From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #236 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, August 20 2003 Volume 03 : Number 236 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade [] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:55:33 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade On Tuesday 19 August 2003 15:45, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > I'm reminded now of how she held her body in "Return of the Valkyrie," when > she walks out of the lake -- Lake? That was no lake, that was the Tasman Sea. It had waves in it. cr ... splitting hairs furiously ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 20:55:51 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] A Day In The Life On Monday 18 August 2003 12:30, Cheryl Ande wrote: > This is the best comedy of the entire series. It has an easy doing charm > that I find irresistible. It's - passable. ;) I think I'd like it much better if it had followed an average ep like, say, Blind Faith or The Execution. But coming after A Necessary Evil, I was very disappointed. (Oh - Very Disappointed - the Sovereign in 'Armageddon Now' - are you taking note of the quote, lfe? ;) I wanted to see how Callisto got out of the lava flow - in fact I was *expecting* to see that. And after the brilliant black comedy (did I say I prefer dark? ;) of ANE, the rather obvious lightweight devoid-of-irony slapstick of ADITL just seemed like a wasted opportunity. OK, all IMO. > Xena and Gabrielle now interact like people who > are together 24-7. They have private jokes, a real affection for one > another and get on each other nerves like friends do. There are lot of > good scenes here. Xena catching fish by listening to them and then scooping > them up. Her delight in socking Gabrielle in the face with them. Xena and > Gabrielle discussing Xena's fatal attraction to the opposite sex. "Leather > and blue eyes" Gabrielle says as she explains Xena 's attraction to Xena. > Gabrielle's exasperation as one of her cooking utensils becomes another > weapon in Xena's arsenal. Xena using a piece of scroll "With not much > writing on it" as toilet paper. And then her hasty retreat from her fuming > friend. In some ways, this episode's presumed subtext-friendly reputation exceeds the actuality. I recall remarking, at the height of the bitching and moaning (by fans, not X & G!) in Season 5, that if ADITL had screened in that series, all this internecine strife would have been siezed on as proof of TPTB's fanatical desire to destroy the subtext. ;) > This is also the first time Xena and Gabrielle bath togther. This is a > delightful scene and of course is cited as a very subtextual. I actually > don't view it that way. Definitely 'in the eye of the beholder'. There's certainly nothing explicity subtextual (is that an oxymoron?) in that scene. > First you have Minya poping up every few minutes > so how chummy can X & G get. Just as well Joxer didn't make his appearance, eh? ;) > Second Romans and probably Greeks did have > public baths so the fact that these two would bath together is perfectly > natural in their culture. Having said this let us say both LL and ROC look > very good wet. > > CherylA I won't deny that. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:19:13 +0300 From: Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade - ----- Original Message ----- From: "cr" To: ; Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 9:55 AM Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade >> Lake? That was no lake, that was the Tasman Sea. It had waves in it. > > cr > ... splitting hairs furiously Back to maps again? I like it!! Sophia > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 14:29:32 -0400 (EDT) From: cande@sunlink.net Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 03:21:43 +0300 From: "A 5 minutes scene has the most high motions. Lucy's eyes, face, body work so hard to express the fear the sadness the need the end and then how beautifully shows the surprise aand the relief. Those eyes of her is the real key to understand that Xena knew the reality of death. But the most perfect? Lucy's hands! She gave so many power to her hands to express this fear." Yes this is a wonderful observation about how the director shot this scene. It is comprised of so many tight close-ups. He concentrated on Xena's eyes as they both fill with tears and then anger at those who would have her give up and greet her grief with platitudes about "gabrielle being a beter place". But you are so right about Lucy's hands - there are beautiful shots of Xena's hands cradling Gabby face as she tries to rouse her. Also look at those hands - they are the hands of a working woman - no manicure but blunt nails and a bit dirty from fighting to save lives but full of compassion and gentleness. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 14:58:53 EDT From: Sekhmet209@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade Thelonius wrote: > Lake? That was no lake, that was the Tasman Sea. It had waves in it. If you want to see waves on a lake, try visiting Chicago in November. ;-) - --Sekhmet ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:59:02 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] A Day In The Life In a message dated 8/19/03 3:49:50 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << I think I'd like it much better if it had followed an average ep like, say, Blind Faith or The Execution. But coming after A Necessary Evil, I was very disappointed. (Oh - Very Disappointed - the Sovereign in 'Armageddon Now' - are you taking note of the quote, lfe? ;) >> Sorry, I take note of very little that Herc or his clones have to say. << I wanted to see how Callisto got out of the lava flow - in fact I was *expecting* to see that. And after the brilliant black comedy (did I say I prefer dark? ;) of ANE, the rather obvious lightweight devoid-of-irony slapstick of ADITL just seemed like a wasted opportunity. OK, all IMO. >> I watched ADITL last night and fell in love with it again. Funny thing is, partly it was because of the change of pace -- the little snapshots of X&G's life that added more to the characters than some big plot. Initially, I resisted the comedies because of my preference for the "dark" eps. I think a part of me was still afraid the show would get cancelled, so I didn't want them "wasting" air time on frivolity. Later, I appreciated the message that the show would make me laugh as well as think. I discovered a certain rhythm where they'd mix in different types of eps. I credit TPTB for having enough guts to treat the show as though there would be time to develop the characters and not lose viewers who preferred more of one kind of ep over another. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:58:59 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH In a message dated 8/19/03 1:30:16 PM Central Daylight Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: << Also look at those hands - they are the hands of a working woman - no manicure but blunt nails and a bit dirty from fighting to save lives but full of compassion and gentleness. >> LOL! Amazing about details. I remember when Gabs drew back that arrow in "Them Bones," how she still had the red stuff under her fingernails. I was impressed because it added some reality to her painting her face and running around in the forest looking for deer to shoot. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:59:04 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade In a message dated 8/19/03 2:56:35 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << > I'm reminded now of how she held her body in "Return of the Valkyrie," when > she walks out of the lake -- Lake? That was no lake, that was the Tasman Sea. It had waves in it. cr ... splitting hairs furiously >> LOL! What can I say? I live in Chicago, so tend to think of most large bodies of water as like Lake Michigan, which has plenty of waves in it. I see Sekhmet understands. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 20:50:29 EDT From: Sekhmet209@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade In a message dated 8/19/03 7:00:30 PM, IfeRae@aol.com writes: >In a message dated 8/19/03 2:56:35 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz >writes: >> Lake? That was no lake, that was the Tasman Sea. It had waves in it. > > cr > ... splitting hairs furiously >> > >LOL! What can I say? I live in Chicago, so tend to think of most large >bodies of water as like Lake Michigan, which has plenty of waves in it. > I see Sekhmet understands. That's right! Lake Michigan can muster 40-foot waves in a good storm, although I've only seen them at 20 feet or so myself. And I actually thought the Atlantic was a bit wimpy when I saw it for the first time in Florida (three-foot surf? Bah!), but having to crawl around on the beach one dark night rescuing baby sea turtles during a nor'easter sorta reeducated me on that. ;-) - --Sekhmet ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:28:44 -0400 From: "mirrordrum" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade lake superior has some cool waves too. i didn't know that until reading nevada barr's "a superior death." here's a site that shows some preeeetttyyy cool waves. not eminently surfable like those of the tasman sea, of course, but sufficient to be considered waves. http://www.lakesuperiorphoto.com/lake%20superior%20waves.html oh and here's one i found for lake michigan. i had *no* idea! http://www.lakesurf.com/LMWaves.htm and the atlantic is a bit wimpy if you were raised on the pacific. . .until it gets blustery, as you say, sekh. md - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 8:50 PM Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade > In a message dated 8/19/03 7:00:30 PM, IfeRae@aol.com writes: > > >In a message dated 8/19/03 2:56:35 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz > >writes: > >> Lake? That was no lake, that was the Tasman Sea. It had waves in it. > > > > > cr > > ... splitting hairs furiously >> > > > >LOL! What can I say? I live in Chicago, so tend to think of most large > >bodies of water as like Lake Michigan, which has plenty of waves in it. > > I see Sekhmet understands. > > That's right! Lake Michigan can muster 40-foot waves in a good storm, > although I've only seen them at 20 feet or so myself. And I actually thought the > Atlantic was a bit wimpy when I saw it for the first time in Florida (three-foot > surf? Bah!), but having to crawl around on the beach one dark night rescuing > baby sea turtles during a nor'easter sorta reeducated me on that. ;-) > > --Sekhmet > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 22:47:09 -0400 From: "mirrordrum" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH i've been following this thread off and on with interest and keep thinking about posting and then not. but i guess maybe i will. i feel a bit politically incorrect when i say that i've never particularly liked the resuscitation scene and, much as i dote on lucy's hands--and i really, really do, xena seemed in many ways ineffectual. too much patting. whyever would you pat someone's face like that? they do that in all the resuscitation scenes and it always bothers me. and there was something decidedly off about her (xena's) reaction. as some others did, i found and still find xena's reaction out of character. i'm far more interested in lucy's description of how difficult it was than i am in the scene itself. i can imagine that it was quite exhausting. it just didn't seem like xena and it really did seem a bit of a stretch at that point in their relationship. however, although i found xena's reaction over gab's "death" in quite out of character it never bothered me much. possibly b/c i thought it soooooo over the top that i just chalked it up as a "let's let lucy/xena have an emotional moment" moment. i think at that point they were all really rather proud of it so that's cool. but it was out of character. xena was nothing if not stoic. gab changed that some as did solan. but at that point, it was early days and even if she had been gut-wrenched, she'd not have looked like a little girl about it. i envision her working very hard to revive gabrielle and certainly think she'd have tried her hardest to save the kid, but something just isn't quite right for me. otoh, we might say that it's gab's miraculous power to bring out this "weakness" in people at work. i dunno. i think they were just going for precisely the reaction they got. . .tho not from me. and, truth out, i really don't think that was lucy's finest moment, meaning no disrespect at all. i chalk it up to trying very hard, too hard, to "give her all" and give something to the fans and general fatigue and it being season 1. fascinating to me that at the time she was very happy with that bit but thought her acting with solan at the end of was too emotional. or however she expresses it. sort of like grief scene. i just didn't believe most of that. overacted and overdirected. i just didn't think lucy was really *there* altho i thought the idea was interesting. i just thought they went the wrong way with it. i considered it a sop to subtexters that went a bit overboard and missed what could have been a very interesting piece of story line. i would reverse the take on xena dealing with gab's death in and gab dealing with xena's death in . i always thought gab at that stage would have come unglued on the spot rather than going spare on a tree. i think she'd have recovered herself and done what needed to be done as best she could but would have been terribly at a loss. i could go on about that but considering the list population, won't go there. i don't in any way assert that my evaluation is correct, it's just different from most people's i've read. i remember sharon delaney writing in a sort of teaser post after she'd seen the preview of that the resuscitation scene had been a tear-jerker for her. i was therefore anticipating something quite different. i liked some bits alright but it just. . .i dunno. . .it just didn't work for me although i do love some of the shots. well, having now rehashed what you all have been saying, i guess i'll wander back to lurker land. it *is* rather nice to say this, though, after all those years of not having done so. i wonder what i'd have thought had i been able to watch the show from the beginning. probably gone gaga. md - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2003 2:29 PM Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: ITADITH > Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 03:21:43 +0300 > From: > "A 5 minutes scene has the most high motions. > Lucy's eyes, face, body work so hard to express the fear the sadness the > need the end and then how beautifully shows the surprise aand the relief. > Those eyes of her is the real key to understand that Xena knew the reality > of death. But the most perfect? Lucy's hands! She gave so many power to > her > hands to express this fear." > > Yes this is a wonderful observation about how the director shot this scene. It is comprised of so many tight close-ups. He concentrated on Xena's eyes as they both fill with tears and then anger at those who would have her give up and greet her grief with platitudes about "gabrielle being a beter place". But you are so right about Lucy's hands - there are beautiful shots of Xena's hands cradling Gabby face as she tries to rouse her. Also look at those hands - they are the hands of a working woman - no manicure but blunt nails and a bit dirty from fighting to save lives but full of compassion and gentleness. > > CherylA > ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #236 **************************************