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Subject: chakram-refugees-digest V3 #178
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chakram-refugees-digest     Friday, June 27 2003     Volume 03 : Number 178



                               Today's Subjects:
                               -----------------
  Re: [chakram-refugees] watching Xener                      [IfeRae@aol.com]
  Re: [chakram-refugees] Friend In Need Part 1               [IfeRae@aol.com]
  Re: [chakram-refugees] Con 03 Adrienne (Eve)  ["Xena Torres" <xenatorres@h]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:51:32 EDT
From: IfeRae@aol.com
Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] watching Xener

In a message dated 6/26/03 3:00:57 AM Central Daylight Time, 
fsktl@aurora.uaf.edu writes:

<< > KTL wrote:
 
 >  And apparently, I shall stay doomed for the rest of my natural borned 
life.
 >  How kewl is that? >>
 >
 > Only for the rest of your natural borned life, KT?  Why I'm planning on
 > carrying this obsession on over into my next life too!!  <g>
 
 
 But won't those VCR tapes melt in hell? >>


And KT should know.  Bwhahahahaha!  Okay, fine.  I'll be there right along 
with you both.  You think the DVDs will hold up better?

- -- Ife
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Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:51:30 EDT
From: IfeRae@aol.com
Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Friend In Need Part 1

In a message dated 6/26/03 6:46:22 AM Central Daylight Time, cr@orcon.net.nz 
writes:

 On Thursday 26 June 2003 18:03, IfeRae@aol.com wrote:
 
  > When I first heard this, I wondered if Gabs' scrolls had made it to Japa.
 
 Huh?   This was long before Xena met Gabs, remember..... >>

LOL!!!!  Gods, I'm so used to attributing questionable/mysterious knowledge 
to the scrolls, I honestly forgot there was a time before the scrolls.  Ah, 
those "senior moments."  Never know when they might strike.  <g>
 
  > Boy, you sure are catching a lot of things that didn't hit home with me,
 > even tho I've watched the various versions of AFIN countless times.  So
 > Borias questioned the ransome thing, eh?
 
 Oh yes.   You're obviously not paying attention.   You are sentenced to 
watch 
 FIN *again*.          :) >>

<sigh>  Okay.  Somebody (in addition to Cheryl, of course) has to do it.  I 
think I can force myself into it.  Heh.
 
 << Well, I think, in The Debt or its surrounding episodes, Gabby was on some 
 sort of control-freak crusade to remake Xena in her own image.    To force 
 her own moral world-view on Xena.   I found it... irritating.   :)    It 
 wasn't so much Lao Ma that Gabs was jealous of, as the fact that Xena might 
 actually have ideas of her own.    IMO. >>

Hmm, not sure I agree with that assessment of Gabby's motives.  I thought it 
was more fear of Xena backsliding on her own moral goals, but without 
understanding that Xena's honor incorporated paying debts in all sorts of ways.
 
 > Yeah, that "sacred trust" thing surprised me.  As I recall, Xena threatened
 > M'Lila in order for learn the pinch.  Maybe they later entwined little
 > fingers and promised to share it only with someone reeely speshul?
 
 Errrm, M'Lila died protecting Xena.  I should think that would make 
 *anything* M'Lila taught Xena, rather sacred in Xena's eyes. >>

Okay, I'll buy that.

 > Okay, this was a new bit in the DVD.  Frankly, I was glad it got cut, as I
 > thought it was much more dramatic having their relationship revealed later
 > on.
 
 Hmmmm.   Of course, by the time I saw the DVD, I *knew* what their 
 relationship was, so this point didn't occur to me.   I thought it really 
 gave an additional insight into their relationship.   That Akemi might be 
 Yodoshi's captive, but she was an extremely unwilling one, even to the point 
 of defying him openly. 
 
 It also helped clarify that the attack on Higuchi was at Yodoshi's 
 instigation, and that was why Akemi had finally sent for Xena. >>

Somehow I'd gotten all that originally.  There was one added scene in part 2 
that I found a lot more helpful.
 
<< I just watched Butch Cassidy and in fact the lines were something like:
 "Did you see LaForge out there?"    (LaForge being the most deadly lawman 
 hunting them)
 "Nope"
 "Good, for a moment there I thought we were in trouble".
 
 So, the last line only was the 'tribute'.     Just wanted to get that on the 
 record.   ;) >>

We're here for you.  Glad you feel better now.
 
 
 <<Well, *I* believed Cande's thesis.   I'm just too easy   ;)>>

Riiiight.  But for the record, I like her thesis too.
 
 > Bravo!   I bet RT wishes he'd had you with him to 'splain this to everybody
 > (including Lucy).  I like it better than Caesar's betrayal being what
 > turned her heart to stone.
 
 Hmmm.   Caesar's betrayal was certainly shattering to Xena's world.   Up 
till 
 that point, I think she'd always won.   Now, with Caesar, she's been fooled, 
 she's lost all her power, M'Lila with whom there may (or may not) have been 
a 
 lot of 'subtext' but either way I'm sure Xena was very fond of her - M'Lila 
 saves Xena's life on the beach, gets her to Nicklio, saves Xena's life again 
 in the hut and dies while doing so....   that is surely shattering enough.   
 
 And then, with Akemi, Xena fails again. >>

True.  I think Cande's point is that Akemi seemed to be an "innocent," not 
looking to make Xena the "muscle" in ruling the world or kingdoms.  That Akemi 
seemed to appreciate Xena for herself (which I believe Akemi did) and wanted to 
learn from (rather than try to change or teach) Xena.   That having that 
betrayed was even more cruel (heart-breaking) and unexpected to Xena personally.  
Yes, Xena became more cynical about her future business partners, but still 
engaged in alliances with them.  Akemi's betrayal might have hardened Xena more 
to engagements of the heart and to truly trusting again.
 
  > You give a wonderful synopsis of this, but frankly I think a lot of the
 > credit goes to that young actress.  Without her excellent performance, I'm
 > not sure I would've given much credence to this last-minute rabbit in the
 > hat.  For me, she raised the character above what would have otherwise been
 > a plot device unworthy of the series finale.
 
 Yes, I think much of the credit for Akemi being such a compelling character 
 does go to Michelle Ang, *but* she had to have the material to work with.    
 Akemi shows remarkable courage (IMO), and Michelle 'sells' that really well. 
 
 And it *needed* to be done that well, to account for the fact that Xena fell 
 for Akemi so hard, and to make Akemi worth it  (in *my* view, at least). >>

What Ang did for me was to infuse the character with subtlety and ambiguity 
that gave Akemi's acts of courage signficance compared to the countless other 
acts of courage guest stars exhibited.  I found her to be intriguing, 
interesting, even though I still often wondered why the heck Akemi was the basis for 
the all-important series finale.
 
  >  > Well that's it for now.  I'll let you digest this much for now.  I now
 >  > can
 > >
 > > go
 > > watch FIN again - just call me obsessed.>>
 >
 > *Us* call *you* obsessed?  <snort>  I think not.
 >
 > -- Ife
 
 Pot... kettle... black...    :) >>

My thoughts exactly. <g>

- -- Ife
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:21:48 -0700
From: "Xena Torres" <xenatorres@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [chakram-refugees] Con 03 Adrienne (Eve)

>I also thought Livia/Eve was never used to the character's true dramatic
>potential,

I TOTALLY agree, but the show is XENA: Warrior Princess, not Eve: Former 
Bitch of Rome. To TRULY explore the power of her great character, she'd need 
her own show. Ah, right, that's why we have fan fiction (I'm working on 
Eve's life story myself). But also, a LOT of what Eve is going through, 
they've already done with Xena. They'd rehash themselves too much. It was 
great to see it on a small scale like that GREAT Livia/Eve scene in 
"Haunting" which was a nice remake of the Xena/Dark Xena scene in 
"Dreamworker" but if they rehashed stuff like that EVERYtime we saw Eve, it 
would make Eve boring and dull the show, plus take away from the power of 
the original scenes. Once was great, but any more then that would harm the 
show I think. But what a waste of such a GREAT character!
BATTLE ON XENA!

Xena Torres: Warrior Writer
http://www.geocities.com/bitchofrome

"No glass slipper can quiet the ghosts that haunt a psyche." - Jewel's 
CHASING DOWN THE DAWN=

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End of chakram-refugees-digest V3 #178
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