From: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org (chakram-refugees-digest) To: chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #179 Reply-To: chakram-refugees@smoe.org Sender: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-chakram-refugees-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk chakram-refugees-digest Saturday, June 28 2003 Volume 03 : Number 179 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: [chakram-refugees] Con 03 Adrienne (Eve) [IfeRae@aol.com] Re: [chakram-refugees] Renee on Renee's Birthplace ["S. Wilson" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 01:08:35 EDT From: IfeRae@aol.com Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Con 03 Adrienne (Eve) In a message dated 6/26/2003 7:24:32 PM Central Daylight Time, xenatorres@hotmail.com writes: > But also, a LOT of what Eve is going through, > they've already done with Xena. They'd rehash themselves too much. Oh, agreed. My disappointment was more with the "simper/pray" aspect, dragging along behind X&G with that hang-dog expression. I mean, how many other peaceniks had the Destroyer of Nations and Psycho Babe of Cirra in their blood? Eve had a lot of differences that weren't really exploited. True, we got to see some good stuff between her and Varia, but I thought there could've been more meaningful mother-daughter moments between her and Xena or even Gabrielle. There were actually more of those moments between X&G and Varia. Mind you, adult Eve was one of the hardest characters for me to swallow, so I'm not regretting she didn't have more screen time. I just think the screen time she had could've been used more creatively. - -- Ife ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 08:44:21 -0500 From: "S. Wilson" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Renee on Renee's Birthplace I always found it nifty that all of my favorite actresses named Renee came from the same place. I can understand her point of view. Maybe she feels a little like I do about my home town. It was full of hicks, cotton fields and a large state penitentiary. None of the landscape has changed since the 60's. And though it's alot better than when I was there in the 70s, it's still deeply segregated. I could deal with not having to go back, ever, but I still have some good memories between me and my family and friends. S. At 07:34 PM 6/26/2003 -0400, Xwpacolyte@aol.com wrote: >Apparently, Renee Zellweger doesn't think too much of ROC's birthplace. > >This from the June 8, 2003 issue of Parade Magazine: > > >>Q. Someone told me that Renee Zellweger once spelled her name > Zellweiger. >Why did she change it? -- Brian Forman, New York, N.Y. > >A. She didn't. The actress was born Renee Kathleen Zellweger on April 25, >1969, in Houston. At 8, she moved to Katy, Tex., with her Swiss-born father >and Norwegian-born mother. Zellweger once described the region where she was >reared as full of "pig dung, rice fields and cowboys. It wasn't hard to >leave." > So she skedaddled with her real name. << > >XWPacolyte >Cupid and Psyche... Antony and Cleopatra... Xena and Gabrielle. ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 22:21:54 -0400 From: "Cheryl Ande" Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Friend In Need Part 1 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "cr" > Agreed. I thought the extra scenes really did improve the episode. (Not, > I might add, that there was anything wrong with it as screened. IMO). No but once you have the DVD you do miss the additional footage. I just love the fact that Xena is so unconcerned about who is looking for in the beginning that she whistles to let him know where she is. I guess her spidy senses weren't tingling. Also I like that they added that bit where Gabby says Where you go I'm at your side" and that is repeated through out the episode. > > I loved Kenji's little sunshade. I've calculated that if he got up to > 120mph he'd have enough lift to actually take off. The world's first > para-glider. I've just remembered what else it reminded me of - 'The > Prisoner' - amongst the many enigmatic things about that series was the > penny-farthing bicycle with a little awning over it that appeared in the end > titles. Yeah and I love how Gabby has to dodge when he bows. > > > When finally her master > > dies she asks Xena to take her with her and teach her everything she knows. > > Xena claims Akemi, as a victor's prize but there is the unsettling thought > > that Akemi is the real victor here. > > Is that comment hindsight? ;) Probably. When you rewatch an episode you never can recapture that first viewing experience. So when you suddenly have an "insightful" revelation you are never sure it just came to you or you heard somewhere else and just remembered it. > > > "It's ... really pretty". LL in hindsight thought Xena would really say > "What is it?" But I think Xena was genuinely touched by the gesture and, > even though she had no idea what it was, she was being kind/polite to Akemi. Lucy didn't thing Xena would have said it was pretty but I think Xena doesn't quite know what to do so saying it was pretty probably seemed as good a way as any to react. Certain not to hurt the girl's feelings at least. > > > This is what Lucy thought 'outed' Xena, IIRC. That Xena 'confessed' to > Gabby about Akemi, and therefore Xena and Gabs must have had a steady > relationship. (At least, I *think* this is what Lucy's saying in the > commentary. > LL: See we have for years been playing these characters as if they're.... > > LL: ... all of a sudden we're coming up and going 'Yup. I had a former > girlfriend... > > LL: ... like it's just an accepted fact that our characters are gay, ) > > I don't see it that way at all, though, myself, I think LL's reading too much > into it. Although I see X & G as a couple I don't quite know why the penny suddenly dropped for LL at this point. Akemi breaking Xena's heart may seem like a confession of love but certainly after you hear the rest of Akemi's story any one who was involved in this tragedy would have had their heart broken - it doesn't mean loved Akemi in a romantic way. I think actually Lucy never quite understood Xena's attraction of feelings for Akemi so she thought of it as romantic love. Should have called me I have a whole theory about why Xena loved Akemi that went beyond the sexual or romantic (g). > > > > That was cool. Calling Xena's bluff. Akemi may have been sure of her > ground but even so, that took a *lot* of nerve. She certainly didn't lack > courage. It also, I think, added to Xena's respect for her. Oh yes I think that gesture on Akemi's part really got to Xena. Here was some who was as much as gambler as Xena was. > > That interruption was most disconcerting. "Shut up Gabs, this is Xena's > story, don't interrupt!" And we had to wait another ten minutes for the > next installment in the Akemi saga.... Yes that was what the interruption was for - to interrupt the narrative because we have just landed at Haguchi. > > > OK, re-watching it - Akemi is tense and nervous but controlling herself > really well. Masterful acting by Michelle Ang, IMO. I haven't talked much about the acting yet but Michelle Ang is just remarkable. From the commentary I learned she was only 17 when she played this part and she brought so much maturity to it. After FIN I watched a few times on the NZ show The Tribe and although she didn't seem to have a large part in the series when I saw it, she brought a lot of authority to that role also. She should have a great career if she continues to act. > . > > I'm afraid I just saw that as rather corny and a bit too circus-like, and > also I had problems with one water tank being enough to extinguish a whole > town. And besides, why did putting the fire out mean defeat for the > attackers? Surely they didn't *need* the fire in order to win? Oh you just don't like it because it was Gabby's idea. I'll pay no attention this. (g) > > There was a really odd bit of lighting there. The orange paper screen with > a painted moon behind Akemi is cut through from behind by Xena, and as Xena > emerges through the hole, it's as if lights go up outside and we can see > right through the surrounding paper to the blue-lit courtyard buildings > outside. Actually I'm sure that's what happened on-set - they brought up > the blue lights 'outside' - but of course that shouldn't have happened 'in > the story'. Maybe it's supposed to be the moon coming out from behind a > cloud, but it looks very odd. I'll have to look again at the scene. Perhaps lighting up the courtyard was necessary so the audience can see where Akemi is headed after her father dies. > > > TPTB certainly caught me by surprise there. And I didn't recognize > 'father' as Yodoshi, btw, till later. Probably because of Yodoshi make-up. The make-up made his look older than he did in the scene where he is killed. Interestingly enough Rob seemed to have second thoughts about the heavy make-up but Lucy like the contrast between him and the pristine Akemi. > > > That was a magnificent death scene. And Akemi could always surprise Xena. Yes just wonderful. Akemi is so centered - so calm while Xena just spins out control. Again I have to say I have always seen Xena as a very emotional character. Although she hides behind the warrior mask I really believe Xena wears her heart on her sleeve more than another character in the series. > > > > Only a ghost can > > trap Yodoshi. Xena now understands what she has to do to make thinks right. > > Did Harukata realise the implications of what he was telling her? I think > he did, actually. I don't know. Perhaps since he doesn't seemed surprised when she nods her head and we all know what she is about to do. > . > > XENA Akemi...I know what I must do, but I'm afraid that this day, what's > done may not be undone. > > ... and people complain that the ending came out of nowhere. ;) As I said when there sort of talks about hangin' up the old shootin' iron they might as well as start diggin' the grave. Xena's demise was not just foreshadowed it was particularly shouted from the roof tops. > > > > Xena now alone > > buries her armor like she did years ago in a forest outside of Potedeia; > > after this day she won 't need them. > > ... and people complain that the ending came out of nowhere. ;) > Didn't that just scream "Full circle"? Rob said this was last minute addition. He wanted that full circle. Both scenes announce that something very drastic was going to change for Xena. In Potedeia it was meeting Gabrielle and her real journey towards toward her redemption - now we are seeing the completion of that journey. > > Actually, that was a most emotional moment for me. There was such an air of > finality about it. (And of course it *was* the final ep, and I knew from > spoiler leakage, notwithstanding my strongest efforts, that Xena got killed > - though not when, or how, or that it was permanent). Interesting, that > she didn't bury the chacky. Which she did in Sins Of The Past. Of course there Xena was giving up her warrior ways, briefly, here she was still a warrior and she needed her best weapon. Also perhaps she was thinking that she would pass it on the Gabrielle. > > > Interestingly, this time (for the first time in the series?) Xena shooting a > bow looks convincing. Better editing, maybe, so we don't see how slow the > arrow is or how slack the bowstring is. Oh, there was one other time they > got it right - when Xena shot Callisto in Maternal Instincts. We saw the > arrow hit, *then* we saw Xena holding the bow. But wasn't the bow really wrong. It's been a long time since I was involved in archery but wasn't she firing a compound bow - a rather new invention. Yes ago when I was shooting as a kid only a very few people had such bows but now they have are much more common aver sophisticated. > > > She leaps from the trees shooting and then takes on the > > troops one on one. She disarms them and kicks their swords into the air; > > one barely misses the general, Morimoto. He has had enough. > > ... the drummers are winding up into a good rhythm..... > > (A number of these scenes were extras on the DVD, IIRC) Yes the fight scene is much more effective. In the DVD Xena comes much better - you can tell now that the arrow barrage is the only way to stop her. > > That was a magnificent final battle, IMO. Even if it was one Xena expected > to lose. Yep the old gal did herself proud. > > > apparently loves Xena for her stillness and her connection to the universe. > > Akemi actually courts her with gifts (the katana) > > Well, *that* gift Xena had to take for herself :) Well it was the thought that counted. > > > Nicely put. And one can see why it had such an impression on Xena. > Up until then, Xena had, I think, only had one big failure, and that was > Caesar. We don't know quite how she and Lao Ma parted company, probably > acrimoniously after she tried to kill Ming junior, but I'm sure she could > rationalise that as a difference of opinion with Lao Ma. But Akemi's death > put Xena through the emotional wringer. Having to kill Akemi (because Akemi > left her no option), then failing utterly to give her the decent burial that > was Akemi's last wish - how *do* you make amends to someone who's dead? > That would be why Xena was so ready to go to Japa at the mention of Akemi's > name, in fact she'd jump at the chance. It also explains why Xena *never* > mentioned Akemi to Gabrielle - there are some things too painful to tell > anybody without a good reason. Actually I think Xena sees herself as a failure quite often. She failed Lyceus, Milia and in many ways La Mao. Young has enough of an ego to overcome each failure but I think Akemi just through over the edge. > > I'd say that Xena *did* have feelings for Borias, for example. But she > didn't trust herself enough to let those feelings express themselves. I think she did love Borias on some level but as you said she doesn't trust herself or her love to commit to it. In fact we see her continually running from any one who reacts to her with real honest affection or regard. She not only pushes Borias aside but she rejects Cyanes's offer of friendship. The she gives up Solan and yes I do believe she does do it save the child but also I think the love she feels for him frightens her. Here is just another person she will fail and get killed. The with Odin and the valkarie she had a chance to again to find a home and perhaps love but she deliberately ruins it. It is only after Hercules shows her that some she loves will not betray her or die does she start to trust again. That is when she forms her attachment to Gabrielle but the fear of betrayal and failure is often manifested in that relationship. The 3rd seasons deals with her fear of betrayal . She discovers that love is indeed dangerous but she has the strength to forgive Gabrielle's betrayal and realizing that what seems to be betrayal by someone is actually their own fear being manifested. Xena struggles to understand Gabrielle and thus can move beyond her fear. The 4th season then deals with Xena's fear that she can't protect some one she loves. With the vision of the crucifixation before her she tries to abandon Gabrielle to save her. When the worst happens she finds that Gabrielle doesn't blame and doesn't see at Xena's failure. I think at that point Xena may come to realize that all those she failed in the past - Lyceus, Borias, Akemi, etc. never blamed her either so she moves beyond that fear too What I particularly liked about the backstory of FIN was the fact it did fit so neatly into the story of Young Xena. Up to this point her story was always told linearly. The Debt led to AITST, to Past Imperfect to The Rhinegold and The Ring. This story is now inserted between The Debt and AITST and suddenly some mysteries are solved about that episode. Not only do we see Xena starting to reject love and friendship but I think suddenly we can play with the idea that Alti knew about Japa in some way. She gives Xena her young apprentice, surrogate Akemi, someone who can remind Xena of that lost love. Then the girl gets killed then in the land of the dead the girl rejects Xena - saying she killed her soul. Perhaps this is Xena's worse nightmare coming true - does she hear Akemi saying that to her - accusing of her giving stupidly giving her the means to get her killed and then failing to give her a soul it proper rest. I'm probably reaching here but it just fits so well! > That was, indeed, *the* battle of the series - as it should be. That was > the only possible way Xena could die - fighting against overwhelming odds, > *and* by a deliberate choice on her part, not a miscalculation. She knew > she was going to get killed, that's what she was there for, but being Xena, > she wasn't about to just let it happen. Yeah there was some discussion as to why Xena didn't just kill herself. Xena had a lot of priority here. Yes she had to dies but she also had to make sure Morimoto no longer was threat to Haguchi. Xena economical as ever did it all with one great battle. CherylA ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 22:57:44 -0400 From: Cousin Liz Subject: [chakram-refugees] Yahoo & Spam Can someone enlighten me, please? I have not been getting any yahoo email for a couple of days now, though I only took note of it today. I went to yahoo and hit the button to reactivate my email, but nothing's happened. So, I called my isp. According to the tech I talked to, some company called Osiris(sp?) has placed Yahoo on their black list. And my isp has now blocked all Yahoo email from getting through. They won't unblock them until Yahoo clears up their problem with this Osiris company. Supposedly Yahoo is allowing SPAM according to the tech. In the meantime, I don't get my Yahoo mailing list email delivered. Pisser. - -- Cousin Liz eas01@fast.net Soulmates Xena Dinosaur Bards http://cousinliz.com ========================================================= This has been a message to the chakram-refugees list. To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@smoe.org with "unsubscribe chakram-refugees" in the message body. Contact meth@smoe.org with any questions or problems. ========================================================= ------------------------------ End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #179 **************************************