From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #207 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Wednesday, July 23 2003 Volume 03 : Number 207 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [chakram-refugees] Xena Mention [IfeRae@aol.com] [chakram-refugees] More on Boogeyman [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Friend In Need Part 2 [] [chakram-refugees] Re: Akemi's Father was FIN ["Cheryl Ande" ] [chakram-refugees] Solstice Carol and Xena Scrolls ["Cheryl Ande" , a horror flick about, well, the boogeyman, has nabbed a warrior princess: Lucy Lawless, the former star of Xena: Warrior Princess. Lawless co-stars in the story of a man (Barry Watson) who returns to his childhood home to confront a demon from his past in order to cope with trauma he suffered when younger. Emily Deschanel, Skye McCole Bartusiak, and Tory Mussett all have roles as well. Stephen Kay will be directing, from a script by Eric Kripke. The Hollywood Reporter contributed to this report. http://www.zap2it.com/movies/news/story/0,1259,---17729,00.html http://comingsoon.net/news.php?id=668 ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:30:52 +0300 From: Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Friend In Need Part 2 - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 1:09 AM Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Friend In Need Part 2 > In a message dated 7/21/03 11:44:21 AM Central Daylight Time, > sgitzou@periaktoi.gr writes: > > << After a life like theirs, two > options exist. Life together or death together. >> > > Goodness! Obviously real people (at least most of us) wouldn't have gone > through all that these fantasy characters did, in terms of crucifixion, > resurrection, being in different heavens/hells and transported to the future. Is it > the extraordinary love which held them together through everything that makes > you say what you do? Could you see yourself saying that for two real people who > showed strong love for each other? > > -- Ife > If real people had lived the same life as Xena and Gabrielle then yes they would have the same end. See, Xena and Gabrielle are more than just friends or soulmates or anything else. They don't have a house, a place to end up the night. Each of them doesn't have a place or a time for herself. We never saw them to chose to be alone and think except the times they had fought. And the most important is that they never wanted to do all these I wrote. Can you understand it? They had house. They had each other for house. The place to end up the night was those two and nothing else. And that gave them hapiness. They didn't need something more. They didn' t need a time for themselves all they need was each other. They lived through each other. After all these you expect me to believe that one them can die and the other can live and go on with her life? Impossible to my eyes. They can only live when they live together. I'm not saying things from my mind but I'm saying what I have seen in the show. And if you want to see that in real people then don't see the actions in XWP but the strong of the actions. And that strong can be felt by real people. Sophia ========================================================= > This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. > To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with > "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. > Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. > ========================================================= ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:29:09 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: Akemi's Father was FIN > Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 20:07:42 -1000 (HST) > From: "Jackie M. Young" > Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: FIN > > BTW, I don't think it was ever adequately explained (*wow*, what's new in > the Xenaverse ;P ) why Akemi's father never had to make amends for killing > Akemi's family and grandparents, and why he was allowed to still have the > apparently high prestige he was enjoying when Akemi and X busted through > his doorway? No one ever said Akemi father's didn't have to make amends. He did - that's why Akemi killed him. Unfortunately he was so evil he became a demon. Evil men often have high esteem - people do get away with murder. Besides as someone just said perhaps he was clever enough to hide his crime - perhaps that's why Akemi was shipped of to Chin. Akemi's father didn't get away with murder in the end Xena finished him off. > > If Akemi had to commit harakiri (sp?), why didn't her father?? ;P And why > didn't the mob go after him?!? ;P Again the mob may have not known that Akemi's father was a murderer. Also when Xena told her story she said the people of Haguchi only heard she was honoring a girl who killed her father. There is no indication the mob knew who the girl was or who she murdered. They only knew she killed her father - in most societies the murder of a parent is reguarded as very heinous crime. That is why the people didn't want that girl honored. As for the father committing suicide - you have to have honor to commit suicide- her father didn't have any honor. Honorable men don't slaughter their families. > > Or is that another YAXI?!? ;P No not really. Those questions just weren't included in the narrative. > > > - --Jackie ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:23:39 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Friend In Need Part 2 In a message dated 7/22/03 10:23:58 AM Central Daylight Time, sgitzou@periaktoi.gr writes: << Can you understand it? They had house. They had each other for house. The place to end up the night was those two and nothing else. And that gave them hapiness. They didn't need something more. They didn' t need a time for themselves all they need was each other. They lived through each other.>> Yes, I can understand this. As usual, you put it beautifully. [Note to others on the list: I'm familiar with Sophia's wonderful way of expressing things because of another list we're on together. ] << After all these you expect me to believe that one them can die and the other can live and go on with her life? Impossible to my eyes. They can only live when they live together. >> I got something different from the show. I saw two independent people who "found" themselves with and in each other, who did become each other's "home." However, I saw them carrying the essence of that "home" with them, even if something happened to one of them. Yes, I believe they were shown as meant to be together, but not that they could not continue to live and grow if the other died. In "The Quest," Gabrielle was prepared to live without Xena. Later, In "Sacrifice," Gabrielle chose to die in order to destroy Hope and save Xena. In "Sin Trade," Xena realized Gabrielle had helped ignite a "light" within her that gave her inspiration to live. Yes, they would've rathered live together, but neither wanted the other to die just because she did, even as they hoped to be together again in an afterlife. I saw them each as enhancing the other -- making the other more "whole" -- in a way that went beyond what they had together. I certainly would've preferred to see them going off together -- alive -- into the sunset at the end. While I wouldn't have wanted Gabrielle to take her own life, I would've been okay if somehow she'd died fighting with Xena or trying to restore Xena. However, based on what I saw, I could also understand Xena's decision to stay dead and Gabrielle's to go on without her. That doesn't mean I don't also believe that there was plenty of "evidence" for what you say - -- in my heart, if not completely in my head. I suppose I'll always think of XWP on two planes: The first was Xena's initial, independent quest to become a better person and make up for her past, as well as Gabrielle's quest to learn about herself and the world. The second was the magnetic relationship that developed between the two and took on a life of its own, in large part because of the unexpected power and "heart" it gave to the show. The finale tried to resolve things on the first plane, but gave second billing to the relationship that had gotten us there. Anyway, your comments give me more appreciation for the feelings of fans for whom the finale was such a profound disappointment. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 19:50:15 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Re: FIN 2 > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 10:46:53 -0700 > From: "Ernie" > Subject: [chakram-refugees] RE FIN 2 > > There is an excellent article on why Xena shouldn't have stayed dead at the > end of Friend In Need 2. Check it out at: > > http://members.aol.com/Tenderware3/xenafin2.htm > > It makes the argument far better than *I* ever could. I skimmed the article. There is nothing new here but it does cover all the reasons people were upset with FIN. I however don't accept many of her arguments. I believe Tapert had the right to do what he wanted with the characters he created. If he wanted to kill Xena off that was his right. It seems a whole passel of people believe they should be able to take characters Taper created and use them as they wish whether to write fan fiction or do artwork yet they believe Tapert should have asked their permission to what he wanted with his creations. Then we have the same argument that Tapert was somehow punishing Xena for being strong and or a lesbian. Again Tapert created the strong woman and certainly supported subtext why would he then punsih Xena for being what he created. Xena was a warrior who live a violent life and she got killed living that life - that is not a surprise. She was hero and she died a hero's death - like El Cid, Arthur, Hercules (in myth), Davy Crockett, John Henry and the list goes. Nothing happened to Xena that didn't happen to a lot heros in mythology. It's just that popular entertainment has trained us to believe heroes must have a happy ending. Finally there is the argument that Tapert ruined his syndication chances. Perhaps he did - I don't know but this may indicate how strongly he felt about ending the series the way he felt it should end despite business considerations. Finally we have the argument that Xena dying for the 40,000 somehow negated the idea that we are redeemed by love. I believe she was redeemed by love that's why she chose to sacrifice. The is no greater love than a man or woman who sacrifice herself for others (to mangle a quote). Xena learned to love and was redeemed. Gabrielle learned to love unselfishly and let Xena sacrifice herself. I see a profound example of love here. It is a love that does transends death and mortality. This is a mythic love story that just wasn't bounded by the Hollywood conventions of riding off into the sunset together to set up house in an Amazon village. CherylA > > - --------------------------------------------- > "The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've > got it made." -- Groucho Marx ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 22:26:46 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: [chakram-refugees] Solstice Carol and Xena Scrolls I watched these two this weekend and some observations. Solstice Carol - I think this is the last time we see Gabby actually being a story teller. I don't remember her ever telling stories after this. Then there is always one part that always unintentionally amuses me. When the orphans are singing their carol I always notice that Lucy is so ladylike while listening to the song. She sits with hands folded in her lap and I always think there's Lucy's Catholic school training rearing its head. Finally doesn't Lucy looked elegant as the Fate of Solstice Past. Xena Scrolls - Still one of my favorites and an imaginative clip show. I really like that Xena and Gabrielle's decedents flip personalities. Mel is the innocent who has faith in her new friend Janice. Janice is of course the dark character who needs to be redeemed by friendship. It was also a nice chance for ROC to be the lead for once. Lucy I gather wasn't fond of this episode. I remember reading in the first companion book that she thought Xena was too much in the background and was actually taking second place to Ares. She said something interesting if I remember it correctly. She said it was alright for Xena to be second to Gabrielle but she certainly shouldn't take second place to Ares. I think it shows something of Lucy's perception of the series - she certainly saw herself as the star but she also saw ROC her co-star and equal. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #207 **************************************