From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #237 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Thursday, August 21 2003 Volume 03 : Number 237 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade ["H.J.J. Hewitt" <] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade [] [chakram-refugees] new Lucy pic ["Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade >If you want to see waves on a lake, try visiting Chicago in November. ;-) And DON'T forget The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald!!!!! TEXena, a Lakes-area escapee in Texas (which has only ONE natural lake in the whole durn state) ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:11:35 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade On Wednesday 20 August 2003 06:58, Sekhmet209@aol.com wrote: > Thelonius wrote: > > Lake? That was no lake, that was the Tasman Sea. It had waves in > > it. > > If you want to see waves on a lake, try visiting Chicago in November. ;-) > > --Sekhmet I *knew* somebody would say that! However, no New Zealand lake gets waves bigger than, maybe, a foot, even in a strong wind. To us, there's no way that could be a lake, even if we didn't recognise it as West Coast. The Tasman Sea, OTOH, is 1200 miles wide and - umm - thousands of feet deep. A bit bigger than Lake Superior. ;) cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:31:51 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] A Day In The Life On Wednesday 20 August 2003 10:59, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/19/03 3:49:50 AM Central Daylight Time, > cr@orcon.net.nz writes: > > << I think I'd like it much better if it had followed an average ep like, > say, > Blind Faith or The Execution. But coming after A Necessary Evil, I was > very disappointed. (Oh - Very Disappointed - the Sovereign in > 'Armageddon Now' - are you taking note of the quote, lfe? ;) >> > > Sorry, I take note of very little that Herc or his clones have to say. Excuses, excuses.... you realise you're professing ignorance of the best ever Herc episode? One that was an integral part of the Xena saga (since it followed on from Maternal Instincts and led into Sacrifice)? One that had Ares, and Callisto, and Hope, and alt-Xena and alt-Gabs in it? Heck, it had more serious Xena-story in it than some *Xena* eps! > << I wanted to see how > Callisto got out of the lava flow - in fact I was *expecting* to see that. > > And after the brilliant black comedy (did I say I prefer dark? ;) of > ANE, the rather obvious lightweight devoid-of-irony slapstick of ADITL just > seemed like a wasted opportunity. OK, all IMO. >> > > I watched ADITL last night and fell in love with it again. Funny thing is, > partly it was because of the change of pace -- the little snapshots of > X&G's life that added more to the characters than some big plot. > Initially, I resisted the comedies because of my preference for the "dark" > eps. I think a part of me was still afraid the show would get cancelled, > so I didn't want them "wasting" air time on frivolity. That's exactly how I felt with ADITL. After 'Destiny', I was waiting for M'Lila to reappear somehow in The Quest - and she didn't. Disappointment No 1. Then ANE made up for that with Callisto, who was at her best to date in that ep IMO, I was so waiting for her to reappear next week - and she didn't. Another disappointment. OK, I guess they can't stay on a 'high' forever, but I can always hope for one. But then, I actually laughed with delight many times in the 'black' episodes like ANE - and rarely in the 'comedy' eps. I just like a certain intensity with my humour. Irony helps, too. > Later, I > appreciated the message that the show would make me laugh as well as think. > I discovered a certain rhythm where they'd mix in different types of eps. > I credit TPTB for having enough guts to treat the show as though there > would be time to develop the characters and not lose viewers who preferred > more of one kind of ep over another. > > -- Ife I accept that, but I still have my preferences. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 19:48:42 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH On Wednesday 20 August 2003 14:47, mirrordrum wrote: > i've been following this thread off and on with interest and keep thinking > about posting and then not. but i guess maybe i will. Welcome back from lurkland, md! Nice to see you! > i feel a bit politically incorrect when i say that i've never particularly > liked the resuscitation scene and, much as i dote on lucy's hands--and i > really, really do, xena seemed in many ways ineffectual. too much patting. > whyever would you pat someone's face like that? they do that in all the > resuscitation scenes and it always bothers me. and there was something > decidedly off about her (xena's) reaction. Hee hee. Politically incorrect. Welcome to the doghouse. ;) > and, truth out, i really don't think that was lucy's finest moment, meaning > no disrespect at all. i chalk it up to trying very hard, too hard, to "give > her all" and give something to the fans and general fatigue and it being > season 1. fascinating to me that at the time she was very happy with that > bit but thought her acting with solan at the end of was too > emotional. or however she expresses it. Now that (with Solan), I thought, was just perfect. Not too emotional at all. I think she hit the target dead centre in that scene. And I do appreciate the irony, that everything Solan said quite innocently, had huge overtones of meaning as far as Xena was concerned. Clever writing. > i would reverse the take on xena dealing with gab's death in and > gab dealing with xena's death in . i always thought gab at > that stage would have come unglued on the spot rather than going spare on a > tree. Ah yes. Tree abuse. "That's another reason"..... ;) > well, having now rehashed what you all have been saying, i guess i'll > wander back to lurker land. it *is* rather nice to say this, though, after > all those years of not having done so. i wonder what i'd have thought had i > been able to watch the show from the beginning. probably gone gaga. > > md Come back any time.... cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:18:21 +0300 From: Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade > <<> And Lucy is excellent. A 5 minutes scene has the most high motions. > > Lucy's eyes, face, body work so hard to express the fear the sadness the > > need the end and then how beautifully shows the surprise aand the relief. > > Those eyes of her is the real key to understand that Xena knew the reality > > of death. But the most perfect? Lucy's hands! She gave so many power to her > > hands to express this fear.>> > > Her hands? Can you say more about that? > > -- Ife > Her hands keeps all her emotions in this scene. Her fear, her sadness, her will to wake Gabrielle up. Lucy didn't afraid to give them with their true power. See her veins. See how her hands tremble. You think that her hands have their own will and try to wake up Gabrielle. The excellent is that Lucy does many moves with her hands, desperate and confused moves. Moves which she never used them in six years of Xena because Xena never had the same experience again. It's a unique scene. Sophia ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:23:01 +0300 From: Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 9:29 PM Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH "But you are so right about Lucy's hands - there are beautiful shots of Xena's hands cradling Gabby face as she tries to rouse her. Also look at those hands - they are the hands of a working woman - no manicure but blunt nails and a bit dirty from fighting to save lives but full of compassion and gentleness. > > CherylA" My favorite moment is when Xena closes Gabrielle's nose with one hand and holds Gabrielle's lips with the other and try to give her air. Camera shows Lucy's hands very clear. I can't say anything else. It's amazing. Sophia > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:44:43 -0700 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: [chakram-refugees] new Lucy pic You might want to wander over to the fan club page and take a look at something I just posted (grin) Sharon Official Xena Fan Club ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 18:57:19 -0500 From: Lilli Sprintz Subject: [chakram-refugees] Gabrielle in retirement, and... HawkFalco@aol.com said, "Does she ever retire? As Xena once said, "People in our line of work don't live very long." I am certainly not advocating that Gabrielle should (did) die a violent death but Xena did have a point about the danger. That's if you suppose that Gabrielle carried on the work. The interesting thing about the Story post-FIN is that it is wide open to individual interpretation until TPTB give us more canon...." ...which brings up the question...has anybody heard anything else about the movie? Sharon? Is it still on? Lilli ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 17:16:06 -0700 From: "Creation (Sharon Delaney)" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Gabrielle in retirement, and... >HawkFalco@aol.com said, > >"Does she ever retire? As Xena once said, "People in our line of work don't >live very long." I am certainly not advocating that Gabrielle should (did) >die a >violent death but Xena did have a point about the danger. That's if you >suppose that Gabrielle carried on the work. >The interesting thing about the Story post-FIN is that it is wide open to >individual interpretation until TPTB give us more canon...." > >...which brings up the question...has anybody heard anything else about >the movie? Sharon? Is it still on? > >Lilli The movie is in Rob's heart and mind, but nothing happening at this time. Sharon Official Xena Fan Club ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:38:08 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] A Day In The Life In a message dated 8/20/03 3:07:00 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << you realise you're professing ignorance of the best ever Herc episode? One that was an integral part of the Xena saga (since it followed on from Maternal Instincts and led into Sacrifice)? One that had Ares, and Callisto, and Hope, and alt-Xena and alt-Gabs in it? Heck, it had more serious Xena-story in it than some *Xena* eps! >> I'm not professing ignorance of the ep, just of anything Herc might've said. Admittedly, the main thing I remember is Xena saying "Break her legs." << But then, I actually laughed with delight many times in the 'black' episodes like ANE - and rarely in the 'comedy' eps. I just like a certain intensity with my humour. Irony helps, too.>> Yes, I like that too. However, there are scenes in the comedies that make me laugh whenever I see them -- many of them involving Gabs, interestingly. << I accept that, but I still have my preferences.>> (Per Xena to Lao Ma in the Debt. Heh.) Yes, we all have those, otherwise these discussions wouldn't require much ... discussion. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:38:04 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade In a message dated 8/20/03 6:10:31 AM Central Daylight Time, sgitzou@periaktoi.gr writes: << Her hands keeps all her emotions in this scene. Her fear, her sadness, her will to wake Gabrielle up. Lucy didn't afraid to give them with their true power. See her veins. See how her hands tremble. You think that her hands have their own will and try to wake up Gabrielle. The excellent is that Lucy does many moves with her hands, desperate and confused moves. Moves which she never used them in six years of Xena because Xena never had the same experience again. It's a unique scene. >> Okay, now I've got to watch it again. I knew the response I had, but it's great how you talk about all the little aspects that go into creating that response. Funny thing is, I remember being aware of Xena's hands when they're on either side of Gabrielle, as she's leaning over over waiting to see what will happen. I wondered, "Why am I looking at her hands?" I mean, there's so much else going on around them, as well as with Xena's face and body. But somehow the hands seemed to evoke helplessness and hope at the same time, by themselves. They "touched" me. Even in the promo when they showed that scene, I was drawn to the hands. At least now I don't feel as nuts. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 20:38:07 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH In a message dated 8/20/03 3:08:07 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: On Wednesday 20 August 2003 14:47, mirrordrum wrote: > i've been following this thread off and on with interest and keep thinking > about posting and then not. but i guess maybe i will. Welcome back from lurkland, md! Nice to see you! >> Ditto! Except, I can't seem to find your original post. Hopefully cr copied most of it in his response. > i feel a bit politically incorrect when i say that i've never particularly > liked the resuscitation scene and, much as i dote on lucy's hands--and i > really, really do, xena seemed in many ways ineffectual. too much patting. > whyever would you pat someone's face like that? they do that in all the > resuscitation scenes and it always bothers me. and there was something > decidedly off about her (xena's) reaction. Hee hee. Politically incorrect. Welcome to the doghouse. ;)>> I really, really, really hate that term "politically incorrect." That said, I've seen as many people who don't like that scene as who do. What interests me is the distinction between how we thought Xena should react and Lucy's portrayal of it. In fact, the "triteness" of Xena's actions made her seem more "human," because she had lost "control" to the point of doing what people sometimes instinctively do in situations like that. I guess it's like a way of keeping in "contact" with the person. I've been in situations like that, where it didn't seem to make "sense," but when you're desparate, you do anything, everything you can. > and, truth out, i really don't think that was lucy's finest moment, meaning > no disrespect at all. i chalk it up to trying very hard, too hard, to "give > her all" and give something to the fans and general fatigue and it being > season 1. fascinating to me that at the time she was very happy with that > bit but thought her acting with solan at the end of was too > emotional. or however she expresses it. Now that (with Solan), I thought, was just perfect. Not too emotional at all. I think she hit the target dead centre in that scene. >> As I said, I also thought the Solan scene felt more contrived, though I hadn't realized Lucy thought so too. BTW, I don't think "Doctor" was Lucy's finest moment. I do believe it was a fine moment, the first of its kind on the series and noteworthy to me because of that. > well, having now rehashed what you all have been saying, i guess i'll > wander back to lurker land. it *is* rather nice to say this, though, after > all those years of not having done so. i wonder what i'd have thought had i > been able to watch the show from the beginning. probably gone gaga. md>> You know, that's a factor that I bet influences many of us more than we know. I mentioned in an earlier post that I didn't see the Herc trilogy until after nearly a year of Xena, which definitely influenced my response -- made me more critical of the Xena in those Herc eps. And why ever would you go back to lurker land? Surely you have more to get off your chest than this? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #237 **************************************