From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #216 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Friday, August 1 2003 Volume 03 : Number 216 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Miss Amphipolis & Destiny [cr ] [chakram-refugees] Eye Color change [Brule31x63@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Miss Amphipolis & Destiny [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: FIN [IfeRae@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 19:24:28 +1200 From: cr Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Miss Amphipolis & Destiny On Thursday 31 July 2003 10:39, IfeRae@aol.com wrote: > > I found it very disconcerting that, with M'Lila's very positive influence > on Xena, Xena ended up choosing the dark side. I guess, though, we can't > blame > M'Lila for that, if we blame anyone we have to blame Caesar, whose > soldiers killed M'Lila. >> > > I have to disagree. I think it's clear (at least to reformed Xena) that > she *chose* to pass up what seems to be her first chance at going in a > different direction. M'Lila essentially gave her another chance at life. > Xena's response (i.e., going on a world rampage) was way out of proportion > to simply taking revenge on M'Lila's killers and the man who betrayed her. > She used it as a license to take out on everyone else what had happened to > her. I disagree. If M'Lila had lived, maybe she would have led Xena, long ago, to the 'light side'. Caesar - and his ego - were primarily responsible for turning Xena to the dark side at that moment, IMO - both by giving Xena a reason, and by removing the one person who could have saved her at that time - - M'Lila. Besides, Caesar is one of those characters I love to hate ;) > Yes, Xena was young and still fairly inexperienced and naive, so I give her > more slack than she gives herself. But Caesar cannot be blamed for the > ambition that led Xena to fall for him or the arrogance that led her to > believe that this even more ambitious and arrogant patrician would want to > partner up with a cocky peasnt girl. She sought to use Caesar, just as she > did Borias, Akemi, Alti, and eventually Lao Ma. If they sought to take > advantage of her in turn, it was because of what was already inside her, > which is why I think she took (rightfully in my mind) responsibility for > acts that she did not solely cause. Oh, agreed. But one thing I would never blame Xena for thereafter was her unremitting hatred of Caesar. He gave Xena good reason and killing him would have been an act of public beneficence IMO. > << Of course, Herc had to have a major influence on Xena since she started > out > just as a supporting character in Herc's story. ;) >> > > His was the one opportunity to change (in a long line of them) that Xena > finally chose to accept. To me, the series tried to give backstory for > Xena's development, but never to absolve her of a series of choices no one > forced her to make. We see that she gleefully, whole-heartedly pounced on > or pursued whatever she desired, often at others' expense. Lots of other > folks had their villages attacked and maybe organized their kin to defend > themselves. Something in Xena's nature weakened her to her destructive > desires, yet was also her greatest strength in committing to her positive > desires. > > This is why I argue so strongly against "poor Xena," in terms of blaming > others for situations she was involved in. Oh, I agree, Xena would never want nor accept our pity. But I have this odd concept of fairness or justice which makes me feel that, in any given situation, the blame should be apportioned most to those who are most at fault for creating it - and this is frequently someone other than Xena. And the credit should go to those who do most to fix things - which frequently is Xena. This is probably what one would expect for the hero of the show, most of the time. (I said 'most', not 'all', please note :) > The credit we give her as a > hero is the other side of the tremendous intellect, will, hard work, > fearlessness, and *self*-confidence that made her such a formidable baddy. > The situations, her priorities changed, but everything she needed and used > to fight with is also what she needed to fight against -- herself. When we > ignore that, we diminish the internal war she fought that made her such an > intriguing *human* hero, as well as her achievement in being (for the most > part) victorious. > > -- Ife I've never ignored Xena's faults. However, I don't accept that, since Xena is the most prominent and active actor in the scene, she is therefore automatically to blame for anything bad that happens. Even if Xena blames herself, that doesn't mean she's right. cr ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 10:00:42 EDT From: Brule31x63@aol.com Subject: [chakram-refugees] Eye Color change On Tuesday 29 July 2003 15:07, H.J.J. Hewitt wrote: > >I kind of wish Salmoneus was used more in Xena. > > I wish he'd been used a L*O*T more!!!!!!! > > >One > >mystery why is young Callisto also played by the same actress with the sky > >blue eyes - that is just so strange. I'm sure there are teen-age > > actresses in NZ with brown eyes. Zillions of 'em. I think that was just a YAXI. cr I have posted this various times over my career as a Xena phreak, but because it has a personal connection with me, I'll rehash an old favorite point of mine, My mother had blonde hair and blue eyes until puberty. She had black hairand brown eyes all the years I knew her. Every time I see an old photo Icannot identify my own mother. It does happen. When I first wrote these comments back when the Callisto's Eyes controversy raged in 1998, I found an article in an archive of the journal of the AMA. Alas, the link is now dead but here is the part I saved from that article: "Results: Among whites (n=1359), the eye color of 3.8% to 8.6% of the sample twins became 2 U or more darker or 2 U or more lighter during 3- to 9-yearintervals between 6 years of age and adulthood (>18 years, <24 years).Among identical (monozygotic) twin pairs, there was a high degree of concordance in eye color (r=0.98 [P<.001]), while in fraternal (dizygotic) twin pairs, the concordance was less pronounced (r=0.49) and decreased with age (r=0.07). Among the sample of the mothers of twins, 9% had irides that lightened by 2 U or more during the follow-up period. " It would not be impossible at all for Callisto's eyes to change from blue to brown. CleanthesThe pith o' sense, and pride o' worth,Are higher rank than 'a that. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:16:21 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Miss Amphipolis & Destiny In a message dated 7/31/03 3:38:33 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz writes: << I have this odd concept of fairness or justice which makes me feel that, in any given situation, the blame should be apportioned most to those who are most at fault for creating it - and this is frequently someone other than Xena. And the credit should go to those who do most to fix things - which frequently is Xena. >> Um, okay. Let's see .... Xena was on a pirating mission when *she* captured Caesar. She saves him from being killed because *she* senses he may be worth more gold alive. *She* is drawn to him because of his sterling qualities (which will later nearly get her killed). *She* tries to seduce him, summons him to her bed for activity he wasn't in too good of a position to refuse (which might've been called rape if he'd been a woman), and offers to partner up with him for the noble purpose of ruling the world. *She* completely ignores the reservations M'Lila and others have about Caesar. Her own arrogance and greed cause her to be surprised because he does exactly what she hoped to do at his side -- plunder and conquer. How exactly did Caesar betray a relationship he never agreed to or promises he never made to her? Indeed, all he did was stand (and lay) there, being himself. He kept the one promise that he did make -- that he would do what was necessary to rule. M'Lila chose to help Xena, which Caesar didn't know and even Xena had a hard time understanding. M'Lila chooses to sacrifice herself in front of an arrow aimed at Xena. How would any of that have happened if Xena hadn't kidnapped Caesar in the first place? Why is it "fair" for him to take so much of the blame for a trap Xena so willingly engineered and then walked straight into? Why is it "fair" for her to get so much of the credit for trying to fix what happened later, when her pirated loot (much of it probably the big ransom he encouraged her to demand for him) is what enabled Caesar to launch his initial campaign? - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2003 17:16:23 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Re: FIN In a message dated 7/30/03 9:39:54 PM Central Daylight Time, Xwpacolyte@aol.com writes: << In a message dated 7/29/03 11:20:38 PM Central Daylight Time, IfeRae@aol.com writes: << Akemi now has mor reason to fear Xena might abort the mission if she knows she has to stay dead, but Akemi also wants to keep Gabrielle from being hurt. >> Or maybe Akemi just wanted to keep Gabby alive so she could have Xena all to herself on the other side. >> LOL! I was trying to give Akemi the benefit of the doubt. However, I think she did realize Xena wouldn't take too kindly to Gabs' being hurt because of a wild-goose chase. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #216 **************************************