From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #239 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, August 21 2003 Volume 03 : Number 239 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH [] Re: [chakram-refugees] ITADITH ["S. Wilson" ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH ["S. Wilson" ] WOW Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH On Thursday 21 August 2003 19:22, mirrordrum wrote: I was going to reply to lfe's message but lost it. (No, not like Xena 'lost it' in ITADITH, it just went missing ;) So please excuse me md if I reply to some bits of hers and some of yours.... > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 1:47 AM > Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH > > > I found your post on another of my computers. Oh well, I'll respond > > to > > > this bit: > > okay :) > > > In a message dated 8/19/2003 9:48:14 PM Central Daylight Time, > > > > aemoses@comcast.net writes: > > > i remember sharon delaney writing in a sort of > > > teaser post after she'd seen the preview of that the > > resuscitation > > > > scene had been a tear-jerker for her. i was therefore anticipating > > something > > > > quite different. i liked some bits alright but it just. . .i dunno. . > > .it > > > > just didn't work for me although i do love some of the shots. > > > > OK, on Xena's grief we disagree about "Doctor," > > yep--with the exception that i agree with you that it served a function and > was. . .well, novel. > > >agree about "Maternal > > Instincts," > > now i don't think i commented on that. i read bits and pieces of the > discussion tho. i didn't really have much trouble with that largely b/c i > think people in general don't realize that children one has lost, however > one has lost them, can be symbolically as important as children who are in > one's life. to me, it was a nod to the depth of xena's loss and the loss of > the relationship she imagined she might have had. and of course it was also > necessary to justify the rift. > > i thought lucy did a very good job and wondered what she tapped to get > that. i particularly liked it b/c in she'd had to let solan go > again and this time, she really was making a connection. what got to me was > her saying "i'm here. mama's here." (or words to that effect). that really > tore me up. Tore me up too. Notice how she was quite restrained until she let out that scream. That was effective, I thought. She was refusing to believe he was dead, hoping against hope that he was still alive, till she couldn't hold off the realisation any longer. And the look she gave Callisto when she hunted her down in the village square - - that was chilling. Remorseless, relentless, implacable. Nice work. > how many women would give their heart and soul to be able to > say those words to a child they've lost and i include children lost by > miscarriage or abodtion. i think you must carry that with you always. now, > whether it would have burst out like that, the scream, i don't know. i was > quite willing to buy it and found it powerful much as i balked at her > over-the-top blaming of gabrielle who had, imo, done pretty much the same > thing. and no, i don't feel the need to drag out that old theme and pound > on it any more. Just as well. > >and now agree on "Abyss." During most of the sixth season, I felt Lucy > > wasn't "feeling it" during such tear-jerker (TJ) scenes. > > absolutely. who could? > > > I felt that was > > partly because she'd already done them to death and partly because the > > scenes were > > written to tie up loose ends. I mean, come on - out of nowhere Gabs > > suddenly > > goes back to thoughts of Hope in the "Abyss"? It felt as "natural" as > > Xena > > apologizing to Gabs in "Coming Home" for beaning the bard with the > > chakram, As everybody noticed. But IIRC, Gabs didn't choose the moment to apologise to Eve for trying to stab her, which I thought was an omission. (Okay, I know in both cases the Furies were to blame, but since everybody was suddenly being so polite.... ) > or > > in "Path to Vengeance" when Xena's consoling Gabs (to the "Ides" jail > > scene > > music) after Varia beans the bard. > > the scene was ok as far as i was concerned and the scene was > perfect. so beautifully understated. just superb. Yep, that Ides scene I could accept in the context. > > >The main time I felt Lucy wasn't going through rote > > "sensitive Xena" responses was in "Fates," possibly because she was > > playing a "new" Xena. (I'm sure KT will have words to say about that. When she gets back from killing a moose or whatever it is they do for fun in the frozen north). > well, i didn't like really at all. except for xena in her leathers > which was an outfit simply for to die. walking up the steps that first time > to meet caesar? oh my. but i digress. Yes! I was just looking at a bit of the ep (the fight with Alti in the meadow - that was Mt Mangere, within a few yards of the very first sight of Xena in HTLJ Warrior Princess, and the very first shot in XWP riding her horse through the trees - I find that quite fascinating - but I digress!) - anyway, even I noticed how cool her leather gear was. Nice. > > I'm sure she was giving those scenes her best shot, but I don't think > > her nearly dry tank was helped any by TJs that felt dropped in to make > > people > > feel better about TPTBs "sins of the past" in some fans' eyes. I *never* felt TJ's helped. ;) > agreed. i wasn't happy abt season 5 (i was very cranky) and agree they > tried to make up for it in season 5. iirc, thelo was one of the few who > liked season 5, a season i've really enjoyed in reruns. odd that. You're right, I did. Not that I think it was necessarily as great a season as Season 3, in terms of the overall theme, and the baby sure didn't help, but notwithstanding that they managed a considerable number of very good eps. Considering the impediment that the baby was, they did remarkably well IMO. I do recall you being cranky about it, md.... I think maybe you were being influenced by the general current of disapprobation about it. Or maybe, knowing you, you weren't and it was something else. > i was in > a mood. i didn't like them changing so many things at the beginning of a > season that involved xena/lucy getting preggers. and i missed the chemistry > and i didn't like curtsy and orkins or whoever they were. That'd be it - I think possibly you were expecting something different from what you got. Same reason I didn't enjoy ADITL. And second time around, you knew what to expect, so weren't disappointed. > > > It felt like > > TPTB were trying too hard to "honor" the relationship before it hit the > > fan > > (ooo, an unintentional double entendre) at the end. :-) > > i don't think tptb really knew what to do and i can understand that. the > subtext fans--some of us (i wasn't one of them)-- were dissatisfied with > the amount of supposedly overt subtext. somewhere someone got the deluded > idea that people in same gender relationships tell each other "i love you" > every time they turn around and that they had to show some kind of lip lock > to pay homage. they seemed to think that doing this (endlessly attesting > one's undying devotion) means something about the strength of the > relationship. pah! this is on a par with having xena say, or was it gab, in > that "people who love each other don't argue." helLO? I forgave that because it was a comedy, and otherwise brilliant, but I agree with your point entirely. > i do not know > in what world these people live. people who love each other may express > love often, i certainly do, but not by constant displays of sappyness. or > well, not in my book. having said that, i must also say that i have great > respect for what tptb did in the series, i think they had a damned > difficult job and i think they did their best. i didn't always agree with > what they did but i love the show and the things i liked were as numberless > as the stars. Beautifully and eloquently put, md. And I hope my bitchin' about parts of it doesn't hide the fact that I feel pretty much the same way. In *exactly* the way people in love find little things to nitpick about, so I find fascination in picking the show apart, good bits as well as bad. > > What made such TJ scenes more powerful to me in the past was that they > > seemed > > like precious moments stolen amidst all the drama. To Jackie and cr's > > point, > > I did feel there was restraint in terms of not overdoing grief, of > > letting the love between the characters come out mostly in small ways, in > > their humor, > > as an outgrowth of the story (as the grief was in "Doctor," "Sin Trade," > > "Ides," "Maternal Instincts"). We might disagree about how the > > grief/regret was > > expressed, but we *might* agree that it wasn't dropped in out of context, > > like I felt it was in "Abyss" and a lot of S6. Yes, I'd agree on that point. And 'Abyss' did look very like a set-up job. > yep. absolutely. and for my money, the strength of the > relationship--however one viewed it--was best expressed through humour, > sticking up for each other or occasional emotional subtlety. i thought > was excellent in this regard as were and the sappho gift > ending in . now *that* was superb (imo). both lucy and ren were very > fine. and i thought the scene could have been interpreted from virtually > any relationship point of view which is nice. Umm, yes, it didn't cause me too much grief > i was also very touched by ares (kevin's work) in both the end of > and . now those scenes got me b/c they were, first of all, > superbly done by kev who, imo, was one of the best actors in the series and > b/c they weren't being thrown at us so incesssantly. and i lvoed that they > kept having xena "feel something" and to me, the relationship between gab > and xena was often at its most interesting and piquant when they were > wrangling over xena and some guy. i like that. Even I liked that, too. And the 'will she won't she' Ares relationship. That made it intriguing. And I see it as almost independent of subtext, Xena wasn't the most domesticated of grrls, she'd been a very bad girl in her past, by no means monogamous, so even if she and Gabby were a pair I wouldn't see it as out of character for her to have a fling with Ares. IMO. (And Gabby would give her hell for it ever after, or at least for half a season). But anyway, yes, Kevin was excellent in both those eps. > well, jeez. it's 3 am and i'm brain dead. this has been fun. i ahve no idea > if it's either sensal or reasonal or if i'll agree with what i said on the > morrow. > > nighty night. Xena, to Callisto, 'Sacrifice'. ;) > md See ya tomorrow night! :) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:56:39 +0300 From: Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH I realy believe that Xena turned to a human being when she met Gabrielle. And human beings lose their control in occasions like that. But... Anyway I think the "problem" is the point of view. It has a big part the fact that each of us want to see something different, something special, something that fits to ourselves. We see things with the way we need to see them. This is impossible to real life and for that reason we do it in an unreal life. Sophia - ----- Original Message ----- From: "mirrordrum" To: ; Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 7:52 AM Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 8:38 PM > Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH > > > > In a message dated 8/20/03 3:08:07 AM Central Daylight Time, > cr@orcon.net.nz > > writes: > > > > > > On Wednesday 20 August 2003 14:47, mirrordrum wrote: > > > i've been following this thread off and on with interest and keep > thinking > > > about posting and then not. but i guess maybe i will. > > > > Welcome back from lurkland, md! Nice to see you! >> > > thanks--and hi thelo i'm sort of > addressing both posts in one. i hope. > > > > > Ditto! Except, I can't seem to find your original post. Hopefully cr > copied > > most of it in his response. > > enough, certainly. it wasn't a very good post. i reread it and realized i > used the word "just" about 20 times. i was a bit. . .knackered. > > > > > > i feel a bit politically incorrect when i say that i've never > particularly > > > liked the resuscitation scene and, much as i dote on lucy's hands > > Hee hee. Politically incorrect. Welcome to the doghouse. ;)>> > > > > I really, really, really hate that term "politically incorrect." > > i guess the tongue lodged firmly in my cheek didn't come through the ether. > meant to convey an awareness that there are those amongst us who sometimes > take an almost political stance (broadly speaking) about views of actors in > xwp and get miffed if one says the "wrong" things about, variously, xena, > gab, lucy, ren, joxer, ted or the relationship between xena and ares. > > That said, > > I've seen as many people who don't like that scene as who do. > > ah, well, you see? what do i know. :) > > What interests > > me is the distinction between how we thought Xena should react and Lucy's > > portrayal of it. In fact, the "triteness" of Xena's actions made her seem > more > > "human," because she had lost "control" to the point of doing what people > > sometimes instinctively do in situations like that. I guess it's like a > way of > > keeping in "contact" with the person. I've been in situations like that, > where it > > didn't seem to make "sense," but when you're desparate, you do anything, > > everything you can. > > yes, i've been in such situations myself. i think the thing about this is > that the xena we're presented with in the series (and i think some amongst > us felt this about OAAA) is not one who loses control in that way. . .at > least not until gab comes along. i found her reaction in > perfectly in character. she would go nuts in just that way: with intensity, > direction, with a vengeance. but so early on, i'm not comfortable with it > nor with the acting. but as i said in the original post, i don't really > care. i like it that lucy felt good about it, i had the sense that she was > giving it everything she had, and i love the story about ren helping her get > through that last take. lucy's very generous in that way and i suspect it's > probably true. > > i also can be, and am, extremely critical because i love the show. if that > makes any sense. i have expectations and one of them is that xena would be > more, um, more controlled. otoh, there's that dictum in medicine and other > professions that one *never* treats someone one knows, especially someone > one cares about emotionally b/c one can't respond "objectively". > > i'm not saying this didn't show a side of her that fascinates me. i don't > see it as wimpy, just out of character. i think i would expect xena to > demonstrate her concern by trying hard but with a singleness of purpose. i > would expect her to say to marmax "what would you know. . .you've killed so > many" in a hard, tight voice not a voice verging on hysteria. that's it, > it's the approximation to hysteria that unsettles me. xena has been through > too much to lose it like that. or maybe she's been through so much that > she's at the point where she *is* ready to lose it like that. could be. > > and it occurs to me that she's dealing (and they have to pack all this into > the one ep) with her guilt about having brought gab into the situation. she > always takes way too much responsibility, of course, and that would be there > in this instance. . .but it would come later. xena wouldn't let her emotions > get in the way of her focus. well, i'm rambling. what does it matter, > anyway? she got gab back. she succeeded. that's what counts. and lucy felt > good about what she did and that counts. so, as i said, i'm fine with it. > there's a difference between not being happy *with* the way something was > done and being unhappy about the thing itself. > > and too, they are trying to tell us something important both about xena and > about gab's effect on her. and given the show and it being so early on and > whatnot, that was certainly one way to go with it. to expect, as i seem to, > that they would try to make it subtle and intense is pretty silly of me. and > i don't really. again, i have no complaint, only a reaction. i seem to be > able to argue several sides at once. fancy that. > > > > > > and, truth out, i really don't think that was lucy's finest moment, > meaning > > > no disrespect at all. i chalk it up to trying very hard, too hard, to > "give > > > her all" and give something to the fans and general fatigue and it > being > > > season 1. fascinating to me that at the time she was very happy with > that > > > bit but thought her acting with solan at the end of was too > > > emotional. or however she expresses it. > > > > Now that (with Solan), I thought, was just perfect. Not too emotional > at > > all. I think she hit the target dead centre in that scene. >> > > responding to thelo: yes, i thought the scene with solan was very well done > and didn't have a clue why lucy thought it too sappy. i've watched it so > many times trying to see what she saw. never have. > > > > > As I said, I also thought the Solan scene felt more contrived, though I > > hadn't realized Lucy thought so too. > > i'd be interested in what you felt was contrived. and for those who don't > know, lucy said of that scene from "i thought the last, parting scene. > . .played way too long. . .i was disappointed in the way i performed it. i > would have kept the lid down harder, held it down tighter, so that the pain > was greater. i kick myself about that one. . ." > > that's how i think they should have directed : extreme focus and > intensity with the pain and fear held in b/c xena is a soldier, a warrior, > and she's learned over the years that to do your best, you keep the lid on > and do the job. period. just mho. really. > > now lucy's take on is fascinating b/c she believe she did something > different from what i saw. she says "in the scene where xena loses her > friend, you really see *raw xena*. you see how great her need is. and then > [as an actor] you've still got to keep a lid on it or the audience is going > to disengage at some point if you go into self-indulgence." > > marvelous thing about the xenaverse: you get to find out how the actors view > what they were doing. i feel quite comfortable having seen it differently. > in fact, i like it that i see it differently from the way she did because it > makes clear how difficult it is to create that resonance between actor and > viewer and how, even when it doesn't work for some or all of us, the effort, > the caring, the work comes through and the honesty of it. i can't help but > love that. > > BTW, I don't think "Doctor" was Lucy's finest > > moment. I do believe it was a fine moment, the first of its kind on the > > series and noteworthy to me because of that. > > yes, yes. absolutely as you say. very noteworthy and i think daring. i > think that's an excellent point. > > > > i wonder what i'd have thought had i > > > been able to watch the show from the beginning. probably gone gaga. > > md>> > > > > You know, that's a factor that I bet influences many of us more than we > know. > > I mentioned in an earlier post that I didn't see the Herc trilogy until > > after nearly a year of Xena, which definitely influenced my response -- > made me > > more critical of the Xena in those Herc eps. > > hmmmmm. i'd love to know how. i just blew off the 3rd part--the affair with > herc--cause i found it a yawner and i don't like those idiotic monsters. > > > > > And why ever would you go back to lurker land? Surely you have more to get > > off your chest than this? > > thanks for the invite. maybe i'll try to keep up. i keep taking > on-line courses and trying to do political bits and pieces that take a lot > of energy and are a bit hard on the body parts. but it's nice to be back. > > cheers all, > > md > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:15:33 -0500 From: "S. Wilson" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] ITADITH At 08:01 PM 8/20/2003 -1000, Jackie M. Young wrote: [snipped most of the post for bandwidth] >G would've been the *blubbering type*, and X would've been the >"hold-it-all-in/take-out-the-anger-in-another-form" type. _That's_ >exactly what I was expecting X to do: accept G's death or fight it, but >certainly not wail about it, then *f*ck* the gods for allowing this to >happen. ;P _That_, to me, would've been more "appropriate". ;P But >certainly not this "Mommy, Mommy, kiss my hurt and make it better" >response. ;=P > >To me, that "girly-girl" reaction just doesn't ring true.....;=( > > >Just MO, >--Jackie I didn't see any of that as "girly-girl." I know plenty of women who don't blubber over things, myself included. But speaking as one who *has* freaked out when faced with the death of a loved one, I went from take-no-prisoners tough girl to panicked, angry and inconsolable in a nanosecond. Tears aren't sign of weakness when it hurts. Xena was not the average woman. By far. She was always the tough, strong, got everything under control chick. She took no b.s., and clocked a fool here and there when she needed to. She had a cool-as-a-cucumber demeanor and a physical presence (both imposing and sexual) that attracted all the ruffnecks she could handle, and she used all them to her advantage. Having those "tough traits" was part of the job, and by all accounts I've heard in the show, she was always tough. But having those tough traits most definitely does not mean she cannot feel, and passionately. It may mean that she keeps that in check, and doesn't reveal it - lest it be seen as a weakness. She has struggled to be seen as strong and independent in her youth. Later in her life that translated into a need to be seen as a force to be reckoned with. By AFIN, Xena had come a million miles, and changed a thousand ways, and grown more than she ever thought she could. She attributed that to Gabrielle - not because Gabrielle gave those things to her, but because the bond they developed put her more at ease to open up and explore her feelings. Maybe it didn't happen all at once, but what happened in ITADITH was Xena suddenly tuning in, loud and clear, to the prospect of losing possibly the first person in a long while (or perhaps ever) she cared for, and who cared for her, despite the flaws and weaknesses of strength. Xena was certainly more of a well-rounded character by the end of the series because of this growth. It brought her full circle; back to a sort of innocence that she'd lost long ago. I think that's (maybe) how Rob intended it. S. (droppin' 2 dinar on the table) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 10:08:35 -0500 From: "S. Wilson" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH At 02:56 PM 8/21/2003 +0300, you wrote: >I realy believe that Xena turned to a human being when she met Gabrielle. >And human beings lose their control in occasions like that. >But... Anyway I think the "problem" is the point of view. It has a big part >the fact that each of us want to see something different, something special, >something that fits to ourselves. >We see things with the way we need to see them. This is impossible to real >life and for that reason we do it in an unreal life. >Sophia Good observation. I've found that in any fandom I'm in, there are some people who take the show more to heart than others, and see more things in it than are there. There are also people that see exactly what's there, and those that don't see it no matter how hard they look (or how many people they have telling them where to look). I noticed it especially after AFINs when suddenly I saw a big split in the fandom over the "walk off into the sunset" or "sacrifice oneself for the greater good" argument. I never saw the sunset, and to this day still have to scratch my head at the idea. But I take XWP to heart, really, just not so much as to forget that I can have opinions, but in the end it's somebody else's show. And I really can't think of a reason I'd be angry or feel wronged or left out in the cold or, um, violent, if the creative force behind it does something I don't like *coff*fishschticks*coff*. That's why the lists are such a grand thing to hang on to, and why I am *thrilled* that we are still talking about Xena two years later. I love to read people's thoughts; they spur me to have my own (which is painful sometimes. ;) Keeping the dialogue open is a good good good thing. S. :) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 17:09:10 -0400 From: "mirrordrum" Subject: WOW but the interesting bits. in re: the going on and on with the attempts to revive gab. she's a medical social worker and so has been around lots of codes. a "code" is american medical parlance for the death of a patient to which medical personnel respond with resuscitation attempts. it sometimes is used simply to mean that someone died in a medical setting as in "she coded around 3 a.m." in the same vein, to be a "no code" means that someone is not to be resuscitated. 'scuse it, i just don't know how widely the term is used. anyway, my partner sees a lot of codes. she says she's seen medical professionals with lots of experience, doctors and nurses who've been around death and dying for years, who may suddenly lose all judgment after a series of crises, particularly if they've had a number of deaths or near-deaths in a short span of time. she said she's seen people who otherwise kno when to stop simply lose it and keep on trying to resuscitate when it's way past time to stop. i thought that was interestingly relevant, tho i doubt it was part of tptb's consideration. the other, and to me more helpful, comment was that they had to have xena lose it totally or she would never have done the chest pounding and would ergo never have discovered/invented resuscitation. for some reason, i'd never thought of that. now, we agree that we didn't particularly like the acting (she's a terrible lucy and xena-ho, so this isn't prejudice), which is a different matter. i pass it on fwiw and i wish i'd thought of it. md ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:30:11 -0700 From: "Xena Torres" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs When I heard the rumors of season one being rereleased with commentary, I know I wasn't the only season one DVD owner who was fuming over that. I contacted Anchor Bay several weeks ago, and just when I was beginning to think my note was ignored, the president of the company sent this: >Thank you for your note and please excuse the delay in getting back to you. > The joys of generic >email addresses. >First and foremost, we appreciate your support of our release. While we >would have liked to been >able to include footage from Lucy, Renee and >others in the first season release, we were unable to >do so for various >reasons. As both fans of the show and the distributor of the DVD series, >we >recognize the importance of including this material on the release and >are pleased that we are working >closely with the stars who have graciously >agreed to participate in our upcoming season two. We are >not planning on >re-releasing Season One with additional content. I know the fans will be >as excited as >we are with the Season Two package and that has been where >we have been focusing all of our >efforts. >Again, we appreciate your email and support. Xena is not just one of our >titles, it is one of our >passions so we always welcome the suggestions and >feedback from our fellow fans! > >With best regards, > >Dave Vasile >President, Anchor Bay Entertainment That just made my day! As much as I would LOVE season one commentary, I have no interest in shelling out another $100 not even two months since the release. It's nice to know that DVD distributers ARE actually listening. Cool. So, THERE'S some official word for you. ;) BATTLE ON XENA! Xena Torres: Warrior Writer http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:35:17 -0400 From: "mirrordrum" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs thanks for posting this and i do still find it confusing. sharon said, iirc, thatthe dvds are being produced by davis-panzer and that anchor bay is simply one of the distributors of the d-p product. yet this note from anchor makes it sound as though *they're* the ones who are doing it. all that about xena being their passion. i've got an order in at amazon.com and i assume there's only one company releasing season 2. if not and i have a choice betw d-p and anchor bay, i'll take anchor bay. i presume there's no choice involved except the choice of distributor. sharon? anyone? has this changed? md - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Xena Torres" To: ; ; ; Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2003 5:30 PM Subject: [chakram-refugees] Anchor Bay replies about Xena DVDs > When I heard the rumors of season one being rereleased with commentary, I > know I wasn't the only season one DVD owner who was fuming over that. I > contacted Anchor Bay several weeks ago, and just when I was beginning to > think my note was ignored, the president of the company sent this: > > > >Thank you for your note and please excuse the delay in getting back to you. > > The joys of generic >email addresses. > > >First and foremost, we appreciate your support of our release. While we > >would have liked to been >able to include footage from Lucy, Renee and > >others in the first season release, we were unable to >do so for various > >reasons. As both fans of the show and the distributor of the DVD series, > >we >recognize the importance of including this material on the release and > >are pleased that we are working >closely with the stars who have graciously > >agreed to participate in our upcoming season two. We are >not planning on > >re-releasing Season One with additional content. I know the fans will be > >as excited as >we are with the Season Two package and that has been where > >we have been focusing all of our >efforts. > > >Again, we appreciate your email and support. Xena is not just one of our > >titles, it is one of our >passions so we always welcome the suggestions and > >feedback from our fellow fans! > > > >With best regards, > > > >Dave Vasile > >President, Anchor Bay Entertainment > > That just made my day! As much as I would LOVE season one commentary, I have > no interest in shelling out another $100 not even two months since the > release. It's nice to know that DVD distributers ARE actually listening. > Cool. > So, THERE'S some official word for you. ;) > BATTLE ON XENA! > > Xena Torres: Warrior Writer > http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome > > "And most importantly, I've learned that the heart can betray, but the sword > never lies." - Eve "Heart of Darkness" > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:39:51 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: OT: Waves In a message dated 8/21/03 4:27:41 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << Seems odd, for a small sea / large lake to get that rough. I don't know much on the subject, but I seem to recall reading that the height of waves in the open sea is proportional to the 'reach' i.e. the distance of open water that the wind has to create them. Must be something in the shape of the lakebed that causes the waves to pile up, I'd guess. >> Chicago is called "the Windy City" for a couple of reasons. One is the reputation of our politicians. The other is that we actually do have some mighty winds. When I was younger (and weighed about 15 pounds less), I had to have a big co-worker help me get across an alley, to a place where a building blocked the wind. I've never studied up on the science of it all. I just know that umbrellas are useless during windy rains and that you sometimes have to stand in doorways until it blows over. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 18:39:53 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] ITADITH In a message dated 8/21/03 1:02:27 AM Central Daylight Time, jyoung@lava.net writes: On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 23:24:18 EDT, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: <> Thel agreed with your opinion about X's response, but disagreed with your use of "inappropriate" (as opposed to "unexpected") as the reason. I disagreed with your opinion about X's response, but was fine with your use of "appropriateness" as a reason for you with your opinion. Heh. <<_Did_ G have that big of a hold on X at this point in their relationship, or was it just OTT acting (in Thel's words) on LL's part that made us think that?? IMO, the reaction didn't fit the earlier relationship as it was revealed to us on-screen. ;P >> I didn't see many comments emphasizing Gabrielle's "hold" on Xena. We gave many other reasons for why we thought X's response was fine, appropriate, lovely, or whatever, as was Lucy's portrayal of it. In fact, several of us said that "surprise" was a key element -- that even Xena did not realize until that point what Gabs meant to her. We also said that several other elements went into that "meaning," beyond Gabs herself -- e.g., the finality of death, Xena's being alone again, the loss of someone who was helping her rechannel her dark side. Gabs was also someone who represented innocence, compassion and ideals to Xena, which Xena believed the world needed more of, as well as needed in her own life -- which Xena felt responsibile for jeopardizing by bringing Gabs into that situation. I disagree that we hadn't seen anything to support what we saw. There's plenty to suggest that Gabs was a light-hearted, adventurous, brave, supportive person to share a campfire and travel with. She was Xena's *friend,* which we saw from Xena's reaction to Marcus' death was as important to Xena as any other aspect of the relationship. If nothing else, the first season emphasized the importance of friendship to Xena, of her loyalty to friends and willingness to go all out for them (e.g., Marcus and Herc). Gabs was the one friend we knew about other than Herc. Who had stood up to Xena's kinfolk and demonstrated equal loyalty to Xena. Whom Xena had spent most of her days with since they met (possibly 6-12 months or more by "Doctor"). Why wouldn't Xena "lose it" when forced to confront what Gabs' loss meant in all its ramifications? I've had some friends for a looooong time (50 years), but our experiences don't compare to X&G's. I haven't lived with them, gone into battle with them or watched them dying in circumstances like what we saw (e.g., no emergency room where professionals whisk you away so they can do the saving). > I think the ep does show Xena's initial resignation, even a moment of >doubt when Miramax (?) tells her to let Gabs go. "Don't you leave me!" >deals with a finality that wasn't there before. You make two excellent >points -- that Xena's response was not "out of the blue" and was >connected to one of the biggest eye openers there is, death. --_That_ was the bit that *really* made me *wince*. ;P That plaintive "Don't leave me, don't leave me" was *so weak*, a warrior like X with *lotsa* experience with death (even of her close brother Lyceus) wouldn't have been reduced to a *blubbering idiot*, IMO. ;P>> Ah, then you're talking about what you wanted to see, rather than how real-life people who deal with death all the time have sometimes reacted? <> Um, how does that imply she's a victim? Because this shows she needs Gabrielle? That would be true no matter what she said. She needs Gabrielle to make the decision to keep fighting or not die, just as she needs Gabrielle not to leave her. You're saying death makes the survivors victims because they couldn't stop it? << --Yup. :) That scene was such a typical "woman crying over loved one" scene, one that I *thought* TPTB had vowed never to write, at least this early on?? Wasn't it RJ who said that they deliberately wrote X as masculine, that is, without all the usual female foibles such as blubbering, playing the victim, waiting for others to save her, etc., and yet IMO that's exactly the way they wrote the CPR scene?? ;=P >> So if Herc had done that with Iolus, would you have felt the same? Oh, right, Herc wouldn't've done that, eh? Anyway, I saw a strong *person* not waiting around for anybody (including Gabs) or accepting defeat, but taking matters into her own hands to the extent she could. I'm still puzzling over that victim thing -- unless she's a "victim" simply because she needed or loved someone. Frankly, I was glad they didn't make Xena into the Robocop they usually do to male heroes, which I think is a stereotype that does men a disservice as much as the Barbie Doll one does to women. << To me, that "girly-girl" reaction just doesn't ring true.....;=( >> Wow. I never, ever saw it that way, and I *loathe* "girly-girl" stereotypes. To me "girly-girl" is throwing one's hands in the air and looking for someone else to save the day, acting like an "air head" instead of doing whatever's possible, accepting that they have absolutely nothing to contribute to the situation. I don't equate tears with "blubbering." "Blubbering" to me is what the "girly-girl" I described above does -- if she truly exists. I do know that strong women (and men) exist who'd make Xena look like a wimp, but have broken down when they can't do anymore. I've seen them. -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #239 **************************************