for various > >> >reasons. As both fans of the show and the distributor of the DVD series, > >> >we >recognize the importance of including this material on the release > >and > >> >are pleased that we are working >closely with the stars who have > >graciously > >> >agreed to participate in our upcoming season two. We are >not planning > >on > >> >re-releasing Season One with additional content. I know the fans will be > >> >as excited as >we are with the Season Two package and that has been where > >> >we have been focusing all of our >efforts. > >> > >> >Again, we appreciate your email and support. Xena is not just one of our > >> >titles, it is one of our >passions so we always welcome the suggestions > >and > >> >feedback from our fellow fans! > >> > > >> >With best regards, > >> > > >> >Dave Vasile > >> >President, Anchor Bay Entertainment > >> > >> That just made my day! As much as I would LOVE season one commentary, I > >have > >> no interest in shelling out another $100 not even two months since the > >> release. It's nice to know that DVD distributers ARE actually listening. > >> Cool. > >> So, THERE'S some official word for you. ;) > >> BATTLE ON XENA! > >> > >> Xena Torres: Warrior Writer > >> http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome > >> > >> "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the > >sword > >> never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" > >> > >> _________________________________________________________________ > >> The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > >> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > >> ========================================================= > >> This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > >> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > >> "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > >> Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > >> ========================================================= > >========================================================= > >This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > >To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > >"unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > >Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > >========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #240 **************************************