From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #235 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Tuesday, August 19 2003 Volume 03 : Number 235 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] A Day In The Life [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] ITADITH [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] ITADITH [cr ] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade [ He showed Xena's playful side and the real basis for Xena and > Gabrielle's relationship - they enjoyed each other's company. You see a > very > relaxed Xena here. Xena had a problems to solve but I think she saw both > Gareth and Zargreb as interesting challenges but no big deal. She could > relax > have a nice bath, experiment with new contraptions and annoy the hell out of > her best friend - a nice vacation for a warrior princess. One of my all-time favorite scenes is Xena and her kite -- her ingenuity, oblivousness to others' skepticism, tenacity, confidence, girlish pout when the kite bombs vs. girlish glee when it flies. To me, this "relaxed" Xena characterized her strengths as a warrior, but also showed what she might've been like had she not become one. Sorry, but one of my favorite Gabs scenes is in there too -- when she gets smothered by the kite when she's sitting there trying to reinforce her belief in Xena. (Hmm, maybe a hint of season 3?) Yep, when I just want to have a "feel good" moment, this is the ep I usually pick. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 01:03:25 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] ITADITH In a message dated 8/17/2003 6:52:53 PM Central Daylight Time, cande@sunlink.net writes: > Xena has never needed > anyone before but for some inexplicable reason she needs this person. I > think > IfeRae was right when she said Xena is as surprised as the audience at her > strong reaction. Xena didn't realize how much of a hold this girl had on > her > until the moment she died and once the realization came she had do > everything > to save her. Thank you for that vote of confidence. I've been getting whacked on two fronts. Seriously, though, you bring up a point that's so obvious, I completely overlooked it -- how you sometimes don't know how you feel about something or someone until the loss. I think when Gabs went off to the Academy, Xena wished her well because it was what she probably thought was best anyway, in addition to being happy for Gabs. Even then, they talk about how long it'll take, which suggests this might simply be a hiatus, though I doubt Xena thought that. By "Prodigal," Xena's begun to get used to the idea that Gabs is her "family." She's gotten used to being a help to Gabrielle and working problems through with her. Suddenly Gabs seems to being saying that for once Xena can't help, that Gabs needs her blood family. In both those cases, it's not like Gabs had disappeared off the face of the earth. Gabs left willingly to do what she thought best. As when she married Perdicus, Xena is sad for herself, but focuses on Gabs' needs. In "Doctor," she's not only losing Gabs permanently (she doesn't seem to have Xena's ghosting ability), but Xena blames herself for what happens. I think the ep does show Xena's initial resignation, even a moment of doubt when Miramax (?) tells her to let Gabs go. "Don't you leave me!" deals with a finality that wasn't there before. You make two excellent points -- that Xena's response was not "out of the blue" and was connected to one of the biggest eye openers there is, death. The other thing I remember is how relaxed/relieved Xena is at the end, as though she's at peace with having let Gabrielle into her life. She knows how much Gabs means to her now, as well as how much she means to Gabs. When they walk off, the physical support she gives Gabrielle has both a "light" feel and an "I'm going to hold on to you" feel. I guess that's why I think this ep was pivotal insignaling a greater closeness and Xena's acceptance of someone she initially told to stay home. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 22:36:28 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] ITADITH On Monday 18 August 2003 15:24, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > > < > like. ;=) Kinda like..........*X*!! ;=)>> > > Actually, I think we're having this discussion because Xena became *less* > stoic than some people would lke. I guess you two like "early" Xena, > just as some fans prefer "early" Gabs. I liked watching all Xena's > transformations (and Gabs') from beginning to end. Hmmm, no, I definitley liked later Xena, after we got to see her dark streak. What I didn't care for was the mushy sentimental streak. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 03:21:43 +0300 From: Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade Well, in my opinion in both episodes, ITADITH and TS, we have "Xena's madness" but in different situations. In ITADITH Gabrielle dies in her hands. Her mind denies the reality of the death of her most beloved person. She fights to give breath to this body. She's getting mad, yes. She cries, screams, fights the others and even this body which refuses to wake up and keeps her Gabrielle away from her. She's getting mad because her past is very close. She knows Gabrielle only one year and she feels unsafe. She's afraid the darkness. Gabrielle is the light. She knows deep inside her that Gabrielle is dead. But Gabrielle comes back. And Lucy is excellent. A 5 minutes scene has the most high motions. Lucy's eyes, face, body work so hard to express the fear the sadness the need the end and then how beautifully shows the surprise aand the relief. Those eyes of her is the real key to understand that Xena knew the reality of death. But the most perfect? Lucy's hands! She gave so many power to her hands to express this fear. In ST Gabrielle is dead. Xena's world is dead. The only thing she wants is to see her even if this means she is going to stay dead. Xena is getting mad again because now Gabrielle is more in her life. Xena found the good way of life. Now without Gabrielle the only thing that exists is loneliness and pain. Here Lucy gave different options of the same feeling. Her eyes cry again but without facial expressions, her mind screams but her body gives no violent moves. Lucy gave the emptiness in Xena's soul without Gabrielle. In ITADITH she afraids the life without Gabrielle. In ST has the life without Gabrielle. She has taken a big dive in it. Sophia ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:45:40 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: Adventures in the Sin Trade Sophia! Great to hear from you! In a message dated 8/18/2003 7:14:11 PM Central Daylight Time, sgitzou@periaktoi.gr writes: > << She's > getting mad because her past is very close. She knows Gabrielle only one > year and she feels unsafe. She's afraid the darkness. Gabrielle is the > light. >> Oh, my! Yes! "Unsafe." And in "Sin Trade," she realizes that Gabrielle has given her a "light" of her own, so doesn't need to fear going on alone. She has Gabrielle inside, even though of course she'd rather have Gabrielle with her alive. <<> And Lucy is excellent. A 5 minutes scene has the most high motions. > Lucy's eyes, face, body work so hard to express the fear the sadness the > need the end and then how beautifully shows the surprise aand the relief. > Those eyes of her is the real key to understand that Xena knew the reality > of death. But the most perfect? Lucy's hands! She gave so many power to her > hands to express this fear.>> Her hands? Can you say more about that? > > In ST Gabrielle is dead. Xena's world is dead. The only thing she wants is > to see her even if this means she is going to stay dead. Xena is getting mad > again because now Gabrielle is more in her life. Xena found the good way of > life. Now without Gabrielle the only thing that exists is loneliness and > pain. Here Lucy gave different options of the same feeling. Her eyes cry > again but without facial expressions, her mind screams but her body gives no > violent moves. Lucy gave the emptiness in Xena's soul without Gabrielle. >> Boy, does that capture what I felt at the beginning -- the emptiness. In "Doctor," there was still passion and fear. As you say, she was very physically active -- "there." In ST, she is so desolate. Even when she fights in the beginning, it's almost listless, like she's somewhere else -- "not there." When she wails before crossing over, it's like someone with nothing left inside, who's raw from being reduced to wringing out her guts. Someone else wrote that it was almost like we were intruding on Xena's very private grief, on what was going on inside her. "Empty." Yes. A worse, more hopeless and disturbing kind of grief. In "Doctor," I was drawn in, captivated, right there with her in wanting to revive Gabrielle. In ST, I almost wanted to turn away. There was anybody could do but watch her cling to just enough "reason" to enter the Land of the Dead. > > In ITADITH she afraids the life without Gabrielle. In ST has the life > without Gabrielle. She has taken a big dive in it. Wonderful distinction! As always you really makes me appreciate what Lucy accomplished in those scenes. I knew there was something in particular about the early scenes in ST that was extraordinary, but couldn't put my finger on it, let alone express it. I'm reminded now of how she held her body in "Return of the Valkyrie," when she walks out of the lake -- still "Walthea" but now knowing she's supposed to be someone she doesn't know, called "Xena." There's a little of that same emptiness, but different, maybe because this time she knows she's missing something but doesn't know what it is. Sort of like in "Chakram," except she at least knows she's Xena -- just not the Xena everyone says she's supposed to be. I really see now why you said Lucy approached each one as a different charac ter, not simply as Xena using different expressions. Thanks! - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #235 **************************************